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U of M property

FS23

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2011
Messages
78
Location
South Lyon, Michigan
Someone posted a means of determining the boundaries of the U of M property a while back. Going to the seafood company for dinner today and want to see where main and LIBERTY !! are in relation to the property boundaries of U of M.

Thanks !!
 

FS23

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2011
Messages
78
Location
South Lyon, Michigan
Thanks Q

The resturaunt is on main so I should be ok then. Parking is one block east though. I tried your link and the page displayed blank ??
Does the google map of the AA area display the UM property by default ?
 

FS23

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2011
Messages
78
Location
South Lyon, Michigan
Go to http://maps.google.com

U of M property is highlighted in brown, IIRC.

Liberty and main appear kosher but don't go much further east on Liberty or you could be in trouble.

Ok, think I got now. I looked at the map earlier and wondered if all the brown was UM property.... Couldn't imagine that it was. Guess so .... Liberals own it all...well almost..lol

Looks like parking will be ok just can't go another block east !!

Thanks again Q !!
 

kryptonian

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Apr 26, 2010
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, ,
explain again how that would be a problem if you have a CPL and OC when under mcl750.234 you would be exempt presumably.
 

Mitchell

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Oct 14, 2008
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276
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I still do not understand the legal angle that university's have rules that over ride state law

:confused:
 

sv51macross

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2010
Messages
11
Location
, , USA
Michigan's sidewalk laws suck

So, the property owner is responsible for the maintenance of the sidewalks. It is technically classified as thier property, but one cannot obstruct a sidewalk as it is a 'public thoroughfare'.

So everyone gets all the downsides and none of the benefits? One cannot possess a weapon on the sidewalk adjoining UofM property?
 

TheQ

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Messages
3,379
Location
Lansing, Michigan
Universities are basically their own little cities. They often have their own water treatment plants, power generation, and police. There are even private businesses that are right on University property. They can enact enforceable misdemeanor ordinances like any other city. Their police can arrest you and anally rape your rights to the same extent as any other police organization.

The my difference is Universities AREN'T listed in MCL 123.1101. Also, unlike "Authorities", they don't derive their power from a city, township, county, etc. They derive their charter directly from the State.
 

DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,272
Location
Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
There are exceptions to their rules, too:
Section 4. Exceptions
(1) Except to the extent regulated under Subparagraph (2), the prohibitions in
this Article X do not apply:
(a) to University employees who are authorized to possess and/or use such
a device pursuant to Standard Practice Guide 201.94;
(b) to non-University law enforcement officers of legally established law
enforcement agencies or to other non-University employees who, in
either situation, are authorized by their employer to possess or use
such a device during the time the employee is engaged In work
requiring such a device;

(c) when someone possess or uses such a device as part of a military or
similar uniform or costume In connection with a public ceremony or
parade or theatrical performance;

(d) when someone possesses or uses such a device in connection with a
regularly scheduled educational, recreational or training program
authorized by the University;
(e) when someone possess or uses such a device for recreational hunting
on property which has been designated for such activity by the
University provided such possession and use is in strict compliance
with applicable law; or
(f) when the Director of the University's Department of Public Safety has
waived the prohibition based on extraordinary circumstances. Any
such waiver must be in writing and must define its scope and duration.
(2) The Director of the Department of Public Safety may impose restrictions
upon individuals who are otherwise authorized to possess or use such a
device pursuant to Subsection (1) when the Director determines that such
restrictions are appropriate under the circumstances.

see Article X: http://www.regents.umich.edu/ordinance.pdf
 

Greyh Seer

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
58
Location
Michigan
Is there any possibility for our state's premption law to be strengthened so I don't have to worry about being arrested for some school rule when I might not even be aware I am on thier property?

What about driving down the streets down there? Are the roads considered university property? As long I a stay in my car am I OK?

What if I am cc and I am pulled over on a street that has university property on both sides?
 

apjonas

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Messages
1,157
Location
, ,
A Statutory Change Would Not Be Enough (Probably)

Is there any possibility for our state's premption law to be strengthened so I don't have to worry about being arrested for some school rule when I might not even be aware I am on thier property?

What about driving down the streets down there? Are the roads considered university property? As long I a stay in my car am I OK?

What if I am cc and I am pulled over on a street that has university property on both sides?

You would need a constitutional amendment. Three Michigan institutions derive their status/power directly from the state constitution. While there have been many court cases delimiting the extent of such power, it is still the case that as a general rule they may create and enforce such regulations. Michigan State used this authority to permit concealed weapons on campus (but not in buildings), so their policy is closer to the state statute. Theoretically, any of the three constitutionally incorporated states could permit concealed carry in university buildings, state law notwithstanding. In those instances where any "local government" or "political subdivision" is discussed, it is important to look at the definitions for the particular law in question. Sometimes universites are included, sometimes not.

STATE CONSTITUTION (EXCERPT)
CONSTITUTION OF MICHIGAN OF 1963

Article VIII
§ 5 University of Michigan, Michigan State University, Wayne State University; controlling boards.

The regents of the University of Michigan and their successors in office shall constitute a body corporate known as the Regents of the University of Michigan; the trustees of Michigan State University and their successors in office shall constitute a body corporate known as the Board of Trustees of Michigan State University; the governors of Wayne State University and their successors in office shall constitute a body corporate known as the Board of Governors of Wayne State University. Each board shall have general supervision of its institution and the control and direction of all expenditures from the institution's funds. Each board shall, as often as necessary, elect a president of the institution under its supervision. He shall be the principal executive officer of the institution, be ex-officio a member of the board without the right to vote and preside at meetings of the board. The board of each institution shall consist of eight members who shall hold office for terms of eight years and who shall be elected as provided by law. The governor shall fill board vacancies by appointment. Each appointee shall hold office until a successor has been nominated and elected as provided by law.

History: Const. 1963, Art. VIII, § 5, Eff. Jan. 1, 1964
Former Constitution: See Const. 1908, Art. XI, §§ 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 16.


Other public colleges and universities have similar provisions but they are creatures of the legislature (established by the state) and thus can be more tightly controlled (if the legislature choses to do so). For example, the legislature could dissolve Western Michigan University but could not do so to any of the Big Three.
 
Last edited:

Mitchell

New member
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Oct 14, 2008
Messages
276
Location
, ,
So, they only have to follow the State constitution. Is that what I am reading? I would think that if they "..get their charter directly from the state" They would have to f
ollow the law of the state.
 

Greyh Seer

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
58
Location
Michigan
So the only way to get university carry or to force premption on the universities is to change the constitution?

Would it be easier to get the SCOM to call university firearm laws unconstitutional?
 

DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,272
Location
Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
So the only way to get university carry or to force premption on the universities is to change the constitution?

Would it be easier to get the SCOM to call university firearm laws unconstitutional?

Well, you always could ask the UofM to change their ordinances; Michigan State did.
 

Greyh Seer

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
58
Location
Michigan
So, What are the Universities that don't answer to the State? Any one with the "Michigan" in the title?
 

apjonas

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Messages
1,157
Location
, ,
My Feelings are Hurt

So, What are the Universities that don't answer to the State? Any one with the "Michigan" in the title?

I went through a lot of time and trouble to post a detailed explanation which includes the answer to your question. It's only a couple of posts away. Excuse me, I'm gonna cry....
 
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