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I am stun to hear that was denied from purchasing a handgun

rcawdor57

Campaign Veteran
Joined
May 18, 2009
Messages
1,643
Location
Wisconsin, USA
If Your CWL Application Is Denied, You Forfeit The $50 For The Application...

Not true, they will return the check to you uncashed from what I have been told. There are sites that do back ground checks but I have no idea what charges you may incur.

From the Wisconsin CWL application form, 1st page:

All incomplete applications will be returned along with the payment.
Any accepted application where the applicant is found to be ineligible for
a concealed weapon license will be denied and the payment will not be
returned.

Link: http://www.doj.state.wi.us/dles/cib/ConcealedCarry/concealed-carry-application-11-11.pdf
 

Hacken

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
28
Location
Milwaukee
A couple of thoughts:

Gander may have been misleading you. It is common here in Louisiana for the big box sporting goods stores to tell people that they have been DENIED when they have only been DELAYED. They simply don't want to be bothered holding a gun that they might sell today until the delay is cleared.

I would go back to Gander and ask for a copy of the NICS check transaction number and the denial number. Then get a copy of the NICS background check appeal form and send it in to find out why you were denied.

It's possible Gander might off been BS me or did something wrong. I called the state of WISC of firearm justice and they told me did Gander gave me a denial number and i said no. i call gander store back and the cust.service told me we don't do that?.. anyways update i just purchased my criminal report thru the state of wisconsin https://wi-recordcheck.org/cc/html/index.html and like i've always been right along my record is CLEAN .
 

bmwguy11

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
461
Location
wisconsin
So the felony you were convicted of as a minor was expunged? You have to determine if you failed the federal or state background check. Then from there you can contact the appropriate agency to determine why.
 

Hacken

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
28
Location
Milwaukee
Maybe try again at a different store....(?)

Outdoorsman1

Cabelas next time


So the felony you were convicted of as a minor was expunged? You have to determine if you failed the federal or state background check. Then from there you can contact the appropriate agency to determine why.

You know I just hope it's clear. I assume if the state of WISC criminal background check shows no criminal records for me and it is even listed as clean then it should be good. Who knows maybe Gander is just being lazy on their part..
 

Captain Nemo

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
1,029
Location
Somewhere, Wisconsin, USA
The NICS system is used to check if the applicant is prohibited from possessing a firearm because of a court order(175.35(at)(at)), not for a criminal backround check. Wisconsin has opted to use the DoJ data base for restrictions (175.35(at)(at).

Under s. 175.35(2g)(d)(d) the DoJ is required to supply court issued prohibitions to the NICS. It is also ordered to notify NICS if the court order is removed. WI uses NICS to determine if any active court restrictions are on record as reported from WI DoJ to NICS. Whether or not NICS counts that as a records search I don't know.



175.35  Waiting period for purchase of handguns.
175.35(1)(1) In this section:

175.35(1)(ag) (ag) "Criminal history record" includes information reported to the department under s. 938.396 (2g) (n) that indicates a person was adjudicated delinquent for an act that if committed by an adult in this state would be a felony.

175.35(1)(ar) (ar) "Firearms dealer" means any person engaged in the business of importing, manufacturing or dealing in firearms and having a license as an importer, manufacturer or dealer issued by the U.S. department of the treasury.

175.35(1)(at) (at) "Firearms restrictions record search" means a search of department of justice records to determine whether a person seeking to purchase a handgun is prohibited from possessing a firearm under s. 941.29. "Firearms restriction record search" includes a criminal history record search, a search to determine whether a person is prohibited from possessing a firearm under s. 51.20 (13) (cv) 1., 2007 stats., a search in the national instant criminal background check system to determine whether a person has been ordered not to possess a firearm under s. 51.20 (13) (cv) 1., 51.45 (13) (i) 1., 54.10 (3) (f) 1., or 55.12 (10) (a), a search to determine whether the person is subject to an injunction under s. 813.12 or 813.122, or a tribal injunction, as defined in s. 813.12 (1) (e), issued by a court established by any federally recognized Wisconsin Indian tribe or band, except the Menominee Indian tribe of Wisconsin, that includes notice to the respondent that he or she is subject to the requirements and penalties under s. 941.29 and that has been filed with the circuit court under s. 806.247 (3), and a search to determine whether the person is prohibited from possessing a firearm under s. 813.125 (4m).

175.35(1)(b) (b) "Handgun" means any weapon designed or redesigned, or made or remade, and intended to be fired while held in one hand and to use the energy of an explosive to expel a projectile through a smooth or rifled bore.

175.35(1)(c) (c) "Working day" means each day except Saturday, Sunday, or a legal holiday under s. 995.20.

175.35(2) (2) When a firearms dealer sells a handgun, he or she may not transfer possession of that handgun to any other person until all of the following have occurred:

175.35(2)(a) (a) The transferee has provided identification as required by rule under sub. (2g) (a).

175.35(2)(b) (b) The transferee has completed the notification form described in sub. (2g) (b).

175.35(2)(c) (c) The firearms dealer has conveyed the information from the completed notification form to the department of justice as required by rule under sub. (2g) (b) and requested a firearms restrictions record search.

175.35(2)(d) (d) Forty-eight hours, subject to extension under sub. (2g) (c) 4. c., have elapsed from the time that the firearms dealer has received a confirmation number regarding the firearms restrictions record search under sub. (2g) (c) from the department of justice and the firearms dealer has not been notified that the transfer would be in violation of s. 941.29.

175.35(2e) (2e) When a transferee completes the notification form described in sub. (2g) (b), the transferee shall provide truthful information.

175.35(2f) (2f) When a firearms dealer requests that the department of justice provide a firearms restrictions record search under sub. (2g), he or she shall provide truthful information about his or her status as a firearms dealer and shall provide an accurate firearms dealer identification number obtained under sub. (2h). A person may request that the department provide a firearms restrictions record search under sub. (2g) only if he or she is a firearms dealer.
175.35(2g) (2g)

175.35(2g)(a)(a) The department of justice shall promulgate rules prescribing procedures for a transferee to provide and a firearms dealer to inspect identification containing a photograph of the transferee.

175.35(2g)(b) (b) The department of justice shall promulgate rules prescribing a notification form for use under sub. (2) requiring the transferee to provide his or her name, date of birth, gender, race and social security number and other identification necessary to permit an accurate firearms restrictions record search under par. (c) 3. and the required notification under par. (c) 4. The department of justice shall make the forms available at locations throughout the state.

175.35(2g)(c) (c) The department of justice shall promulgate rules for firearms restrictions record searches regarding transferees under sub. (2), including procedures for all of the following:

175.35(2g)(c)1. 1. A firearms dealer to convey the information from a completed notification form to the department using a toll-free telephone number provided by the department.

175.35(2g)(c)2. 2. The department to provide the firearms dealer with a confirmation number confirming the receipt of the information under subd. 1.

175.35(2g)(c)3. 3. The department to conduct the firearms restrictions record search regarding the transferee. The rules shall include, but not be limited to, a requirement that the department use the transaction information for management of enforcement system and the national crime information center system.

175.35(2g)(c)4. 4. The department to notify the dealer, either during the initial telephone call or as soon thereafter as practicable, of the results of the firearms restrictions record search as follows:

175.35(2g)(c)4.a. a. If the search indicates that the transferee is prohibited from possessing a firearm under s. 941.29, the department shall provide the firearms dealer with a unique nonapproval number. The department may not disclose to the firearms dealer the reason the transferee is prohibited from possessing a firearm under s. 941.29.

175.35(2g)(c)4.b. b. If the search indicates that the transferee is not prohibited from possessing a firearm under s. 941.29, the department shall provide the firearms dealer with a unique approval number.

175.35(2g)(c)4.c. c. If the search indicates a felony charge without a recorded disposition, the deadline under sub. (2) (d) is extended to the end of the 3rd complete working day commencing after the day on which the finding is made. The department shall notify the firearms dealer of the extension as soon as practicable. During the extended period, the department shall make every reasonable effort to determine the disposition of the charge and notify the firearms dealer of the results as soon as practicable.

175.35(2g)(d) (d)
175.35(2g)(d)1.1. The department of justice shall promulgate rules to convey information in a timely manner to the national instant criminal background check system regarding individuals ordered not to possess a firearm under s. 51.20 (13) (cv) 1., 51.45 (13) (i) 1., 54.10 (3) (f) 1., or 55.12 (10) (a).

175.35(2g)(d)2. 2. The department of justice shall promulgate rules to convey information in a timely manner to the national instant criminal background check system regarding the cancellation under s. 51.20 (13) (cv) 1m. c., 51.45 (13) (i) 2. c., 54.10 (3) (f) 2. c., or 55.12 (10) (b) 3. of an order not to possess a firearm.


Note:
938.396(2g)(n)(n) Firearms restriction record search or background check. If a juvenile is adjudged delinquent for an act that would be a felony if committed by an adult, the court clerk shall notify the department of justice of that fact. No other information from the juvenile's court records may be disclosed to the department of justice except by order of the court. The department of justice may disclose any information provided under this subsection only as part of a firearms restrictions record search under s. 175.35 (2g) (c) or a background check under s. 175.60 (9g) (a).

938.396(2g)(o) (o) Criminal history record search. If a juvenile is adjudged delinquent for committing a serious crime, as defined in s. 48.685 (1) (c), the court clerk shall notify the department of justice of that fact. No other information from the juvenile's court records may be disclosed to the department of justice except by order of the court. The department of justice may disclose any information provided under this subsection only as part of a criminal history record search under s. 48.685 (2) (am) 1. or (b) 1. a.
 

kawisixer01

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2009
Messages
115
Location
Janesville, Wisconsin, United States
A minor cannot be charged with a felony. To be charged with a felony a minor has to be waived into adult court. Typically that long ago a 15 year old would not have been waived for simply stealing a car. If you were waived into adult court it would have been a memorable experience.
 

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
Hacken said:
i think i'm going to call the ATF headquarters and see what's up with the denial application.
ATF has nothing to do with it.
This is entirely an internal WI DOJ thing, and calling won't do much 'cause they don't like to release info even to the "subject individual".
You could ask them to send it to you in writing.
And check up on that "childhood" felony being expunged. That may be the problem.
 

Hacken

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
28
Location
Milwaukee
i'm sure me being charged as a minor 15yrs ago has nothing to do with me being denied a handgun or else it would have shown up on my wisconsin criminal background check. it could be that gander is being lazy on their part of the check up. who knows i guess i'll just have to sit and wait to see if my CCL shows up in the mail.
 

rcawdor57

Campaign Veteran
Joined
May 18, 2009
Messages
1,643
Location
Wisconsin, USA
6 Y.O. Charged With A Felony....This Is Really Messed Up!

A minor cannot be charged with a felony. To be charged with a felony a minor has to be waived into adult court. Typically that long ago a 15 year old would not have been waived for simply stealing a car. If you were waived into adult court it would have been a memorable experience.

http://host.madison.com/news/local/...0c2-11e1-bd3c-001cc4c002e0.html#ixzz1f44Rieml

Snip: "Lawsuit filed by parents of Grant County boy accused of sex assault

The parents of a Grant County boy who authorities have accused of first-degree sexual assault for playing doctor with a 5-year-old girl when he was 6 years old have filed a federal lawsuit against the county's district attorney, a social worker and a former Sheriff's Office investigator."

This happened right here in "Reasonable Wisconsin" with our wonderful "Justice System".
 

bigdaddy1

Regular Member
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
1,320
Location
Southsider der hey
ATF has nothing to do with it.
This is entirely an internal WI DOJ thing, and calling won't do much 'cause they don't like to release info even to the "subject individual".
You could ask them to send it to you in writing.
And check up on that "childhood" felony being expunged. That may be the problem.

A few years back I went to Dunham's to buy a AK47. My NICS check was "delayed" for 3 weeks. I got sick of waiting and I called the FBI to see what the problem was (I have a brother who is a felon, our names and SOC are very close). The lady who answered the phone was very helpful and polite. She asked if I would be willing to give her some information and look into the status. I gave her the information (figuring she probably already had it) and she said there doesn't seem to be anything she could see that would put up a flag. She told me to have the clerk run it again and it went through with out any problem. Go figure.
 

markush

Regular Member
Joined
May 19, 2011
Messages
172
Location
Kenosha
For you guys that are talking about being delayed for weeks at a time...if the FFL gets a delayed response and within 72 hours does not receive a definitive answer of ya or nay he, the FFL, can then release the firearm to the purchaser. Obviously it's at the discretion of the FFL but legally he can and if he didn't I would go elswhere.
 

RR_Broccoli

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2010
Messages
170
Location
WI
Someone else with a similar name can cause a rejection.

Was the social security number used on the 4477 form?

Maybe try again only put the social on there and ask the caller to include it in the information.

"Oh, not THAT Jim Jones"

If you have a unique or very uncommon name it might not be the problem. But if it's anything near common it could be.
 

bmwguy11

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
461
Location
wisconsin
For you guys that are talking about being delayed for weeks at a time...if the FFL gets a delayed response and within 72 hours does not receive a definitive answer of ya or nay he, the FFL, can then release the firearm to the purchaser. Obviously it's at the discretion of the FFL but legally he can and if he didn't I would go elswhere.

Actually I believe that is only for long guns. For firearms, they cannot release the gun until an approval number is received.


edit: yea just confirmed that on my paperwork for my handgun. says it plain as day.
 
Last edited:

bigdaddy1

Regular Member
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
1,320
Location
Southsider der hey
For you guys that are talking about being delayed for weeks at a time...if the FFL gets a delayed response and within 72 hours does not receive a definitive answer of ya or nay he, the FFL, can then release the firearm to the purchaser. Obviously it's at the discretion of the FFL but legally he can and if he didn't I would go elswhere.

That is true, in fact the lady I was talking to at the FBI office told me that also. However she also said that if the store delivers the firearm to you and for what ever reason the delay turns into a denied the FBI will be making a unscheduled visit to your home and will confiscate any and all weapons in the household, not just the purchased weapon that initiated the sequence of events.
 
H

Herr Heckler Koch

Guest
the FBI will be making a unscheduled visit to your home and will confiscate any and all weapons in the household, not just the purchased weapon that initiated the sequence of events.
With a warrant, I wonder, and notice during business hours.
 

Interceptor_Knight

Regular Member
Joined
May 18, 2007
Messages
2,851
Location
Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
Someone else with a similar name can cause a rejection.

Was the social security number used on the 4477 form?

Maybe try again only put the social on there and ask the caller to include it in the information.

"Oh, not THAT Jim Jones"

If you have a unique or very uncommon name it might not be the problem. But if it's anything near common it could be.
WI does not ask for a SSN nor any other information off of the 4473. The 4473 is filled out as a Federal requirement and the WI "proceed" or "deny" number is written on it. Only the WI DL # is given to the WI DOJ handgun hotline.
 

jrm

Regular Member
Joined
May 21, 2007
Messages
190
Location
, ,
WI does not ask for a SSN nor any other information off of the 4473. The 4473 is filled out as a Federal requirement and the WI "proceed" or "deny" number is written on it. Only the WI DL # is given to the WI DOJ handgun hotline.

The SSN is not required on the 4473. It is optional, but unnecessary.
 

Hacken

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
28
Location
Milwaukee
i called the FBI this morning and they say they will just send in some papers for me to appeal just like what the state says also..
 
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