• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Showing ID to police

Keighvin

Newbie
Joined
Apr 2, 2016
Messages
3
Location
DelCo, PA
Good day. I joined today to ask a "simple" question.
When asked to show ID does this imply that i can retain possession of my state issued document? Am i required to let the officer take possession of my documents? I ask because when I was much younger I was stopped for a traffic violation. When attempting to return my Driver License a gust of wind took hold of the license and it was lost. The officer was apologetic but I was without a license until it was replaced. This put me in the position of operating a vehicle without a license in my possession. I know that this seems like a simple situation but I live close to the "City of Brotherly Love" and the officers there still seem to think that they are God. The situation has improved some but a lot of the officers do not follow the laws. OC in the city requires you to have a LTCF as does carrying while in a vehicle. I see no reason that an officer needs to take possession of my documents, he or she has a pen and paper and can write down the information. I fully realize that this introduces a point of failure but the officer should take accurate notes.
Thank you.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Good day. I joined today to ask a "simple" question.
When asked to show ID does this imply that i can retain possession of my state issued document? Am i required to let the officer take possession of my documents? I ask because when I was much younger I was stopped for a traffic violation. When attempting to return my Driver License a gust of wind took hold of the license and it was lost. The officer was apologetic but I was without a license until it was replaced. This put me in the position of operating a vehicle without a license in my possession. I know that this seems like a simple situation but I live close to the "City of Brotherly Love" and the officers there still seem to think that they are God. The situation has improved some but a lot of the officers do not follow the laws. OC in the city requires you to have a LTCF as does carrying while in a vehicle. I see no reason that an officer needs to take possession of my documents, he or she has a pen and paper and can write down the information. I fully realize that this introduces a point of failure but the officer should take accurate notes.
Thank you.
State specific query - moving it to the Pa. sub-forum
 

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
When RAS or PC is the cause for a vehicle stop, the cop can demand your DL. Period. Don't like it or afraid he might lose it? Then don't drive or drive w/o a license and pay the fines and other issues associated with driving w/o a license.

Harsh but to the point.

Welcome to the forum. You post had little stated to link to OCing .... seemed all relevant to driving.

Make a copy of your DL ? Put it in a safety deposit box for safe keeping.

http://www.theeditorialcartoons.com/store/add.php?iid=7583
 
Last edited:

Maverick9

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
1,404
Location
Mid-atlantic
If you're worried about it get a lanyard, and/or put the license in a sleeve and weight it down. I don't think most officers would make you take off the lanyard, but at least that would prevent most windy day mishaps.

ETA: drive carefully and you're unlikely to ever encounter this again. I've only been stopped one time in several decades.
 
Last edited:

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,936
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
If you're worried about it get a lanyard, and/or put the license in a sleeve and weight it down. I don't think most officers would make you take off the lanyard, but at least that would prevent most windy day mishaps.

ETA: drive carefully and you're unlikely to ever encounter this again. I've only been stopped one time in several decades.
That does not prove that you are a law abiding citizen....:lol:

My father in-law had one ticket in his 90 years of life. Yet, I felt I was putting my life in jeopardy when I got in the car with him when he was driving.....So, not getting a ticket means nothing.....
 

Maverick9

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
1,404
Location
Mid-atlantic
That does not prove that you are a law abiding citizen....:lol:

My father in-law had one ticket in his 90 years of life. Yet, I felt I was putting my life in jeopardy when I got in the car with him when he was driving.....So, not getting a ticket means nothing.....

What actually invalidates my premise is that the one time I was stopped I wasn't speeding. I had cruise control set on 55mph +/- 1mph. The officer's radar picked up a Trailways Bus which sped by me at 72mph, but he was too late to catch them so he stopped me.

It was in Gootchland county where they operate on a quota system and a car is as good as a bus for a ticket quota.
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,936
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
What actually invalidates my premise is that the one time I was stopped I wasn't speeding. I had cruise control set on 55mph +/- 1mph. The officer's radar picked up a Trailways Bus which sped by me at 72mph, but he was too late to catch them so he stopped me.

It was in Gootchland county where they operate on a quota system and a car is as good as a bus for a ticket quota.
No, absolutely not. That stuff just does not happen. Quotas, you jest. Spreading these types of rumors does not move this nation forward. I can see a executive order being issued at any moment.
 

Maverick9

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
1,404
Location
Mid-atlantic
No, absolutely not. That stuff just does not happen. Quotas, you jest. Spreading these types of rumors does not move this nation forward. I can see a executive order being issued at any moment.

Are you using sarcasm font? I assure you it was a completely bogus stop, and I had been warned about Goochland county. (This was in the late 80s).

Here's an article exposing them (in Chesapeake) in 2014:

http://wtvr.com/2014/07/14/chesterfield-quota-investigation/

Goochland is even more notorious.
 

stealthyeliminator

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
3,100
Location
Texas
The driver's license belongs to the state. It is not your license even though you pay a user tax for the privilege to drive.
Well, that'll be their contention at least. In reality the state legitimately owns practically nothing.
What actually invalidates my premise is that the one time I was stopped I wasn't speeding. I had cruise control set on 55mph +/- 1mph. The officer's radar picked up a Trailways Bus which sped by me at 72mph, but he was too late to catch them so he stopped me.

It was in Gootchland county where they operate on a quota system and a car is as good as a bus for a ticket quota.
Sounds familiar. Radar said someone was speeding, so just pull over whatever vehicle is most convenient. I think it happens more often than any cop would like to admit.
Are you using sarcasm font? I assure you it was a completely bogus stop, and I had been warned about Goochland county. (This was in the late 80s).

Here's an article exposing them (in Chesapeake) in 2014:

http://wtvr.com/2014/07/14/chesterfield-quota-investigation/

Goochland is even more notorious.

I know of a case where an officer told someone he had stopped that if they write enough tickets they get a bonus. I guess he didn't realize that was bad, and didn't realize his department wouldn't want him sharing that information with the public. :rolleyes:
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
When I was first becoming active with my local PD, academy and review board, I did a ride along with our ticket-nazi. His parents had been killed by a speeder and he had a true animus. He was expert with his radar and demonstrated to my satisfaction his ability to pick the fastest car out of a speeding pack. In our eight hour shift he wrote legitimate 40 speeding tickets.

About DL, at fourthamendment.com there is a court case reported this morning that is captioned as a cop holding ones DL is coercion as the driver is not free to leave.
http://fourthamendment.com/?p=21534
 

Steve in PA

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2006
Messages
158
Location
Somewhere in PA
During a traffic stop, the driver is required to produce all three to the officer. That means...........give them to the officer. Just because the officer is holding your license doesn't mean you can't drive away. Of course, unless the officer said you were free to go, he's probably going to pursue you.

Unless there are underlying circumstances, the courts have ruled a "normal" traffic stop cannot last beyond what has been deemed to be reasonable.
 
Last edited:

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
During a traffic stop, the driver is required to produce all three to the officer. That means...........give them to the officer. Just because the officer is holding your license doesn't mean you can't drive away. Of course, unless the officer said you were free to go, he's probably going to pursue you.

Unless there are underlying circumstances, the courts have ruled a "normal" traffic stop cannot last beyond what has been deemed to be reasonable.

could you define your use of the term 'all three' as it would be appreciated.

unfortunately, the 'courts' and the nice LE who has you pulled over have different concepts over the term 'reasonable'...and the fight is on the citizens plate to spend the $$$$ and time pushing the shopping cart through the judicial gauntlet to only hear 'there is a new time limit for reasonable'.

ipse
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,936
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Are you using sarcasm font? I assure you it was a completely bogus stop, and I had been warned about Goochland county. (This was in the late 80s).

Here's an article exposing them (in Chesapeake) in 2014:

http://wtvr.com/2014/07/14/chesterfield-quota-investigation/

Goochland is even more notorious.
Me, being sarcastic? I'm limited to being sarcastic once a week. I have been accused of exceeding that limit on a number of occasions. If I do it again this week I'll violate the rule.
 
Last edited:

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
Me, being sarcastic? I'm limited to being sarcastic once a week. I have been accused of exceeding that limit on a number of occasions. If I do it again this week I'll violate the rule.

no and i will attest to his limited sarcastic personality, for the right price...

(wait is that sarcasm ~ hummm:uhoh:)

ipse
 

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
When I was first becoming active with my local PD, academy and review board, I did a ride along with our ticket-nazi. His parents had been killed by a speeder and he had a true animus. He was expert with his radar and demonstrated to my satisfaction his ability to pick the fastest car out of a speeding pack. In our eight hour shift he wrote legitimate 40 speeding tickets.

About DL, at fourthamendment.com there is a court case reported this morning that is captioned as a cop holding ones DL is coercion as the driver is not free to leave.

That's not really hard to do .. is it?

And I read that 4th-A.com article too ... that guy got off big time! Rightfully so IMO.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Me, being sarcastic? I'm limited to being sarcastic once a week. I have been accused of exceeding that limit on a number of occasions. If I do it again this week I'll violate the rule.

Did someone say rule violation? :uhoh:

Being sarcastic continuously 24/7 could be said to be "once a week."
 
Last edited:

Steve in PA

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2006
Messages
158
Location
Somewhere in PA
could you define your use of the term 'all three' as it would be appreciated.

unfortunately, the 'courts' and the nice LE who has you pulled over have different concepts over the term 'reasonable'...and the fight is on the citizens plate to spend the $$$$ and time pushing the shopping cart through the judicial gauntlet to only hear 'there is a new time limit for reasonable'.

ipse

All three as in; 1) driver's license, 2) registration card and 3) insurance card. The PA Vehicle Code says you are required to produce all three when required.

The officer in the aforementioned article screwed the pooch. Either he did not know how long the courts have ruled a normal traffic stop should last or he plain ignored the ruling by the courts.
 
Top