autosurgeon
Regular Member
Hear, hear! Bikenut!
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Your manners questioned
- Thread starter Rich B
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Rich B
Regular Member
K
KansasScout
Guest
congratulations
I am one of the posters who spoke against behavior of those who decided to open carry in a Library, in Breda's blog.
You did more to alienate fellow gunners and divide us than any anti gunner. Your stance has only made me begin to rethink this open carry movement given the lunacy of someone carrying a shotgun into a library. Even if this detail is not true, I still don't think a Library is the place to make your point.
Calling your opponents names sure does nothing to win anyone over.
You caused a great deal of damage to your cause.
I have been a member of this forum for some time now and considered getting involved locally. I doubt I will now if most of you open carry guys think acting like this is valid.
Perhaps you will reconsider your manner of persuasion. @ DM you did not do your cause any favors at Breda's blog.
I have been a fierce advocate for my second amendment rights for more years than you have been alive I bet so save the name calling for someone else.
I stand by the Constitution of the United States and am willing to fight for it. I support open carry because it means that bearing arms is real manifestation of that right.
Just because I can does not mean I should in all places at all times. Don't give me your speeches about your rights when what your doing only scares people and makes more enemies than friends when you fail to exercise some discretion. Taking your issue with the library and it's decision to ban firearms would be better taken to court than what you did.
Take your gun to the Statehouse, Courthouse, where you like if it advances the cause of freedom and the right to carry.
If a "Katrina" happens in my community, I don't want to have a problem carrying my SKS around with my openly carried pistol.
Otherwise I carry concealed in my suburban community here in KC. Tactically I am better off anyway.
There is nothing wrong with open carry exercises in various places but not every place is a good place to try it.
No right is absolute everywhere at all times with unlimited expression. You can't shout "fire" in a theatre even though you might think you have a right to do so. (you don't)
I am one of the posters who spoke against behavior of those who decided to open carry in a Library, in Breda's blog.
You did more to alienate fellow gunners and divide us than any anti gunner. Your stance has only made me begin to rethink this open carry movement given the lunacy of someone carrying a shotgun into a library. Even if this detail is not true, I still don't think a Library is the place to make your point.
Calling your opponents names sure does nothing to win anyone over.
You caused a great deal of damage to your cause.
I have been a member of this forum for some time now and considered getting involved locally. I doubt I will now if most of you open carry guys think acting like this is valid.
Perhaps you will reconsider your manner of persuasion. @ DM you did not do your cause any favors at Breda's blog.
I have been a fierce advocate for my second amendment rights for more years than you have been alive I bet so save the name calling for someone else.
I stand by the Constitution of the United States and am willing to fight for it. I support open carry because it means that bearing arms is real manifestation of that right.
Just because I can does not mean I should in all places at all times. Don't give me your speeches about your rights when what your doing only scares people and makes more enemies than friends when you fail to exercise some discretion. Taking your issue with the library and it's decision to ban firearms would be better taken to court than what you did.
Take your gun to the Statehouse, Courthouse, where you like if it advances the cause of freedom and the right to carry.
If a "Katrina" happens in my community, I don't want to have a problem carrying my SKS around with my openly carried pistol.
Otherwise I carry concealed in my suburban community here in KC. Tactically I am better off anyway.
There is nothing wrong with open carry exercises in various places but not every place is a good place to try it.
No right is absolute everywhere at all times with unlimited expression. You can't shout "fire" in a theatre even though you might think you have a right to do so. (you don't)
Kansas, I agree with much that you say and long guns are by the rules OT here on OCDO.
I do take exception to several things you have said though.
Please explain with facts and cites (not how you feel or think) how CC is tactically better. You picked a hard row to hoe on that one.
Yes, I can yell "Fire" in a theater ..................... just needs to be an honest response to a real condition.
BTW - I don't 'try" to OC every place that it is legal - I "do it" every day as I go about my regular, routine business - that includes libraries, restaurants, gas stations and our General Assembly Building.
DrTodd
Michigan Moderator
Your comments sound EXACTLY like those made by CCers about those OCing a pistol, or much like any general owner of firearm (for hunting only, and of course only a shotgun or rifle) talking to people licensed to CC. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
autosurgeon
Regular Member
United we stand divided we fall.
We don't exercise OC or at least I don't. I carry everywhere I legally can and usually that means OC. I really don't make a conscious decision to OC it just happens to be my main mode of carry.
You get to decide where you OC.. I get to decide where I OC... this is what is known as a free society. When any person chooses to think they have the power to make others decisions for them they have forgotten what freedom is.
We don't exercise OC or at least I don't. I carry everywhere I legally can and usually that means OC. I really don't make a conscious decision to OC it just happens to be my main mode of carry.
You get to decide where you OC.. I get to decide where I OC... this is what is known as a free society. When any person chooses to think they have the power to make others decisions for them they have forgotten what freedom is.
wrightme
Regular Member
So you advocate detainment for lawful acts? Or non-judicial restrictions upon free travel during lawful acts?
It is entirely within the 1st Amendment to yell "fire" in a crowded theater. That exercise is not restricted. Do you have statute that indicates differently?KansasScout said:
If someone does so, they are responsible for the ensuing events. If those events include the exodus of patron prior to immolation, they are responsible. If those events include charges for inciting a panic in absence of an actual fire, they are responsible.
That homily is oft-touted, but is not a well-thought-out example at all. Think it out.
TheQ
Regular Member
It's called a "tort" (wrongful or negligent death). Manslaughter or "depraved indifference" (some Jurisdictions -- McCoy's favorite charge) may apply.
wrightme
Regular Member
Possibly, if a death occurs. But, if such happens, it isn't a restriction upon the First Amendment.
B
Bikenut
Guest
Hang on tight folks... another rant is about to spill over......
The anti freedom elitist pro control folks have managed to instill a cancer into the consciousness of society... the festering cancer is the concept that rights take second place to the horrible insult of "offending" or "scaring" someone.
And even those who support gun rights have been infected because they think that it is necessary to tippy toe around in fear, yes IN FEAR! of "offending" the anti's and those anti's must be sucked up to so "we the people" will be allowed to keep and bear arms as long as we don't "offend" anyone. After all, if we "offend" them they will take away what we think is a right but is really a privilege as long as we do what they say in fear they will take it away.
And make no mistake... anyone who is "offended" by the sight of a gun IS an anti. It might be a matter of degree of anti gun attitude or belief... such as... --I support the 2nd Amendment but not in a library-- being only a percentage of anti gunnery... but it still goes against "shall not be infringed".
I've heard people say ... just because I can doesn't mean I should... and I believe they are missing the point. And that point is... if you don't when you can because you are afraid someone will be "offended" or "scared" you are allowing someone else to control (infringe upon) your right to do it.
The first step in taking away the right to bear arms begins with making the bearing of arms a privilege people must ask permission to have. Next will be any type of carry other than the privilege of carrying with a license blessed by the government will be illegal. And after that the qualifications for getting the license will become more restrictive... until only those with that licensed privilege will be just those in the government.
And it all starts with the idea that in order to not "offend" or "scare" anyone we must hide our guns... we must carry them only in places ... and in ways..... and for reasons... that won't "offend" or "scare" anyone...... but only after asking permission.
-They told me I couldn't carry my gun in plain sight...
-Then they told me I couldn't carry my hidden gun in many different places, including the library..
-Then they told me I couldn't carry my gun anywhere but inside my house.........
-Then they told me I couldn't carry my gun...
-Then they told me I couldn't even have my gun...
-All because my gun "offends" and "scares" people.....
-And I went along with it all because... "just because I can doesn't mean I should"....
TheQ
Regular Member
First they came for the long arm OCers and I said nothing because I don't OC a long arm.
Then they came for the OCers and I said nothing because I didn't OC.
Then they came for the concealed carriers and I said nothing because I don't carry.
Then they came for those who hunt and I said nothing because I don't hunt.
Then they came for anyone who has a gun in their home -- and no one was left to defend me.
Then they came for the OCers and I said nothing because I didn't OC.
Then they came for the concealed carriers and I said nothing because I don't carry.
Then they came for those who hunt and I said nothing because I don't hunt.
Then they came for anyone who has a gun in their home -- and no one was left to defend me.
dbhsig
Regular Member
WOW! I've been lurking here a long time and it's posts like this that keep me coming back!
DanM
Regular Member
From what I've read from Breda and a few others over there that appear to put agreeing with her over critical thinking and discussion, that's not a bad thing. I don't try to earn favors from Fudds or anti-gun folks.
springerdave
Regular Member
We need to have people that are Freedom Minded, those like BikeNut, guiding our policies at the highest levels. I await your next "rant" with anticipation. Well said, BikeNut.springerdave.
Shadow Bear
Michigan Moderator
And all the while, those society should fear most, will still have their weapons. No law dissuades the criminal, intent on practicing his craft.
We outlawed government interference in peoples' lives, and yet they still do
We outlawed slavery, yet it still exists today
We outlawed alcohol, yet it was available
We outlawed drugs, yet they are available on every street
We outlawed robbery, murder, child abuse, spouse abuse, yet it is a fact of daily life
And this is just in suburban America. I, for one, don't want to end up like the Egyptians, defending their homes & lives with a broom handle as vandals & looters took advantage of the political unrest to line their pockets.
The Inbredas of the world should be more scared of the criminal element than a lawfully carried sidearm.
Rich B
Regular Member
+1 Seriously.
I get this kind of stuff all the time in CT (where most of our police and citizens think OC is illegal despite having absolutely no statutes to support this claim) where people think we shouldn't let people know we are allowed to OC because they might take it away.
Well, what good is the right to OC if you never do it and people are being arrested for printing or OCing?
Carry on, you guys seem to have a great crew. If I am ever out that way, I hope to run across some MOC members to shake some hands.
MarineSgt
Regular Member
Why does their (antis) feeling of safety trump our (pro 2a) feeling of safety?
It is a cultural thing. They believe that the collective > individual.
By OCing we are being proactive in changing our culture by teaching that carrying a gun is an acceptable practice in society.
Don't be surprised at the backlash, OCing is currently a taboo in our culture. Therefore, society will do what they have to in order to bring us back to the social norm, it's what culture does. If we continue to resist this pressure to conform and continue to grow and spread we will eventually change the culture.
It is a cultural thing. They believe that the collective > individual.
By OCing we are being proactive in changing our culture by teaching that carrying a gun is an acceptable practice in society.
Don't be surprised at the backlash, OCing is currently a taboo in our culture. Therefore, society will do what they have to in order to bring us back to the social norm, it's what culture does. If we continue to resist this pressure to conform and continue to grow and spread we will eventually change the culture.
Venator
Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Your writing just gets better and better, those smart pills you have been taking seem to be working.
Haman J.T.
New member
Thanks Bikenut,for telling folks what my thoughts are on the subject of true Freedom and Liberty and the meaning of our constitution as our Founders wrote! CARRY ON!
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