Dos and don't of open carry article

Hey now, take it easy.

The one absolute truth that he talked about, which can not be refuted, is the fact that everyone needs more training.

All of you guys giving him crap in this thread....how much training have you had/how long has it been?

I like you guys, you're good guys. I may need your help someday fighting bad guys.

I would very much like it if you were.....above average.

Yeah, even you brainless.... I've never said you were a bad guy. I know you're not. I just wish you didn't do so much dumb stuff.

Thanks Doug, that actually means quite a bit coming from you especially.

Peace.

So the guy doesn't care about OC....


WGASA

dougwg said:

The one absolute truth that he talked about, which can not be refuted, is the fact that everyone needs more training.

All of you guys giving him crap in this thread....how much training have you had/how long has it been?

I like you guys, you're good guys. I may need your help someday fighting bad guys.

I would very much like it if you were.....above average.

Yeah, even you brainless.... I've never said you were a bad guy. I know you're not. I just wish you didn't do so much dumb stuff.

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I like above average people being able to defend me, too. And, I think that everyone here is above average (just like in Lake Wobegon as described by Garrison Keillor.) But, I don't think anyone is advocating not getting training whenever possible; that is only wise. And, I too believe the more the better. But, on the other side of the coin, do you want to limit a person's ability to defend themselves because they don't have X amount of hours in training? Do titles such as his really mean anything? I don't know.
I don't think that what you are advocating is that there needs to be mandatory training, but many citizens in this country do. To me, every day that I drive I wish more people had paid attention in "driver's ed", or even took it in the first place. But, the authorities have deemed that driving is so important in our society that a very minimal amount of instruction, or no instruction at all, is needed to drive a car. I think being able to defend oneself with the best means possible is certainly more important than driving a car.

Yeah I know DrTodd, but what can we do..... I was just trying to point out a positive aspect of the piece.

BTW: I don't think he's the best person to write an article like that.

Sure he knows his chit, but it seems that he really doesn't know that much about OC, or at the very least, he biased against it.

dougwg said:

Yeah I know DrTodd, but what can we do..... I was just trying to point out a positive aspect of the piece.

BTW: I don't think he's the best person to write an article like that.

Sure he knows his chit, but it seems that he really doesn't know that much about OC, or at the very least, he biased against it.

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I understood what your were trying to say. And, I think the very fact that people are writing about OC, whether positive or negative, at least continues to put out the notion of it's legality (most places, at least). You have been here a relatively long time so I know you remember the days where most CCers didn't even know OC was possible. Now they "know" it's possible, but not advisable. The next step is that it may be advisable, but just something THEY don't feel comfortable doing... and I can respect that. We are getting there...

DrTodd said:

I like above average people being able to defend me, too. And, I think that everyone here is above average (just like in Lake Wobegon as described by Garrison Keillor.) But, I don't think anyone is advocating not getting training whenever possible; that is only wise. And, I too believe the more the better. But, on the other side of the coin, do you want to limit a person's ability to defend themselves because they don't have X amount of hours in training? Do titles such as his really mean anything? I don't know.

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This is why I want more places to go shoot that are like the Lapeer pit. I cant afford training, but before I found out that it wasnt allowed, I was shooting a couple times a week over in Holly. Thats the best I could do, so that's what I did.

If they would open the public hunting areas, where shooting already takes place, to target shooting, then anyone could easily do enough shooting to stay proficient. Its such a simple solution that its ridiculous.

DrTodd said:

I understood what your were trying to say. And, I think the very fact that people are writing about OC, whether positive or negative, at least continues to put out the notion of it's legality (most places, at least). You have been here a relatively long time so I know you remember the days where most CCers didn't even know OC was possible. Now they "know" it's possible, but not advisable. The next step is that it may be advisable, but just something THEY don't feel comfortable doing... and I can respect that. We are getting there...

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Yep, baby steps, and keep moving forward. Along with this is trying our damnedest to not take steps backward.

I know sometimes it unavoidable, but we should try very hard to not go in the wrong direction.

Kids and some adults nowadays what it all right now, some of us realize things take time.

stainless1911 said:

This is why I want more places to go shoot that are like the Lapeer pit. I cant afford training, but before I found out that it wasnt allowed, I was shooting a couple times a week over in Holly. Thats the best I could do, so that's what I did.

If they would open the public hunting areas, where shooting already takes place, to target shooting, then anyone could easily do enough shooting to stay proficient. Its such a simple solution that its ridiculous.

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There is no worse training then wrong training.

Forget the suppressor and take a handgun 1 course, you'll be glad you did and it's only around $100-$150 + 500-600 rounds

stainless1911 said:

This is why I want more places to go shoot that are like the Lapeer pit. I cant afford training, but before I found out that it wasnt allowed, I was shooting a couple times a week over in Holly. Thats the best I could do, so that's what I did.

If they would open the public hunting areas, where shooting already takes place, to target shooting, then anyone could easily do enough shooting to stay proficient. Its such a simple solution that its ridiculous.

Click to expand...

Wait, most public hunting lands are open to target shooting. Some rec areas, parks and research areas are not.

What I found out, was that the area I was in was part of the Holly Game Unit, and Holly recreation Area.
The CO told me that if it were up north, on state land, that it wouldnt be an issue at all.

I should have been more specific.

Seems that the only places open to target shooting are up north, wherever that is.

What would be the closest place to northern Oakland County?

I want to take a pistol course, if I come into a couple hundred bucks I would. I have to nickel and dime everything I do.

OT for sec, your indulgences please...

stainless1911 said:

This is why I want more places to go shoot that are like the Lapeer pit. I cant afford training, but before I found out that it wasnt allowed, I was shooting a couple times a week over in Holly. Thats the best I could do, so that's what I did.

If they would open the public hunting areas, where shooting already takes place, to target shooting, then anyone could easily do enough shooting to stay proficient. Its such a simple solution that its ridiculous.

Click to expand...

Stainless, with all due respect, I call BS on your statement above. My sincere hope is that you understand what I am trying to convey here...

The amount of time you spend on the computer posting various places means that you could ACTUALLY WORK doing some sort of work ON THE COMPUTER.

Don't have the training you say? I am sure because of your current status that there is help available. Are you aware that Michigan Rehabilitative Services (MRS) provides $$$ for college and/or vocational training? Are you aware of all the GRANTS/AID that are available? Are you aware of all the FREE TRAINING available via the INTERNET?

Can't be done you say?

I was a high-school dropout who at 23 yo got his life "together". I went back and took the 4 remaining classes for my diploma. I went to register for college and found out that Pell Grants and MI Adult Part-Time Grants were available (I did qualify for MRS $$$ but never used it). Only 1 semester was not covered, but I won the College Golf Scholarship which paid for everything other than books for that semester! I graduated Summa Cum Laude for my Associates Degree and landed an entry level position at a small software firm. 18 years and multiple companies later, I have taken that Associate Degree and used it to become Chief IT Architect for one of the largest computer companies for a global business unit of one of the largest manufacturing companies.

My mom went to college at 38 yo to become a teacher. It took her nearly 10 years to get her degree, which was one credit shy of her doctorate (long story why she never completed it). Her career took off just as my father had lost his Golf Professional Job after 18 years and was not "able" to find another Head Pro job (he signed for one of the first Black Golf Professionals in the early 1960's, needed an existing pro to sign for you, and it was held against him). Without her working, the family would have "failed". She taught for 18 years and handled her retirement quite nicely.

Wouldn't you really like to stand on your own two feet financially AND not rely on a Government Handout? Wouldn't you like to provide better for your daughter? Wouldn't you like to have your own property where you could go shooting on?

IT.CAN.BE.DONE.

YOU.CAN.DO.IT.

Wherever you are is a good place to start from...

Venator said:

Wait, most public hunting lands are open to target shooting. Some rec areas, parks and research areas are not.

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State Parks: NO
State Recreation Areas: NO (Unless there is a designated target shooting area)

R 299.927, Rule 27(b)
http://www.dnr.state.mi.us/publications/pdfs/RecreationCamping/IC3003-1_Park Rules_Poster.pdf

State Game Areas: YES (Unless posted)

http://www.dnr.state.mi.us/publications/pdfs/HuntingWildlifeHabitat/sga/std_back_rules.pdf

State Forests: YES (Unless posted)
Other State Land: YES (Unless posted)
Commercial Forests: Depends (IIRC Must be posted to allow)
National Forests: YES (Unless posted)
National Parks: NO (Unless there is a designated target shooting area)

Requirements: Identifiable Target, Good Backstop, No Attempt to Take Game.

PDinDetroit said:

Wouldn't you really like to stand on your own two feet financially AND not rely on a Government Handout? Wouldn't you like to provide better for your daughter? Wouldn't you like to have your own property where you could go shooting on?

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Yes.

Couple things in my way. Please dont take them as excuses, even though I hgave at times, used them as such.

Lack of confidence/fear, partially due to failed attempts. Partly due to lack of work experience. Its hard to step out of the comfort zone, even if its not that comfortable, at least the lights stay on. That part is temporary, I'll have to do something, just haven't completely come to terms with it. If I get in a position where I am off of .gov assistance, and things go south, I am going to be in a seriously bad spot. Im not sure quite how to bridge the gap between long term unemployment, and being able to make enough, with medical, to at least equal what I have now. Its a leap of faith thats for sure. I have no Idea what I want to study for. Ive tossed a few ideas about, but havent narrowed it down to a particular interest. One reason I havent started out after something, is that Im not sure which way to go.

I wanted to get into aviation, but dropped out because of the math. Many careers that pay anything at all, require math. Anything past basic division is nearly impossible. Ive had tutors, but it never sticks, if I learn it today, I wont know how to do it next week. Card games are the same way with me, I can learn and play a game with you, but if I come to play again next month, it doesnt stick. I can play chess though, so it depends what Im doing, if that makes any sense to you. I thought very seriously about becoming a cop many times, but I dont think that my back and asthma would let me do that job. I have A=fib as well, that can pose a problem.

To be honest, sitting in this trailer all day drives me up a wall sometimes, I hate it, and worry a lot about the future, scares the hell out of me. Its paralyzing, not laziness.

It seems that work is divided into two categories. Education based work, or physical work. Finding my spot in the midst of this has proven itself to be very challenging

I could work in a drug store McDonalds, or a Krogers, but what future is there in that? I feel dead in those jobs, my mind goes numb there. I want a place to use my head, something that isnt repetative. If I cant think on the job, It just gets me down. If its physical, like construction, my body cant keep up with it, and in 15 or 20 years when the body goes out, Im screwed. I dont have the book skills to be a lawyer or something, so that really narrows down the field.

stainless1911 said:

It seems that work is divided into two categories. Education based work, or physical work. Finding my spot in the midst of this has proven itself to be very challenging

I could work in a drug store McDonalds, or a Krogers, but what future is there in that? I feel dead in those jobs, my mind goes numb there. I want a place to use my head, something that isnt repetative. If I cant think on the job, It just gets me down. If its physical, like construction, my body cant keep up with it, and in 15 or 20 years when the body goes out, Im screwed. I dont have the book skills to be a lawyer or something, so that really narrows down the field.

Click to expand...

"Well, the world needs ditch diggers too."

stainless1911 said:

It seems that work is divided into two categories. Education based work, or physical work. Finding my spot in the midst of this has proven itself to be very challenging

I could work in a drug store McDonalds, or a Krogers, but what future is there in that? I feel dead in those jobs, my mind goes numb there. I want a place to use my head, something that isnt repetative. If I cant think on the job, It just gets me down. If its physical, like construction, my body cant keep up with it, and in 15 or 20 years when the body goes out, Im screwed. I dont have the book skills to be a lawyer or something, so that really narrows down the field.

Click to expand...

You seem to like firearms...just a guess, I know. Any interest in working in a gun shop or at a range, or have you looked at gunsmithing? I know that many people don't get wealthy doing this type of work, but I personally know a few who do better than "well". In fact, a friend's brother was unemployed, got some .gov money for career training, and started his own gunsmithing business working exclusively on high-end shotguns used for skeetshooting. You know what people are willing to pay to have work done on shotguns that cost more than my car? Just think, you may get to OC on the job, too.

I've considered it, yes. i am a bit mechanical to boot. Only schools Ive found are out of state, any suggestions? After I get a little more experience under my belt, I was thinking about teaching CPL courses as well.

Id get a bang out of working on guns.

How does a person get started, and educated in this field?

stainless1911 said:

Yes.

Couple things in my way. Please dont take them as excuses, even though I hgave at times, used them as such.

Lack of confidence/fear, partially due to failed attempts. Partly due to lack of work experience. Its hard to step out of the comfort zone, even if its not that comfortable, at least the lights stay on. That part is temporary, I'll have to do something, just haven't completely come to terms with it. If I get in a position where I am off of .gov assistance, and things go south, I am going to be in a seriously bad spot. Im not sure quite how to bridge the gap between long term unemployment, and being able to make enough, with medical, to at least equal what I have now. Its a leap of faith thats for sure. I have no Idea what I want to study for. Ive tossed a few ideas about, but havent narrowed it down to a particular interest. One reason I havent started out after something, is that Im not sure which way to go.

I wanted to get into aviation, but dropped out because of the math. Many careers that pay anything at all, require math. Anything past basic division is nearly impossible. Ive had tutors, but it never sticks, if I learn it today, I wont know how to do it next week. Card games are the same way with me, I can learn and play a game with you, but if I come to play again next month, it doesnt stick. I can play chess though, so it depends what Im doing, if that makes any sense to you. I thought very seriously about becoming a cop many times, but I dont think that my back and asthma would let me do that job. I have A=fib as well, that can pose a problem.

To be honest, sitting in this trailer all day drives me up a wall sometimes, I hate it, and worry a lot about the future, scares the hell out of me. Its paralyzing, not laziness.

Click to expand...

Sometimes it just takes one person to believe in you. When I went back to complete the last 4 classes at an Adult High School at 23 yo, I felt like a failure and soon that took over and I stopped going to classes. My Creative Writing Teacher liked what she saw of my writings and took it upon herself to arrange that if I came back and didn't miss any classes that I could pass (had A,A,A,C+ when I stopped going). Because of her believing in me, I aced everything for the second card marking and brought up the C+ to an A- (I looked her up years later to thank her, she was not surprised in the least how far I had come). There are people here on OCDO that would encourage you to take that first step "out there", even dougwg has done so.

As to "where to go", that will really get decided along with way - just moving forward is the important part. When told I could probably get my college paid for if I selected a MAJOR, I looked at all these little check boxes with possible selections and said "what do I want to do with the rest of my life?" (a daunting task!). Since I played with computers when I was younger (Commodore PET/CBM, No Hard Drive, No Floppy, Tape Cassette Drive, OS burned into EEPROMS), I decided that Computer Information Systems Degree was as good as any other selection (who would have knew it worked out so well!). BTW - I use little to no math in my daily work, nothing that Microsoft Excel cannot provide with a few simple equations (write once, use many).

As much as it may surprise you, we are in similar situations currently just how we got here and the choices facing us is different (I have "platinum plated" problems). I have raised my children to adulthood, I have achieved 95% of my Life's Goals, and Very Successful in my Career all at 45 yo. My current role, which I am "built for" has become boring to some degree and I can do it in my sleep (but is highly valued by my company). My current employer is BEGGING me to get my passport so I can go overseas and work out some New Solution Offerings to sell. I have thought about staying within my current company and going to lead an R&D Department or going back to Product Development which is were I started out in computing (started in Wireless Messaging and Embedded Type). I have had some possibilities to be involved in company leadership outside my current employer. I have a few patents that I would like to "chase down", one of which is VERY Promising. I have yet to move forward with any of those - still stuck in FEAR right now, but have started to move forward even though I do not where I will end up. It could be quite a lot I give up, especially if overseas and NO FIREARM RIGHTS. I do have a little more FAITH today that "it will all work out".

Keep going, it will work out for you too...