Can visiting Canadians Open Carry?

Zenov · Jan 28, 2013

Hi folks,
I've been reading your forum quite a bit to try and get as much info as I could about the laws in your fine state. I regularly visit your state to camp on the in-laws lakefront property in Oroville, WA. I'm fairly certain on most of the laws regarding open carry except for one thing. I can't seem to find any concrete answer as to whether visiting Canadians (such as myself) are allowed to open carry their handgun that was brought into the state legally. (All temp import permit etc.) Since it doesn't appear to have a law against it does it fall under the "not illegal means it's legal"? Any info you guys have would be much appreciated. Thank you.

leitung · Jan 28, 2013

Non-Immigrant Aliens (Tourists) are generally not permitted to possess firearms. I believe one exception is to get a valid hunting license in any state. However, in WA I would believe you would need an Alien firearms license as well.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...legally-purchase-and-use-firearms-in-the-usa/

Importing and exporting is another matter altogether. Check with CBP's website, also check with CBSA as well.

CBSA searched my entire car looking for firearms last time I was up there, they thought because my buddy who was coming with me got arrested (not convicted) for criminal threats with a firearm might be bringing a gun with him. I wouldn't think it would be worth the hassle to cross the border with a firearm.

I can understand your position, it sucks living in a country that doesn't respect the basic rights of self defense. If we don't get off our butts and quit electing certain people we will be in the same boat. We got a whole crew of anti gun loons here out to pass laws very similar to what you guys have up there.

I enjoy visiting Canada (trying to get to Montreal this year), I do enjoy a cup of Tim Horton's coffee.

Zenov · Jan 28, 2013

leitung said:
Non-Immigrant Aliens (Tourists) are generally not permitted to possess firearms. I believe one exception is to get a valid hunting license in any state. However, in WA I would believe you would need an Alien firearms license as well.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...legally-purchase-and-use-firearms-in-the-usa/

Thank you for the link. However I believe the alien firearms license is ONLY if you want to purchase a firearm in WA state. I will try and find more info on this tomorrow (after some sleep). My understanding is I can bring my Ruger SR9 once I have an accepted/signed ATF Form 6NIA and a WA state hunting license. Perhaps we could get some more thoughts/info on this if you all would be so kind? Thanks again leitung.

Edit: Found this at the linked website:
Who doesn’t need an alien firearms license?

A permanent resident alien (immigrant alien) with a permanent resident card (green card).
A citizen of Canada or a non-immigrant alien not residing in Washington, who is hunting or participating in trade shows or shooting events while visiting or vacationing here.

http://www.dol.wa.gov/business/firearms/faalienfaq.html

So that covers that question.

leitung · Jan 28, 2013

Then I stand corrected, you won't need a Alien Firearms License.

However, I would be concerned that CBP may ask you what you plan on hunting this time of year with a 9mm pistol.

I'm not a hunter, so I will leave that issue to those who do to clarify and guide you in that regard.

Best of luck and enjoy your visit, if your ever near this area of WA feel free to msg me, i'll see about taking you to the range to shoot some of my collection.

I took a whole group of guys from New Zealand a couple of years back who had never even seen a gun in person out, they had a blast. (Literally)

adam3176 · Jan 28, 2013

We are all humans. I think just because they are from canada does not make them an Alien. The real aliens are in the UK. And i found them. They dont have firearms. They have Ray guns LOL

http://www.youtube.com/user/adam3176?feature=mhee

1245A Defender · Jan 28, 2013

Well,,,!!

Zenov said:
Hi folks,
I've been reading your forum quite a bit to try and get as much info as I could about the laws in your fine state. I regularly visit your state to camp on the in-laws lakefront property in Oroville, WA. I'm fairly certain on most of the laws regarding open carry except for one thing. I can't seem to find any concrete answer as to whether visiting Canadians (such as myself) are allowed to open carry their handgun that was brought into the state legally. (All temp import permit etc.) Since it doesn't appear to have a law against it does it fall under the "not illegal means it's legal"? Any info you guys have would be much appreciated. Thank you.

Not only do I believe that you can Open Carry here in Washington state,,,,
..... BUT,,,,,
I recomend that you apply for your Washington state Concealled Carry Permit!!!

I have scanned 9.41.040,045,050,060,070..... I cant find any reason for you to be prohibited...

EMNofSeattle · Jan 28, 2013

RCW 9.41.175

(2) A citizen of Canada may carry or possess any firearm so long as he or she possesses:

(a) Valid documentation as required for entry into the United States;

(b) If required under federal law, an approved United States department of justice ATF-6 NIA application and permit for temporary importation of firearms and ammunition by nonimmigrant aliens; and

(c)(i) A valid hunting license issued by a state or territory of the United States; or

(ii) An invitation to participate in a trade show or sport shooting event being conducted in this state, another state, or another country that is contiguous with this state.

It appears that a citizen of Canada may legally possess a firearm so long as they legally entered the country.

of course if the Canadian is carrying a pistol they legally brought into the country from Canada, s/he seems to need to keep the import paperwork handy. If they're carrying a gun they borrowed in the US then it seems they're subject to the same requirements as any other Washingtonians, although I don't think a non-resident canadian can get a CPL

EMNofSeattle · Jan 28, 2013

leitung said:
Then I stand corrected, you won't need a Alien Firearms License.

However, I would be concerned that CBP may ask you what you plan on hunting this time of year with a 9mm pistol.

I'm not a hunter, so I will leave that issue to those who do to clarify and guide you in that regard.

Best of luck and enjoy your visit, if your ever near this area of WA feel free to msg me, i'll see about taking you to the range to shoot some of my collection.

I took a whole group of guys from New Zealand a couple of years back who had never even seen a gun in person out, they had a blast. (Literally)

A canadian would have to fill out This form here and fax it to the ATF. They'll either approve or deny.

I met a canadian national in Montana who had a pistol on him, he was competing at the Missoula GSSF match. He told me he travels with a pistol all the time here for competitions, he made it sound like it was relatively easy to get approved as long as the firearm is a non-NFA weapon. But my understanding is all anecdotal so take that with a truckload of salt.

sudden valley gunner · Jan 28, 2013

Yes you can (I am assuming you are legal) I am in Bellingham and often work in Blaine, come join me for coffee sometime.

HK_dave · Jan 28, 2013

so canadians can bring handguns here but we can't take them there? that blows.

i almost crapped my pants about 20 years ago on a trip to vancouver. forgot i had my 9mm in my bag. luckily they didn't search the car... :uhoh:

1245A Defender · Jan 28, 2013

Well,,,

HK_dave said:
so canadians can bring handguns here but we can't take them there? that blows.

i almost crapped my pants about 20 years ago on a trip to vancouver. forgot i had my 9mm in my bag. luckily they didn't search the car... :uhoh:

Thats funny,,, In 1998 I flew home on a jet plane,,,
I Had Flares!!! in my carry on bag!!!

Zenov · Jan 28, 2013

HK_dave said:
so canadians can bring handguns here but we can't take them there? that blows.

i almost crapped my pants about 20 years ago on a trip to vancouver. forgot i had my 9mm in my bag. luckily they didn't search the car... :uhoh:

Haha alright then. I'll start off with some reciprocal info for you guys about bringing your weapons here. It is indeed possible. However, there seems to be considerably more red tape than required for me to see you guys. If you go to the linked page and click on "Visitors to Canada" it gives you the info. Note: You guys can get a Canadian Firearms License, however it requires you complete a 2 day course here in Canada so that kind of blows. It also only seems to save you filling out the form for your non-restricted guns (rifles. Note: AK's are completely banned here and AR's are considered restricted.) If anyone wants info on courses in a certain area I would be happy to find it for you but since you can't carry here and the rules are ridiculous I doubt you guys would bother (I wouldn't). You would also have to get pinned magazines. (5 rounds for semi-auto rifles and shotguns and 10 rounds for semi-auto pistols. Anything else has no limit).

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/pub/bsf5044-eng.html#P010

Next: Thank you for the form EN I actually filled this out and e-mailed it yesterday. I was a bit vague on some items (such as manufacturer and quantity of ammo) as it is valid for a year I will likely have various manufacturers of ammo and quantities so we'll see if they think that's ok.

Thank you guys for the offers of range trips and meeting for coffee. It would be great to do both at some point. I frequently am in Blaine at Mailboxes International to pick up my Amazon shopping and grab some fuel. i would be happy to bring my pistol once i get my form approved and OC with my American cousins.

Leitung: I rarely travel that far south but I have been thinking lately of going to do a weekend in Seattle or some such. They advertise frequently on the radio about weekend deals for Canadians. Should I decide to do that I would be extatic to take you up on your offer.

I also e-mailed Washington department of justice I think it was (same place i found the info on alien license in WA) to ask about getting CPL as a Canadian. The info I can find so far says you need to be a US citizen for that but we wait to hear from the horses mouth.

Thanks for all your help guys. Great group and I honestly love the American carry culture. I am ridiculously jealous of you guys.

EMNofSeattle · Jan 28, 2013

Zenov said:
Haha alright then. I'll start off with some reciprocal info for you guys about bringing your weapons here. It is indeed possible. However, there seems to be considerably more red tape than required for me to see you guys. If you go to the linked page and click on "Visitors to Canada" it gives you the info. Note: You guys can get a Canadian Firearms License, however it requires you complete a 2 day course here in Canada so that kind of blows. It also only seems to save you filling out the form for your non-restricted guns (rifles. Note: AK's are completely banned here and AR's are considered restricted.) If anyone wants info on courses in a certain area I would be happy to find it for you but since you can't carry here and the rules are ridiculous I doubt you guys would bother (I wouldn't). You would also have to get pinned magazines. (5 rounds for semi-auto rifles and shotguns and 10 rounds for semi-auto pistols. Anything else has no limit).

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/pub/bsf5044-eng.html#P010

Next: Thank you for the form EN I actually filled this out and e-mailed it yesterday. I was a bit vague on some items (such as manufacturer and quantity of ammo) as it is valid for a year I will likely have various manufacturers of ammo and quantities so we'll see if they think that's ok.

Thank you guys for the offers of range trips and meeting for coffee. It would be great to do both at some point. I frequently am in Blaine at Mailboxes International to pick up my Amazon shopping and grab some fuel. i would be happy to bring my pistol once i get my form approved and OC with my American cousins.

Leitung: I rarely travel that far south but I have been thinking lately of going to do a weekend in Seattle or some such. They advertise frequently on the radio about weekend deals for Canadians. Should I decide to do that I would be extatic to take you up on your offer.

I also e-mailed Washington department of justice I think it was (same place i found the info on alien license in WA) to ask about getting CPL as a Canadian. The info I can find so far says you need to be a US citizen for that but we wait to hear from the horses mouth.

Thanks for all your help guys. Great group and I honestly love the American carry culture. I am ridiculously jealous of you guys.

I'm trying to track down the info for you.
although I'm worried I may have provided bad info for you, looking back at RCW 9.41. 175

(1) A nonimmigrant alien, who is not a resident of Washington or a citizen of Canada, may carry or possess any firearm without having first obtained an alien firearm license if the nonimmigrant alien possesses:

(a) A valid passport and visa showing he or she is in the country legally;

(b) If required under federal law, an approved United States department of justice ATF-6 NIA application and permit for temporary importation of firearms and ammunition by nonimmigrant aliens; and

(c)(i) A valid hunting license issued by a state or territory of the United States; or

(ii) An invitation to participate in a trade show or sport shooting event being conducted in this state, another state, or another country that is contiguous with this state.

(2) A citizen of Canada may carry or possess any firearm so long as he or she possesses:

(a) Valid documentation as required for entry into the United States;

(b) If required under federal law, an approved United States department of justice ATF-6 NIA application and permit for temporary importation of firearms and ammunition by nonimmigrant aliens; and

(c)(i) A valid hunting license issued by a state or territory of the United States; or

(ii) An invitation to participate in a trade show or sport shooting event being conducted in this state, another state, or another country that is contiguous with this state.

(3) For purposes of subsections (1) and (2) of this section, the firearms may only be possessed for the purpose of using them in the hunting of game while such persons are in the act of hunting, or while on a hunting trip, or while such persons are competing in a bona fide trap or skeet shoot or any other organized contest where rifles, pistols, or shotguns are used. Nothing in this section shall be construed to allow aliens to hunt or fish in this state without first having obtained a regular hunting or fishing license.

with that language it seems general carry may not be allowed. is there someone with better knowledge of the law then me who can figure this out?

Then RCW 9.41.173 applies Alien firearm licenses to a "nonimmigrant alien residing in Washington state" how are you a "non-immigrant" but residing in the state....

it gets even more confusing

The application shall contain questions about the applicant's eligibility under RCW 9.41.040 and federal law to possess a pistol, the applicant's place of birth, and whether the applicant is a United States citizen. If the applicant is not a United States citizen, the applicant must provide the applicant's country of citizenship, United States issued alien number or admission number, and the basis on which the applicant claims to be exempt from federal prohibitions on firearm possession by aliens. The applicant shall not be required to produce a birth certificate or other evidence of citizenship. A person who is not a citizen of the United States shall, if applicable, meet the additional requirements of RCW 9.41.173 and produce proof of compliance with RCW 9.41.173 upon application. The license may be in triplicate or in a form to be prescribed by the department of licensing.

what federal prohibitions exist for aliens? the only ones i'm familiar with are for illegal aliens or people who have renounced US citizenship.

it seems you may be in a pickle...

1245A Defender · Jan 28, 2013

Well,,,

EMN,,,, You know I am retired,,, I was not spending any, of all, of none of my time making my post about carrying and applying for a CPL...

HOW can you spend soooo much time and effort trying to advise this guy???
But claim that as a poor collage student,, you dont have time to work??
Or to get a JOB???
What The Fjuck???

I might be right... Just Shut the Fujk Up for a while!!

OK,,, Im sorry,,, I have been rude...
But think about doing something.. anything... of real value,,, with your very inteligent.. probable,,possible,, abilities!!!!

EMNofSeattle · Jan 28, 2013

1245A Defender said:
EMN,,,, You know I am retired,,, I was not spending any, of all, of none of my time making my post about carrying and applying for a CPL...

HOW can you spend soooo much time and effort trying to advise this guy???
But claim that as a poor collage student,, you dont have time to work??
Or to get a JOB???
What The Fjuck???

I might be right... Just Shut the Fujk Up for a while!!

OK,,, Im sorry,,, I have been rude...
But think about doing something.. anything... of real value,,, with your very inteligent.. probable,,possible,, abilities!!!!

for your information I've been gone all weekend filing applications and have job interviews later this week. in addition to applying to volunteer several places I may be interested in working. It takes me maybe ten minutes to look up the laws and try to answer a question. Also my college courseload is online, which means I can run my forums in the background and check them every 20 minutes or so, and in case you wish to complain about that, my last several quarters my grades have been between 3.5 and 4.0.

And I didn't mean to contradict anything you said or accused you of being wrong, I happened to catch that while reviewing the statute and got worried for our guest who was just told carrying a gun here is fine. maybe it is, but I don't want to feel responsible if someone gets in trouble because they followed anonymous advice on the internet. I don't get pleasure in setting people up.

Zenov · Jan 28, 2013

EMN: Thanks for looking that up. The wording you highlighted at the bottom does seem to imply I would not be allowed to carry it unless I am currently in the act of hunting or target shooting. Very tough wording though. Hopefully it turns out I can apply for a CPL and as such can ignore most of that. We shall see what my e-mail says when they reply.

Defender: That was a confusing and difficult to read post. Not to mention rude. EMN's personal life is none of your business just like yours is none of his. If he knows where to look up WA state laws it likely took him less than 5-10 mins to post that. I ask that if you continue to post in this thread it be constructive and respectful.

EMNofSeattle · Jan 28, 2013

Zenov said:
SNIP
Defender: That was a confusing and difficult to read post. Not to mention rude. EMN's personal life is none of your business just like yours is none of his. If he knows where to look up WA state laws it likely took him less than 5-10 mins to post that. I ask that if you continue to post in this thread it be constructive and respectful.

It's ok, Defender and I know each other in person, he's a friend of mine. He means no offense, I hope.

Zenov · Jan 28, 2013

EMNofSeattle said:
It's ok, Defender and I know each other in person, he's a friend of mine. He means no offense, I hope.

Sorry I wasn't aware of that. If that's the kind of banter you guys have in your friendship then carry on I suppose.

1245A Defender · Jan 28, 2013

And,,,

It is true,,,, Emn, is Eric,,,, I care about his future and his future emplyment.
We are friends and I like him,,, I am old enough to be his grand father,,, and I often treat him like I am....
I talk to him in a very staight way, and pull no punches.

This does not take away the things I have told you,,, the OP,,,, Whashington is very nice to out of towners...

Zenov · Jan 28, 2013

1245A Defender said:
It is true,,,, Emn, is Eric,,,, I care about his future and his future emplyment.
We are friends and I like him,,, I am old enough to be his grand father,,, and I often treat him like I am....
I talk to him in a very staight way, and pull no punches.

This does not take away the things I have told you,,, the OP,,,, Whashington is very nice to out of towners...

I am frequently in Washington and have always been treated with respect and kindness. That was never really a concern.

I find the below quote interesting. It is from washington state department of licensing. As I read it, if I get a WA state hunting license I should then be able to apply for a concealed carry permit as it says here canadians are excempt from requiring an alien firearms license. Does anyone else read it this way? I am too anxious to wait for Department of Licensing to reply. lol.

Who doesn’t need an alien firearms license?
A permanent resident alien (immigrant alien) with a permanent resident card (green card).
A citizen of Canada or a non-immigrant alien not residing in Washington, who is hunting or participating in trade shows or shooting events while visiting or vacationing here.
How long is my alien firearms license valid?
The license will be valid in the state of Washington for 2 years from the date it was issued.

Can I apply for a concealed pistol license if I have an alien firearms license?
Yes.

Can visiting Canadians Open Carry?

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