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does cc make you anti oc ?

bellyfat

Regular Member
Joined
May 28, 2012
Messages
69
Location
north carolina
seting the record straight

i am the op, and was not aware of any anti oc opinions by the org. in question.
my op question was only a question. and as i said before, i carry both ways depending on circumstances.
i am also a biker as well as a gun toter. and back in the day i recall no motorcycles allowed signs being posted in alot of resturaunt and motels.
even leather jackets were banned in alot of places., thanks to marlin brando movies of the 50's and 60's.
prejudice is an ugly thing.
ive only been packin for about a year and have much to learn about the various organizations.
thanks to all who replied.
 

ncwabbit

Regular Member
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Nov 2, 2011
Messages
670
Location
rural religious usa
i am the op, and was not aware of any anti oc opinions by the org. in question.
my op question was only a question. and as i said before, i carry both ways depending on circumstances.
i am also a biker as well as a gun toter. and back in the day i recall no motorcycles allowed signs being posted in alot of resturaunt and motels.
even leather jackets were banned in alot of places., thanks to marlin brando movies of the 50's and 60's.
prejudice is an ugly thing.
ive only been packin for about a year and have much to learn about the various organizations.
thanks to all who replied.

i think i read about brando and dean in my history books...lol or from watching OLDE movies...:eek:

wabbit
 

ncwabbit

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rural religious usa
Note to the forum:

What eye95 says seems to be the standard the SCOTUS is likely to adopt in states where concealed carry requires a license, especially when OC does not. To this extent, it is accurate.

I submit, however, that he has an insidious way of repeatedly stating this as though it were unquestionable Fact, that there is some inherent truth to this completely arbitrary differentiation.

I myself have made the observation that the SCOTUS is likely to argue what eye95 says here, and for litigative purposes it might as well be assumed as a practical matter.

But it's also become apparent (largely through his own admission) that eye95 believes this to be a fundamental truth, seemingly universal, despite the existence of several states where open carry is prohibited outright, a number of which only allow carry at all concealed, and with a permit.

Since this thread isn't related to any litigative endeavor, but is more "philosophical" in nature, I'm inclined to take issue with eye95's assertion in this context.

It is my belief that the right to bear arms is an extension of the general right to do anything which does not aggressively interfere with another's sphere of equal right. Whether a person hides or "displays" his weapon affects my freedom and rights not at all, and therefore is within nobody's rightful authority to dictate.

So, when eye95 asserts "OC is right, CC is privilege" as though it's divine truth: always remember that he's wrong. His view is only valid in the extremely narrow context of litigation and legal precedent, i.e. when prostrating oneself and begging for scraps of right from our benevolent superiors, in this case the SCOTUS.


are you speaking for eye95 or don't you have an opinion for yourself??

wabbit
 

marshaul

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Aug 13, 2007
Messages
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Fairfax County, Virginia
are you speaking for eye95 or don't you have an opinion for yourself??

wabbit

Edit: I'm not going to let you derail the point I'm trying to make. I deleted the original post, clarified a few things, and reposted it on the next page. There will no longer be any good-faith justification for claiming that I am putting words in eye95's mouth, which was certainly not my intent. My intent was to refute something he has said, repeatedly.
 
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ncwabbit

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Nov 2, 2011
Messages
670
Location
rural religious usa
Note to the forum:

What eye95 says seems to be the standard the SCOTUS is likely to adopt in states where concealed carry requires a license, especially when OC does not. To this extent, it is accurate.

I submit, however, that he has an insidious way of repeatedly stating this as though it were unquestionable Fact, that there is some inherent truth to this completely arbitrary differentiation.

I myself have made the observation that the SCOTUS is likely to argue what eye95 says here, and for litigative purposes it might as well be assumed as a practical matter.

But it's also become apparent (largely through his own admission) that eye95 believes this to be a fundamental truth, seemingly universal, despite the existence of several states where open carry is prohibited outright – a number of which only allow carry at all concealed, and with a permit.

Since this thread isn't related to any litigative endeavor, but is more "philosophical" in nature, I'm inclined to take issue with eye95's assertion in this context.

It is my belief that the right to bear arms is an extension of the general right to do anything which does not aggressively interfere with another's sphere of equal right. Whether a person hides or "displays" his weapon affects my freedom and rights not at all, and therefore is within nobody's rightful authority to dictate.

So, when eye95 asserts "OC is right, CC is privilege" as though it's divine truth: always remember that he's wrong. His view is only valid in the extremely narrow context of litigation and legal precedent, i.e. when prostrating oneself and begging for scraps of right from our benevolent superiors, in this case the SCOTUS.

hummmm...perhaps i misread the post?

NAH...didn't happen...my previous statement stands..

wabbit
 
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marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
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Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
I see your titular question as asking, "Does the exercise of a licensed privilege mean that you are against the free exercise of a right?"

Note to the forum:

What eye95 implies (open carry is right, concealed carry is privilege) seems to be the standard the SCOTUS is likely to adopt in states where concealed carry requires a license, especially when OC does not. To this extent, the implication is accurate.

I myself have made the observation that the SCOTUS is likely to decide along these lines, and for litigative purposes it may as well be assumed, as a practical matter.

I submit, however, that he has an insidious way of repeatedly stating this as though it were unquestionable Fact, that there is some inherent truth to this completely arbitrary differentiation between open carry as "right" and concealed carry as mere "privilege".

But it's also become apparent to me that eye95 believes this to be a fundamental truth, seemingly universal (despite the existence of several states where open carry is prohibited outright – a number of which only allow carry at all concealed, and with a permit).

Since this thread isn't related to any litigative endeavor, but is more "philosophical" in nature, I'm inclined to take issue with eye95's assertion (CC is privilege) in this context. And, this isn't the first time; I've now been bothered on numerous occasions by his insistence on asserting or implying that concealed carry is privilege – no further qualifications whatsoever. "Insidious" is precisely the word: clearly he wishes his assertion to be the law of the land, and he's intent on directing the RKBA community's internal rhetoric towards tacit (if not enthusiastic) acceptance of CC as mere privilege.

You see: if we don't argue for CC as right, nobody will, and it will never be legally recognized as a right. It's becoming increasingly clear that this is precisely the outcome eye95 desires.

It is my belief that the right to bear arms is an extension of the general right to do anything which does not aggressively interfere with another's sphere of equal right. Whether a person hides or "displays" his weapon affects my freedom and rights not at all, and therefore is within nobody's rightful authority to dictate.

That is to say: from any sort of coherent and consistent philosophical approach, the right to carry concealed is every bit as much a right as is open carry. Therefore, as a general rule, we should be arguing explicitly that concealed carry is, and ought to be recognized as, a fundamental right.

So, when eye95 asserts "OC is right, CC is privilege" as though it's divine truth: always remember that he's wrong. His view is only valid in the extremely narrow context of litigation and legal precedent, i.e. when prostrating oneself and begging for scraps of right from our benevolent superiors, in this case the SCOTUS.

I further submit that concealed carry licensure is, and always has been, a de facto Jim Crow law, and that anybody who supports its continuation is, in effect, supporting the legacy of Jim Crow – although of course they can conveniently deny this fact, as the last round of Jim Crow laws (those still on the books) were carefully written so as to appear neutral and objective, but intended to be applied in an inherently discriminatory manner, as they still are today in states all across the country.






As to whether the above post "speaks for eye95", he has asserted on numerous occasions and with no qualifications, that concealed carry is privilege. Are you really going to insist that I waste my time going through his post history to find quotations to defend this claim?

Everything else should be quite clearly my interpretation of his motivations, and my opinion of the ramifications of accepting concealed carry as privilege.
 
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scott58dh

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2011
Messages
425
Location
why?
Kiss

Keep It Simple *Silly* !

Easy answer to the never ending debate,,,

Chocolate ,,, Strawberry ,,, or ,,, Vanilla :banghead:

This is a Free country so the choice is yours to make, no right or wrong.

Pax !
 

bc.cruiser

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2011
Messages
786
Location
Fayetteville NC
please tread carefully with your comments mate

as you will note in papa bear's comment: quote i have been on other sites that venomously attack OC. they have made statements that OC will end all carry. unquote

my ps to papa bear was aimed at quantifying which site he was referring to...nothing more or nothing less!!

i have visited NCGO's site and had not personally seen that type of OC against CC or vice verse mentality, however, while my site visit(s) are brief and I thought i might have missed this mentality in my quick sojourns to what i consider a premier state focused firearm's site.

wabbit
Fixed the word. As for the condescension in that line, KMA.

Perhaps you should have simply asked papa bear which forum he was talking about. My apology for misconstruing your ps.
 

papa bear

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mayberry, nc
hey WABBIT, no i was not referring to NCGO. i have found that site to be on a curve. there are some that are against OC, some that are against CC, but most are in the middle. i don't think i should name the other sites. one has CC in it's name and some others are, not in the gun community, but have gun sections in the forums.

i have read often the "oh lawd, them OCers are going to scare the hopolophobes to outlaw carry"
 

rotorhead

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2010
Messages
862
Location
FL
Now don't be getting all upset with poor wabbit. It's his standard MO to twist words around, attach alternative conclusions to them, and then sell them to the public like snake oil. It's not like he's targeting anyone specific :)

PS- Grapeshot, you forgot to delete the personal attacks of others against others when you cleaned mine up. I'm assuming you were busy at the time. Would you like to get to them now or do you still need more time?
 

rotorhead

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Sep 18, 2010
Messages
862
Location
FL
And for the sake of the OP, I don't see why being cc would make one anti oc.

It's sad that there is such division between the two where there shouldn't be. It's all personal choice. The legalities of either are a prime wedge that can be used against all gun owners, and it shouldn't be. The arguments are slightly less relevent than whether one drives a compact car or an SUV. It's a personal choice based on a personal need, nothing more.

Personally I carry openly for several reasons. Perhaps one day when a pretty little permit is no longer needed I may choose to cc on occasion,but until such time, I'll stay with what works for me.
 
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Jamesm760

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2013
Messages
429
Location
Salisbury, NC
I do both as well.

Although I do prefer OC, In some situations I like the benefits of CC,

Example: you are in your bank, cashing a check depositing etc. Some one goes in to rob the place, they see a gun on your hip, first thing they will do is take out a threat.

IMO in certain places its better if you have the element of surprise. For some reason in crowded spaces where people are with in arms reach I also like to CC... other than that I OC all day. Although when I go in a bank I do both, I don't always CC. depends on how long i'm planing on being there.

That being said, the only thing I am anti is anti-gun control.. :D
 

ron73440

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Mar 3, 2013
Messages
474
Location
Suffolk VA
Not the "YOU'RE GOING TO GET SHOT FIRST" argument again

Although I do prefer OC, In some situations I like the benefits of CC,

Example: you are in your bank, cashing a check depositing etc. Some one goes in to rob the place, they see a gun on your hip, first thing they will do is take out a threat.

IMO in certain places its better if you have the element of surprise. For some reason in crowded spaces where people are with in arms reach I also like to CC... other than that I OC all day. Although when I go in a bank I do both, I don't always CC. depends on how long i'm planing on being there.

That being said, the only thing I am anti is anti-gun control.. :D

I have seen others make that assertion, about being shot first.

Have you researched it? If you have how many cases are there?

I would think if someone wants to rob the place and they see an OC'er, you may have stopped him without even knowing about it, like the Waffle House in GA, where the BG's got caught waiting for some customers who were OC'ing to leave.

I can understand CC'ing in a crowd, I'm not comfortable in the middle of a large mass of people and am not sure yet how that will affect my OC'ing once I get home.

Bottom line, you should carry legally however you are the most comfortable and whether that's OC or CC, most people on this forum are just happy you are carrying.
 
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WalkingWolf

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Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
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North Carolina
Bad Guys do not want to get shot, so they move on down the yellow brick road. The getting shot first is a myth.

There is a study that backs this up, as soon as I find it I will post it. If you OC in a bank you are preventing a possible robbery, you are NOT being a target.

* 3/5 of felons polled agreed that "a criminal is not going to mess around with a victim he knows is armed with a gun."21

https://www.gunowners.org/sk0802htm.htm
 
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eye95

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Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
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Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
...Example: you are in your bank, cashing a check depositing etc. Some one goes in to rob the place, they see a gun on your hip, first thing they will do is take out a threat...

:banghead: This again?

Do you know of a single case of an OCer being targeted first???

It just does not happen. Even if you manage to find a single case, what does that tell you, considering that it is one case out of how many?

Check out what happened in the Waffle House in Kennesaw Georgia. That is the effect that OC has on armed robbers. The only problem is that when it happens, we usually have no way of knowing that it did. In this case, we KNOW the effect of OC on would-be robbers!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>
 

Fallschirjmäger

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Aug 4, 2007
Messages
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Cumming, Georgia, USA
Y'know ..... If he'd said that "If you're going to wear a 'shoot me first' vest, you'll get shot" I might've been tempted to agree with him. After all, the SMF ™vest is a walking 360-degree advertisement that whoever is wearing one is probably armed. At least with wearing a gun on my side I've got somewhere between 180 and 270 degrees where it might be missed.

(Yes, I'm being facetious, by the way.)

If the premise were true, then having armed guards or even armed, uniformed police officers standing guard in a bank would not reduce the chance of a bank robbery.
 
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Jamesm760

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Salisbury, NC
:banghead: This again?

Do you know of a single case of an OCer being targeted first???

It just does not happen. Even if you manage to find a single case, what does that tell you, considering that it is one case out of how many?

Check out what happened in the Waffle House in Kennesaw Georgia. That is the effect that OC has on armed robbers. The only problem is that when it happens, we usually have no way of knowing that it did. In this case, we KNOW the effect of OC on would-be robbers!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>



No, there are no facts, I was simply stating my opinion, I guess when I put myself in a BG shoes, If there was someone that was OCing, I would A) shoot them if they were reaching for their firearm B) Take their firearm away if they had their hands up.

Didn't mean to start anything, there are no facts behind what I said. Again I was just stating my opinion.
 

WalkingWolf

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No, there are no facts, I was simply stating my opinion, I guess when I put myself in a BG shoes, If there was someone that was OCing, I would A) shoot them if they were reaching for their firearm B) Take their firearm away if they had their hands up.

Didn't mean to start anything, there are no facts behind what I said. Again I was just stating my opinion.

Personally I don't screw with armed people, does not make much sense to me. From interviews with crooks it does not make sense to them either.

Kinda reminds me of my brother growing up. There was this flower bush that the bees loved. He would trap a bee in the flower and poke it with a pin until it died. One escaped and stung him, but the worse part was the whole hive then chased him. He was stung multiple times. As I said it just does not make much sense, like playing slap silly with a cobra.
 
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marshaul

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No, there are no facts, I was simply stating my opinion, I guess when I put myself in a BG shoes, If there was someone that was OCing, I would A) shoot them if they were reaching for their firearm B) Take their firearm away if they had their hands up.

Really? You wouldn't, you know, just leave?

I find it rather disturbing that you have more violent criminal-thoughts than do most actual criminals.
 

Jamesm760

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Salisbury, NC
Really? You wouldn't, you know, just leave?

I find it rather disturbing that you have more violent criminal-thoughts than do most actual criminals.

You have yet to explore my thoughts and views in life ;)

All i'm saying is, If some one is determined to rob a bank, and doesn't do anything about people that are armed inside the bank while in the process, then yea I hope they shoot the BG because hes a dumbass.

I see how you guys think its dumb to try and rob a place if you see firearms there, but its even more dumb if you make it into the place, then notice people are armed, and just let them keep their firearms.

If they are determined enough to the point that they are already in the bank, and they leave at the sight of firearms on people's hips....

of course bad guys dont want to get shot, i dont think anyone does.

I honestly don't even remember what started this... I forgot what was the point i was trying to make -.-
ZZZzzzz forget it.

everyone will have their opinions. =)
 
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