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Will we ever be allowed to carry in bars?

hvtopiwala

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2011
Messages
78
Location
Tampa, FL
i had a question, u think we will ever be allowed to carry in places such as bars, nightclubs, etc..? i feel like most violent crimes happen there more than any other place because the amount of drunk/crazy people there...

u think it will ever happen?
 

j4l

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2011
Messages
1,835
Location
fl
Unlikely in the extreme. For precisely the reasons you mentioned.
It's been done and tried-didnt work out so well for most folks. Booze and cars are bad enough. Booze, yahoos and guns in the same place?....not many good outcomes..
 

ixtow

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
5,038
Location
Suwannee County, FL
Unlikely in the extreme. For precisely the reasons you mentioned.
It's been done and tried-didnt work out so well for most folks. Booze and cars are bad enough. Booze, yahoos and guns in the same place?....not many good outcomes..

trollmickey.gif


Please show me a way to unsee Virginia, where until recently, it was REQUIRED and worked very well...
 

Kingfish

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
1,276
Location
Atlanta, Georgia, USA
It's been done and tried-didnt work out so well for most folks.
Cite please.

It is legal in CO and other states. It is legal in GA with owners permission. In GA, there is no law against drinking and carrying...Not even a law against being drunk and carrying.

I will challenge you to cite where there are issues (with LAW ABIDING CITIZENS) where it is legal.
 

77zach

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2007
Messages
2,913
Location
Marion County, FL
Unlikely in the extreme. For precisely the reasons you mentioned.
It's been done and tried-didnt work out so well for most folks. Booze and cars are bad enough. Booze, yahoos and guns in the same place?....not many good outcomes..

I think it's likely the ban will be repealed someday. It is ridiculous in the extreme and many states have no such prohibition. People have boozing parties every day at their homes with access to guns galore. What's the difference? Anyone who is for the bar ban hasn't thought it through very well.

Freedom is dead or dying in every single aspect of life today except for gun rights. The 2nd amendment is off of the respirator and breathing on its own again, even if it's still unconscious. If SB 234 passes, I have a glimmer of hope that most of those places on the list will be gone and we'll have constitutional carry here.
 

ixtow

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
5,038
Location
Suwannee County, FL
All I can find are citations to the opposite.

That and a whole lot of nothing bad happening.

It is impossible to prove a negative. Requesting that which is known to be impossible shows a desire to deceive on the part of the requesting entity.
 

77zach

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2007
Messages
2,913
Location
Marion County, FL
We're working on a responsible bill for this to be introduced next year.

Shouldn't be that hard of a sell, especially if it says carriers may not drink while at the bar. Schools will be more difficult, but after a few more states pass it and the sky doesn't fall, it will be easier. It's horrible that people are disarmed AROUND schools because they can't bring their guns IN school. Another thing that Fl is behind on is letting permit holders have concealed guns in their cars at public elementary and secondary schools. I can't even imagine how many felonies are committed every day by innocent parents picking up or dropping their kids off at school.
 
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j4l

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2011
Messages
1,835
Location
fl
Well. I was thinking of Tombstone in around 1881, but..

Should it be legal to do so?,sure why not. Should many folks be doing so? mm no..

example= can you imagine sitting in a bar, and 2 stools down is Ixtow with about 4 shots too many of tequila down the hatch, an AK-pistol duct-taped to the leg of his shorts,launching into a conspiracy rant?

mmmm not a good recipe.....
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
Well. I was thinking of Tombstone in around 1881, but..

Should it be legal to do so?,sure why not. Should many folks be doing so? mm no..

example= can you imagine sitting in a bar, and 2 stools down is Ixtow with about 4 shots too many of tequila down the hatch, an AK-pistol duct-taped to the leg of his shorts,launching into a conspiracy rant?

mmmm not a good recipe.....

See, that's just it. AS crazy as he might seem for duct-taping his AK-pistol to his short shorts, he is smart enough to know not to get plastered while carrying.

AFAIK the law against carrying under the influence has never been challenged to detemine what level of influence is the threshold point. Regardless, here in Virginia it is considered "bad form" to drink while carrying even though it is probably legal to do so when OCing (verboten if CCing).

We (all of us here at OCDO and most of the rest of the gun community) are law-abiding folk. That's the point the lawmakers and ninnies seem to miss. There are already laws against shooting folks, and against getting too drunk, and most everything else that's bad. There's no need to make another law against doing stuff already against the law while carrying. But the ninnies want to make sure that anything involving a gun is made double-plus-ultra illegal just because it was done within a hemisphere of an eeevilll gun.

stay safe.
 

j4l

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2011
Messages
1,835
Location
fl
Here's the thing. Im as hardcore gun-nut as the rest. Probably more so. Im not big on nanny-state laws,etc. either-far from it. BUT, one exception I do have is folks in bars, drinking with thier gun on thier hips.
Yes, Im sure most folks consider themselves to be mature enough, and possessing enough common-sense to handle themselves, their drinks AND their gun at the same time.BUT -Im not as open to the idea of a benefit of a doubt for most folks.
I like my drinks as much as anyone, but I dont frequent bars/night clubs much, if at all, myself.
But we all know one or two boneheads who -when sober- are perfectly sane, rational folks. But get a beer or 9 into them, and common-sense and rationality go right down the toilet. Do I really want that clown to be packing when he/she does go off the deep end?

Heck, the sheer number of DUI's and drunk-driving accidents resulting in death, and sometimes even worse-severe injuries- to others ,should be testament enough to why it's not the brightest idea. With a gun, the bonehead doesnt even have to go anywhere else to bring a lot of lives to end.
 

celticredneck

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2008
Messages
168
Location
Amelia County, virginia
There is a big difference in Virginia, and it was argued over and over during the period where the "so called concealed carry in bars" was passed. We don't have bars in Virginia. So, we can now conceal carry in restaurants which serve alcohol in Virginia. I for one do not go to those establishments to drink, but to dine out. Do I carry there? Yes, most of the time. Do I drink while carrying? No. I treat it the same as when I'm driving. If I plan on drinking, I don't drink or drive. I use a designated driver, and my wife will soon be able to carry concealed. She can already open carry.

And, oh yes, guess what. In the year or so since Conceal carry in places which serve alcohol was passed there has not been a rash of gun/alcohol related incidents(as predicted by the antis). Of course we all knew that would be true since we've always been able to open carry in alcohol serving establishments.
 
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StogieC

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
Messages
745
Location
Florida
A few weeks ago my wife and I went to dinner with friends for a birthday. It was starting to rain outside when we got to the restaurant and the place was pretty busy. We were told it would be about a 30 minute wait for our table.

The only places available to wait for our table were outside (in the rain) or the bar area where a table had just opened up.

Option 1: Wait at the bar.
Option 2: Wait at a bar section table.
Option 3: Get wet.
Option 4: Go elsewhere.

Well, I had a dilemma. I was lawfully carrying a concealed firearm and that made options 1 and 2 a criminal act in Florida. Option 4 was not really a viable option, the birthday girl had chosen this restaurant and had been looking forward to the meal there for weeks.

So, being a law abiding and responsible person I did what nobody other than a person carrying a firearm would do. I got wet and was disarmed.
I ran to my vehicle in the pouring rain and discretely put my firearm in the glove-box.
When I returned the restaurant I was soaked. I went immediately to the restroom to try off with those little paper towels that barely dry your hands properly.

By the time I got reasonably dried off and rejoined my bewildered party, our table was ready.

Florida's bar area ban is overly restrictive and serves no useful purpose other than to put a chilling effect on carry by lawful and responsible people who choose to take responsibility for the safety of themselves and their loved ones.
 
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77zach

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2007
Messages
2,913
Location
Marion County, FL
A few weeks ago my wife and I went to dinner with friends for a birthday. It was starting to rain outside when we got to the restaurant and the place was pretty busy. We were told it would be about a 30 minute wait for our table.

The only places available to wait for our table were outside (in the rain) or the bar area where a table had just opened up.

Option 1: Wait at the bar.
Option 2: Wait at a bar section table.
Option 3: Get wet.
Option 4: Go elsewhere.

Well, I had a dilemma. I was lawfully carrying a concealed firearm and that made options 1 and 2 a criminal act in Florida. Option 4 was not really a viable option, the birthday girl had chosen this restaurant and had been looking forward to the meal there for weeks.

So, being a law abiding and responsible person I did what nobody other than a person carrying a firearm would do. I got wet and was disarmed.
I ran to my vehicle in the pouring rain and discretely put my firearm in the glove-box.
When I returned the restaurant I was soaked. I went immediately to the restroom to try off with those little paper towels that barely dry your hands properly.

By the time I got reasonably dried off and rejoined my bewildered party, our table was ready.

Florida's bar area ban is overly restrictive and serves no useful purpose other than to put a chilling effect on carry by lawful and responsible people who choose to take responsibility for the safety of themselves and their loved ones.

I have carried in the "bar area" but not at the bar itself. That's at least what the seminole county sheriff's office believes is the law.
 

StogieC

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
Messages
745
Location
Florida
I have carried in the "bar area" but not at the bar itself. That's at least what the seminole county sheriff's office believes is the law.

Never accept a legal opinion from a law enforcement officer. That is the purview of the courts and and attorney general. In this case, the Seminole County Sheriff has dangerously misinformed you.

Florida Statute 790.06(12)
"No license issued pursuant to this section shall authorize any person to carry a concealed weapon or firearm into... any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose, ..."
 
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StogieC

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
Messages
745
Location
Florida
Florida Statute 790.06(12)
"No license issued pursuant to this section shall authorize any person to carry a concealed weapon or firearm into... any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose, ..."

Florida Firearms Attorney Patrick Buckley has produced a video to help clear up confusion about prohibited places...
The bar area issue is addressed at 6:00 in the video

[video=youtube;D8DgfmC5LoE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8DgfmC5LoE[/video]
 

77zach

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2007
Messages
2,913
Location
Marion County, FL
Never accept a legal opinion from a law enforcement officer. That is the purview of the courts and and attorney general. In this case, the Seminole County Sheriff has dangerously misinformed you.

Florida Statute 790.06(12)
"No license issued pursuant to this section shall authorize any person to carry a concealed weapon or firearm into... any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose, ..."

"Primarily devoted to such purpose" I'm talking about at, say, outback steakhouse, the "bar area." The tables, not the stools at the bar. Looking at the tables in this bar area everyone was eating steaks and hamburgers drinking ice teas and cokes. The law is ambiguous enough to keep me from OCing in that area but not CC. If I was found out and arrested (exceedingly remote possibility) I don't think I'd be convicted. Do you know of examples where people have been convicted for eating at the tables around but separate from the bar?
 

StogieC

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
Messages
745
Location
Florida
"Primarily devoted to such purpose" I'm talking about at, say, outback steakhouse, the "bar area." The tables, not the stools at the bar. Looking at the tables in this bar area everyone was eating steaks and hamburgers drinking ice teas and cokes. The law is ambiguous enough to keep me from OCing in that area but not CC. If I was found out and arrested (exceedingly remote possibility) I don't think I'd be convicted. Do you know of examples where people have been convicted for eating at the tables around but separate from the bar?

I'm going to trust my attorney, who is a specialist in Florida firearms law and CWFL instructor, on this one. Best to not be in the bar area.
See video w/ pixar quality graphics.
 
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