ProShooter
Regular Member
I understand. I know its normal to paint with a broad brush here. I've seen some less than professional folks too. Sad, but it happens in any line of work.
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Man dies after altercation with security guard at VCU Medical Center
- Thread starter Grapeshot
- Start date
I understand. I know its normal to paint with a broad brush here. I've seen some less than professional folks too. Sad, but it happens in any line of work.
sidestreet
Regular Member
Peter, Proshooter, you're both right…,
Management has or should have a lot to do with it. When a security company has so many employees that management cannot have access or ability to devote time to regularly inspect, monitor, and update it's employees, they need to have on site supervisors close enough to do just that. Those supervisors need to be busy, constantly, actively observing and evaluating his or her charges for a number of things. This is much easier said than accomplished.
I don't know how LEW & Associates is set up. Don't know their SOP's. Don't know VCU's SOP's. What I can say is this, I was ordered to attend a two day Unarmed Security Officer class, in accordance with Virginia DCJS (Department of Criminal Justice Services for those not familiar with the acronym) standards taught by Mr. Lloyd Woods. To his credit, Mr. Woods was very professional, covered the course material completely, and had in my opinion a complete understanding of the course and the ability to communicate the lesson plans properly, no subject was cut short, "glanced over", or diminished in any effort to "get out of class" early or take an extended "lunch".
With that said, it is sometimes very hard to determine just when an employee may suddenly go off of plan, ignore training, and defy good common sense…, not always impossible though. This is where the strength of management plays its most important part. To observe and identify behavior that is inconsistent with training, SOP's, or good common sense, and to bring it to the attention of both the employee and the employer for corrective action, which can be handled in a number of different ways. As I said, hard, not easy, but also not impossible, and I believe that's where the strength (or weakness) of such a company can be found, in their willingness to be vigilant and effective in their duties. I would also like to say that the character of the company should start from the top down.
I would also like to say that not all necessary training can be accomplished in a classroom. It is my opinion only that in order to become a professional Security Officer (not a Guard), one has to have training, but also a significant level of maturity and life experience and the ability to relate those types of lessons learned in order to follow training, observe SOP's, follow a safe course , and bring any situation to a peaceful, orderly, or favorable conclusion.
While I agree that the sooner we have transparency of a situation, the better, I also understand the desire to investigate thoroughly before "stating" anything "absolutely". I generally subscribe to the "two week" rule. That being my personal observance that an outsider generally has to wait about two weeks to start getting a clear picture of most situations where speculation and inaccurate, or biased reporting have had their run.
Just my 2 cents worth.
sidestreet
Jeremiah 29 vs. 11-13
we are not equal, we will never be equal, but we must be relentless.
Management has or should have a lot to do with it. When a security company has so many employees that management cannot have access or ability to devote time to regularly inspect, monitor, and update it's employees, they need to have on site supervisors close enough to do just that. Those supervisors need to be busy, constantly, actively observing and evaluating his or her charges for a number of things. This is much easier said than accomplished.
I don't know how LEW & Associates is set up. Don't know their SOP's. Don't know VCU's SOP's. What I can say is this, I was ordered to attend a two day Unarmed Security Officer class, in accordance with Virginia DCJS (Department of Criminal Justice Services for those not familiar with the acronym) standards taught by Mr. Lloyd Woods. To his credit, Mr. Woods was very professional, covered the course material completely, and had in my opinion a complete understanding of the course and the ability to communicate the lesson plans properly, no subject was cut short, "glanced over", or diminished in any effort to "get out of class" early or take an extended "lunch".
With that said, it is sometimes very hard to determine just when an employee may suddenly go off of plan, ignore training, and defy good common sense…, not always impossible though. This is where the strength of management plays its most important part. To observe and identify behavior that is inconsistent with training, SOP's, or good common sense, and to bring it to the attention of both the employee and the employer for corrective action, which can be handled in a number of different ways. As I said, hard, not easy, but also not impossible, and I believe that's where the strength (or weakness) of such a company can be found, in their willingness to be vigilant and effective in their duties. I would also like to say that the character of the company should start from the top down.
I would also like to say that not all necessary training can be accomplished in a classroom. It is my opinion only that in order to become a professional Security Officer (not a Guard), one has to have training, but also a significant level of maturity and life experience and the ability to relate those types of lessons learned in order to follow training, observe SOP's, follow a safe course , and bring any situation to a peaceful, orderly, or favorable conclusion.
While I agree that the sooner we have transparency of a situation, the better, I also understand the desire to investigate thoroughly before "stating" anything "absolutely". I generally subscribe to the "two week" rule. That being my personal observance that an outsider generally has to wait about two weeks to start getting a clear picture of most situations where speculation and inaccurate, or biased reporting have had their run.
Just my 2 cents worth.
sidestreet
Jeremiah 29 vs. 11-13
we are not equal, we will never be equal, but we must be relentless.
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Very well said Sidestreet.
+2...
Sidestreet also touched on something we've discussed often. The security officer vs the security guard. There is a big difference.
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ProShooter
Regular Member
Well said, sidestreet.
I know Mr. Woods through a different previous employment. My opinion of him is considerably different than your experience.
sidestreet
Regular Member
Believe me Proshooter…,
I think I understand pretty much where you're coming from. In a previous "life", I had an instructor (actually two instructors) that was/were extremely well liked and held in most high regards by practically by everyone in the occupation, in fact I felt pretty much the same way until I had a couple of unfortunate (?) "opportunities" to actually see and witness what a dishonorable man he was/men they were. When the elder man passed away, many of my colleagues heaped praise upon praise on this individual, and eulogized him in so many kind ways. When I was asked, I declined and said only that, "I knew a different man". That was about as much respect as I could muster.
Is that somewhere near the target Proshooter?
sidestreet
Jeremiah 29 vs. 11-13
we are not equal, we will never be equal, but we must be relentless.
I think I understand pretty much where you're coming from. In a previous "life", I had an instructor (actually two instructors) that was/were extremely well liked and held in most high regards by practically by everyone in the occupation, in fact I felt pretty much the same way until I had a couple of unfortunate (?) "opportunities" to actually see and witness what a dishonorable man he was/men they were. When the elder man passed away, many of my colleagues heaped praise upon praise on this individual, and eulogized him in so many kind ways. When I was asked, I declined and said only that, "I knew a different man". That was about as much respect as I could muster.
Is that somewhere near the target Proshooter?
sidestreet
Jeremiah 29 vs. 11-13
we are not equal, we will never be equal, but we must be relentless.
We are, in many ways, what other people perceive us to be. It is that which determines the level and quality of interpersonal relationships.
ProShooter
Regular Member
Yeah, you hit the 10 ring with that one.
Repeater
Regular Member
Family ejected from court after protesting $15K Bond
Plenty of emotions abound; completely understandable.
Protesting family members removed from courtroom as judge sets $15,000 bond in pharmacy death
Plenty of emotions abound; completely understandable.
Protesting family members removed from courtroom as judge sets $15,000 bond in pharmacy death
"Brown was at the pharmacy in his capacity has an unarmed guard working for LEW & Associates, a Richmond-based private contractor."
"LEW & Associates said in a Thursday statement that Brown has been dismissed from the company, after being suspended earlier."
http://www.richmond.com/news/local/crime/article_16120594-e09c-5821-92e0-ffe39d6cff55.html
Looks like Brown's former employer (LEW & Associates) is trying to distance themselves from him. Perhaps he violated training, policy or post orders and was dismissed for cause.
Still think we shall see LEW holding a bad hand if any civil action is taken by the family.
"LEW & Associates said in a Thursday statement that Brown has been dismissed from the company, after being suspended earlier."
http://www.richmond.com/news/local/crime/article_16120594-e09c-5821-92e0-ffe39d6cff55.html
Looks like Brown's former employer (LEW & Associates) is trying to distance themselves from him. Perhaps he violated training, policy or post orders and was dismissed for cause.
Still think we shall see LEW holding a bad hand if any civil action is taken by the family.
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user
Accomplished Advocate
Last time I checked, MCV was an "authority", not strictly speaking part of VCU, and thus not covered by VCU's rule-making power, and subject as a "locality" to Va. Code sxn 15.2-915. I wouldn't risk arrest by going in there with a gun, but I'd be in favor of filing suit against them to make them stop. Unless of course, organizational things have changed since I last checked up on them when Grapeshot was assaulted by the rentacop for taking a cigarette break.
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That seems to be a pattern with private security. In Skids case the guard that started it all was gone the next week. Great people to work for.
Almost every unarmed security officer (or guard) is there to observe and report. They do not, by virtue of their position, have powers of arrest. Armed security officers have a limited power of arrest - see http://www.dcjs.virginia.gov/pss/faq/catView.cfm?category=Armed Security Officer/Courier .
Last time I looked a person assigned as an unarmed security officer, even though they have certification as an armed officer, is limited to only those powers of unarmed security officers. That could well have changed. Sadly, the DCJS web site is not very search friendly, especially when looking for the policy/regulation governing such things. Best I can get to today is #20 at http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?000+reg+6VAC20-171-320
This does not, of course, eliminate the power of a citizen's arrest. I'm pretty sure most folks are not aware of how narrowly citizen's arrest in restricted in Virginia - http://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/19.2-100/
And yes, if LEW & Associates can show the guy acted outside his registration and post orders they can claim he was not working for them at the time of the incident as he was only hired to act within his registration and post orders. Va Dept of Corrections used that ploy, along wit charging guards with fraud for accepting pay during the period they were acting outside policy/ regulation and/or post orders, as a way to get out of being a defendant in a prisoner's law suit.
stay safe.