• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Finally got the skinny on USNA69's situation with OC and voting in Norfolk.

jmelvin

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
2,195
Location
Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
Unfortunately, almost all churches in VA have a K-12 Sunday School and some have a preschool that includes kindergarten. We have yet to obtain a definitive opinion on the difference (if any) between "school grounds" and "church grounds". Most parish halls are separated into the "school" area and the parish business area. Until we are sure that we aren't on "school grounds" just by stepping onto church property, caution is indicated. I spoke with AG Ken Cuccinelli on this topic at the TLP meeting in VA Bch., and he is open to looking at it...

Unless you can find a code citation that includes a Sunday School into the meaning of "elementary school, middle school or high school" within the context of Virginia Legislative Code 18.2-308 I would hardly think Sunday School fits the restriction.

If the church has a kindergarten then that would meet the requirements of an elementary school, but not a Sunday School.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Might be something to look at this session. The BOS over has a habit of using a school building for meetings if they think turn out will be more that the BOS Chamber in the County Admin Building.:banghead:

What municipality?
 

johnfenter

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
209
Location
, ,
Up to you

Unless you can find a code citation that includes a Sunday School into the meaning of "elementary school, middle school or high school" within the context of Virginia Legislative Code 18.2-308 I would hardly think Sunday School fits the restriction.

If the church has a kindergarten then that would meet the requirements of an elementary school, but not a Sunday School.

Do you want to gamble your freedom on that interpretation? The law is silent on whether or not the "school" has to be full time or accredited; it just has to be a "religious" school. Most Sunday Schools encompass K-12 classes. Your call...
 

user

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
2,516
Location
Northern Piedmont
Back to the OP ("Old Post") - further observations

The registrar and assistant registrars are conservators of the peace. Election officials, poll workers, and members of the electoral board are NOT designated as conservators unless they are officially "assistant registrars". I take the position that since a conservator is vested with the authority to make arrests without a warrant in the same situations as would a sheriff's deputy or police officer, such a conservator is a "law enforcement officer".

=====

§ 24.2-114. Duties and powers of general registrar.

In addition to the other duties required by this title, the general registrar, and the assistant registrars acting under his supervision, shall:
...
7. Preserve order at and in the vicinity of the place of registration. For this purpose, the registrar shall be vested with the powers of a conservator of the peace while engaged in the duties imposed by law. He may exclude from the place of registration persons whose presence disturbs the registration process. He may appoint special officers, not exceeding three in number, for a place of registration and may summon persons in the vicinity to assist whenever, in his judgment, it is necessary to preserve order. The general registrar and any assistant registrar shall be authorized to administer oaths for purposes of this title.

=====

This section makes a registrar a conservator of the peace, but limits the appointment by the phrase, "For this purpose..."; I think that, coupled with the other language regarding regulation of conduct of other people at the polling place, to mean that the registrar is only a conservator while acting in his official capacity in connection with actual voting. I don't think it matters where the registrar or assistants are located while engaged in official duties, as long as they're available to quell disturbances at polling places. So immediately before, during, and immediately after an election (and I think this extends to certification of results, since that is an activity related to the election for which personal protection may be required), the registrar and assistants are permitted to carry firearms where ever they go in the county, including a courthouse, but may not CC without a CHP. No one other than the Registrar and his offically appointed assistants have any power to make decisions about what constitutes a need for "preserving order", but they have primary authority in that regard - the (local sheriff or Police Department) has none ("expression unius est exclusio alterius").
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
I'm going to disagree with you, based on the language "place of registration". That's where you go to register to vote, not the place you go to cast your vote. The words seem vey clear, and other legislation dealing with where you cast you vote uses the term "polling place". If the GA meant for the two to be the same they would not have used differing words, right?

stay safe.
 

ProShooter

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
4,663
Location
www.ProactiveShooters.com, Richmond, Va., , USA
ok, as promised, my FOIA request to the State Board of Elections was answered quickly. Here is the wording in the document that USNA69 was shown about carrying in a polling place.

"If someone is known to have a weapon, and is not a sworn law enforcement official displaying their badge, or a person displaying a valid Virginia concealed weapons permit, have more than one election official approach the individual together and simply ask him to leave the weapon outside. If the person does not immediately comply, have an election official call 9-1-1 and report the incident. All unsafe or threatening behavior should be reported to 9-1-1.

Unsafe behavior may include the following:

o Display of multiple or unusual weapons
o Display of a weapon in a position in which it could be used.
o Shoving, pushing, unnecessary physical contact, abusive language or gestures.
o Statements that contain violent descriptions.

Do not get personally involved if you believe that an assault is occurring. Instead, call 9-1-1 and complete the Incident Report.


The section of the manual does not specifically address the term OC, since (as usual) most people probably don't know what OC even is.

Since there are quite a few variables that could be present in this situation (an armed citizen voting), it'll take me a few days to re-write this. They seem very receptive to the idea of a re-write so that they are putting the correct info out to their people. Its an easy fix and this will lead to the poll workers state-wide receiving the correct training in this situation.

Just an update to this thread....

I have submitted a list of policy revisions to the State Board of Elections. Now its up to their legal team to review and implement.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Just an update to this thread....

I have submitted a list of policy revisions to the State Board of Elections. Now its up to their legal team to review and implement.

Good show - hands on activism.

That is truly grabbing the bull by the horns ....... in a responsible and gentlemanly fashion.
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
Well Done Jim!
Please keep us up on the progress.

It's refreshing to see a CHP instructor who is really a pro 2nd proponent and sees both sides of the fence.
 

Pagan

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2009
Messages
629
Location
Gloucester, Virginia, USA
Interesting, as, I serve as an election officer for Gloucester county, and on the list of prohibited items, such as campaign buttons or political t-shirts and stuff, weapons were not on the list.
 
Top