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wilding teen mobs

MKEgal

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This has been an increasing problem across the country.
I know there have been many attacks in Chicago, & I've read of them happening elsewhere.
Now it's come to my town, & in the WI thread we sort of started this discussion, but I thought it was more appropriate over here:

MKEgal said:
Started by hitting a gas station, then they attacked people in a park.
Store security camera video available w/ the story here.
Has some good shots of various kids' faces, so maybe some of them will be brought to justice.
A group of friends hanging out at Reservoir Park in Milwaukee were attacked and robbed around midnight on July 4th.
The victims said a group of nearly 50 teenagers came running down North Avenue early Monday morning.
...a group of teens looted the BP gas station... at North Humboldt and East North Avenues.
The surveillance video showed boys and girls snatching chips, beverages and entire display cases before running out of the store.
...residents said this same group of teenagers have been running around the Riverwest neighborhood for weeks.
Riverwest is pretty nice, but the park they mention is between there & the start of some really crappy areas of the city.
Just once, I'd like to see a store clerk hit by these wilding mobs lock the door, stand in front of it w/ a pistol & phone, & call 911.

rcawdor57 said:
Since the title of this thread is "No Need For A Gun?" what would a person do if this happened to them?

With that many assailants you would quickly run out of pepper spray or if carrying an electric weapon (in the future of course) you would be unable to stop that many. If you used your gun you would be arrested (most likely) with our current laws (ie. no real Castle Doctrine in Wisconsin).

Is it time to consider a high capacity handgun and carry more than three high capacity magazines? I think this kind of thing will occur more and more and spread to many more neighborhoods.

In the comments on the article above, I posted that I think being attacked by a mob is a threat to life & limb & would shoot, or if on a jury I would vote against penalties for someone else who shot. I think that's covered under current self-defense law, though I look forward to SYG & Castle Doctrine making things safer for citizens.

As for multiple high-capacity (or even average capacity) magazines, I don't think it would take stopping more than 2 or 3 of the assailants before the rest would turn tail & run. In a "target-rich environment" like an attacking mob, that could probably even be done with a CA-legal reduced-capacity magazine.
 
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Badger Johnson

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USA
The way to handle it is to partner up, both parties carrying. Though a 'mob' might get aggressive against a lone person with a partner you have

1. A witness;
2. Someone who can run the recorder and present a non-lethal option;
3. Give advice and remind the other of tactics ("get out the OC spray"; "get in the car and start it up")
4. Get a cross-fire going;
5. Have an emotional reason to use SD (In protection of my loved one);
6. Harder, tactically, to swarm two or more victims.

I'd be much more willing to shoot if they were attacking my gf, whether she was armed or not - it gives a moral high ground. It's harder to evade, you can't leave a loved one behind.

$.02
 

thebigsd

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Mar 23, 2010
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Quarryville, PA
This has been an increasing problem across the country.
I know there have been many attacks in Chicago, & I've read of them happening elsewhere.
Now it's come to my town, & in the WI thread we sort of started this discussion, but I thought it was more appropriate over here:





In the comments on the article above, I posted that I think being attacked by a mob is a threat to life & limb & would shoot, or if on a jury I would vote against penalties for someone else who shot. I think that's covered under current self-defense law, though I look forward to SYG & Castle Doctrine making things safer for citizens.

As for multiple high-capacity (or even average capacity) magazines, I don't think it would take stopping more than 2 or 3 of the assailants before the rest would turn tail & run. In a "target-rich environment" like an attacking mob, that could probably even be done with a CA-legal reduced-capacity magazine.

I would agree. I think the mob would disperse if met with deadly force. An extra magazine is never a bad idea though. what is the mentality behind these random attacks?
 

Badger Johnson

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The reason, though, that kids are feeling invulnerable doing this is they know no one wants to harm a (single) kid. Though they are a 'mob', if you harm one, they become a 'teenager' who is a good kid just trying to turn his life around and got 'caught up' and wasn't thinking.

Believe me, you do not want to have shot a teenager. If you can partner up (or even keep to small groups) you have a good chance (if also armed) to avoid being a victim.
 

MKEgal

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thebigsd said:
what is the mentality behind these random attacks?
Bored kids with a severe lack of parental attention all their lives.
There's no "mentality" to it - it's done for "fun", even the attacks on people.

Badger Johnson said:
If you can partner up (or even keep to small groups) you have a good chance (if also armed) to avoid being a victim.
The people referred to in the article, & seen on the news video, were in a group.
The mob was bigger.
But the victims weren't armed.
Some may see it as cold, but I pointed out in the article comments that they have the same ability to carry openly as I do, but chose not to, and suffered the consequences.

I could see going back to back w/ someone in that situation, & I'd love to see the looks on the faces of those little hooligans if they stumbled across an OC picnic. :rolleyes:
Facing a line of armed adults, even if the pistols were still holstered, I bet they'd decide to leave.

I agree, I wouldn't want to have shot a teen... But with other witnesses, & maybe injuries, hopefully the police & DA would have some sense. We really need to get a SYG law passed soon.
 
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okboomer

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Oklahoma, USA
http://www.warriortalknews.com/
Scroll down to how to deal with flash mobs.
Seems like good advice to me.

This article brings up a topic I have discussed with my ex on more than one occassion. The way the citizens in the US have been trained to believe that the use of force is wrong. Now, I believe the mis-use of force is wrong, but I can remember back in the 1970s after carrying a concealed handgun was legislated away, New York City was a hotbed of shootings and violence (some of it mob-related) and the Mayor and Chief of Police being interviewed saying, "We're here to protect you, so don't take matters into your own hands, just call us and we'll be there."

Well, we see how well that worked out. Thugs became bolder because they knew their victims would not be armed. Rapists growing ever more bold because their victims were unarmed. While thugs and drug dealers were carrying with near-impugnity because the only others who had weapons were the cops.

It took me a long time to actually break that conditioning. And I have met many people from other countries who look at Amerikinskis as violent and nearly sub-human. Yet, in their country, they have not been able to own self-defense weapons for decades and would never dream of resisting someone trying to rob or even kill themselves.

We are not just fighting for the right to carry a weapon for self-defense, we are fighting for the right to actually defend ourselves.
 

eye95

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Fairborn, Ohio, USA
I would agree. I think the mob would disperse if met with deadly force. An extra magazine is never a bad idea though. what is the mentality behind these random attacks?

Why would anyone need 30 rounds for self-defense?

[/sarcasm]

I am not going to carry with a 30-rounder lodged in the grip and protruding behind me like a tail, however I have a 15-rounder in my new Glock and two spare 10-rounders in my magazine holster. I have little doubt that, if I get a chance to deploy it against a mob with violent intent against me, they will disperse before all 36 rounds are spent.
 

HandyHamlet

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Terra, Sol
Prosecutor: "At ANY time did ANY of the children lay a hand on you?"

Defendant: "... well, er, no. But there was like 50 of..."

Prosecutor: "Thank you for answering the question. Now. Not one of these children harmed you in any way?"

Defendant: "... no. And they weren't "Children"."

Prosecutor: "Yet you saw fit to unload three clips from your highly customized concealed weapon. Loaded with special bullets to maximize killing. {turns dramatically to the jury} Into a group of good church going children, who were just trying to enjoy a peaceful bible reading in the park. At 1:30am. Children in the process of turning their lives around. And maybe even getting on the honor roll in the very distant future. Some of them might have even enrolled in a technical college if they got their GED. "

Defendant: "... but, ah, they were..."

Prosecutor " But? But they will never see that honor roll now. Will they Mr/Mrs. *******? Will they?"

Defendant: "BUT, ah, they were gonna..."

Prosecutor: "Gonna what? We have 50 witnesses that say you drew and fired on them UNPROVOKED."
 
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eye95

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The standard applied in most States is called "the reasonable man standard." Would a reasonable man, in the same situation, believe that he (or another) faced the level of danger that State law requires to allow deadly force to be used for defense of self (or others)?

Anyone who would be incompetent at answering prosecutor questions while on the stand shouldn't necessarily assume that others would be equally incompetent.

Just keep falling back on, "There were so many of them, coming at me from several directions, saying threatening things (recount them) and taking hostile actions (recount those too) that I felt that I was in imminent danger of losing my life." Rinse. Repeat.
 

Gunslinger

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The standard applied in most States is called "the reasonable man standard." Would a reasonable man, in the same situation, believe that he (or another) faced the level of danger that State law requires to allow deadly force to be used for defense of self (or others)?

Anyone who would be incompetent at answering prosecutor questions while on the stand shouldn't necessarily assume that others would be equally incompetent.

Just keep falling back on, "There were so many of them, coming at me from several directions, saying threatening things (recount them) and taking hostile actions (recount those too) that I felt that I was in imminent danger of losing my life." Rinse. Repeat.

http://www.nacdl.org/public.nsf/698...f587d7d10c34fff2852572b90069bc3c?OpenDocument
 

MKEgal

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HandyHamlet said:
Could you post links please?
The link in the 1st post goes to a news story w/ video from WTMJ (4).
Other stations in the MKE area picked it up yesterday (not really on top of things).
This is from Fox...
The victims were brought to one woman's house nearby the reservoir by her daughter. "According to the kids they were pushed down, kicked in the face, kicked in the head," she said. "I had four young people in my kitchen who had been beaten and we took care of them, tended to their wounds and held them while they cried."
The injuries needed stitches and one woman needs surgery for a fractured jaw.
But the attackers are just "kids", right?
This is the first I'd heard that children were attacked too.

Apparently some parents are starting to do the right thing & turn their kids in.

Looking at the kids in these still photos made from the video it's disgusting how they're laughing & smiling while they loot. And the news site makes sure to say they're "persons of interest, not suspects", even though they're caught on video looting.

Chief Flynn defending his officers...
The victims were critical of police saying officers made them feel like it was their fault for getting attacked...
Police say there were at least six armed robberies with at least eleven victims, most around the same time as the looting.
This is astonishing:
[A victim] said, "19 people had stayed at the top of the hill to find stolen possessions, find friends and to give statements."
Flynn responded, "We're not likely to take 19 separate statements about a single crime given our other obligations at that time."

And Mayor Barrett defending the police...
The Mayor of Milwaukee is defending Police Chief Ed Flynn, saying he thinks people who live in his city are safe after the recent attacks in Riverwest on July 3rd and the early morning of July 4th.
Of course he thinks it's safe! HE has police protection.
It was an unusual situation
No it wasn't. Listen to what residents say - the robberies, attacks, & mobs happen frequently.
 

HandyHamlet

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No it wasn't. Listen to what residents say - the robberies, attacks, & mobs happen frequently.

Guess the Mayor has honesty issues.

"It's Christmas week. A guy's trying to drive down the street. What's the problem here?" said Mayor Tom Barrett.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,179941,00.html#ixzz1ROFSgqmz


Several Questioned in Milwaukee Driver's Beating

Wednesday, December 28, 2005

Police said he was pulled from the car, and witnesses said they saw some attackers climb on cars and jump on the victim's head.

Britney King said she and her two sisters saw the attackers doing flips and cartwheels from cars onto the man.

"It looked like they were having a block party," she said.

Several mob beatings have taken place in Milwaukee's inner city in recent years. In 2002, more than a dozen people, mostly boys, chased a man through the streets and beat him to death with shovel handles, rakes and tree limbs.

A man with schizophrenia died after being beaten and robbed by a group in 2004. Six teens were charged; one was convicted, charges against four were dropped and one is awaiting trial.

Four days after that attack, a 14-year-old boy was kicked, punched and hit on the head with a piece of lumber after he exchanged words with a girl. He was in a coma for two weeks. Also that summer, four brothers were beaten by a group armed with bats, bottles, sticks and socks stuffed with canned food.
 

Gunslinger

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Probably the best I've read on self defense and written so laymen can understand. You don't always see that in acticles written by and for lawyers.

Colorado holds that, if the defendant is not the initial aggressor or engaged in mutual combat, he “is not obliged to retreat or flee to save his life, but may stand his ground, and even, in some circumstances, pursue his assailant until the latter has been disarmed or disabled from carrying into effect his unlawful purpose; and this right of the defendant goes even to the extent, if necessary, of taking human life.”

We have one of the best self defense laws in the country and were the first in the nation to enact Castle Doctrine, the "Make my day" law.
 
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Sky1

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Sep 20, 2011
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Careful, some heavy language used

Why did the cops not help these people?

[video=youtube;734x-x9Mp7I]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=734x-x9Mp7I[/video]
 
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