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Guess what open carry.org member made FOX news !

JustaGlocklover

New member
Joined
May 12, 2011
Messages
7
Location
Fairfax County
Congratulations on the media exposure at foxnews.com
I pray to GOD above you sue the PPD for millions.
The prosecutor's office has taken a laughable position in the reckless endangerment and disorderly conduct charge. :banghead:

Fox news actually has a link to the audio recording too. :banana:

You are in my prayers, I know this is a stressful thing to go through.

Bless you.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
I like that later line in Stossel's report where the cops spent time calling supervisors to figure out what charges they could apply. Lovely, just lovely. If the cop didn't know the law before the seizure, he couldn't possibly have known whether he had authority to make the seizure in the first place.

Oh, and then the malicious prosecution after the fact. Lovely, just lovely.
 

Brion

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2011
Messages
160
Location
Goldsboro, NC

I have to say, the radio talk show host was very middle of the road, as you should be. He didn't try to make him look bad, he asked plain simple questions and didn't make any statements to the mindset. What bothers me is if you listen to the phone calls at the end of the Part 2. Every person that called in said he was a moron, or he was looking to start something. One person even said he hopes they charge him with a felony and take his guns away.

There is a message that needs to be sent out to America, that this right is a RIGHT and your opinion of it otherwise is just that, an opinion and has no weight as to what should be done. The Law is the law, and he has the law on his side. When LEOs charge people it's said "ignorance of the law is know excuse when you break the law." Same deal in philly. But here is the crap part, the person in charge of issuing firearm permits in philly didn't know OC was legal. Let me repeat myself "ignorance of the law is no excuse." That should be a two way street, alas it isn't.

I'm glad in NC I havn't had to deal with LEOs...yet. I don't care if you call it going Cowboy style or whatever for carrying on your hip. It's my right, I have the legal right to do it. You got a problem, go home and cry about it. I'm goin' home to have myself a lambchop and I'll be thinking of you.
 

tyc

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2011
Messages
137
Location
Pocono Mountains of PA
... the cops spent time calling supervisors to figure out what charges they could apply. ... If the cop didn't know the law before the seizure, he couldn't possibly have known whether he had authority to make the seizure in the first place.

Oh, and then the malicious prosecution after the fact.

There are "civil remedies" available to the agrieved and they can be expensive, very expensive for the cop, his supervisors, the head of the PD and the government entitiy involved.

When suing a municipal government, it's best to start at the proverbial "top" and above all else, make sure to specify the individuals as defendants in their individual capacity(ies).

Let "it" roll down hill - from the top to the bottom, exempt no one in the "chain of command."

tyc
 
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jt59

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2010
Messages
1,005
Location
Central South Sound
There are "civil remedies" available to the agrieved and they can be expensive, very expensive for the cop, his supervisors, the head of the PD and the government entitiy involved.

When suing a municipal government, it's best to start at the proverbial "top" and above all else, make sure to specify the individuals as defendants in their individual capacity(ies).

Let "it" roll down hill - from the top to the bottom, exempt no one in the "chain of command."

tyc

I agree, and if it happens I hope that it is followed to its conclusion with a successful trial. What I have seen too often is that a "settlement" is reached, training bulletins are issued, may or may not be any monetary fines, ruffled feathers are soothed and then we go straight back to the next time and next PD.

It's a dilemma to say the least, some folks would like to defend this to the end, but don't have the $$ resources to get it done, seek a "pro-bono" lawyer, who they think should be as outraged and care about these violations of rights, as much as the victim, and then to do it for free, or someone sets up a "contibution" link for my defense fund to which a small amount of money gets donated....or not.

Somehow we need to be able to develop a "body" of successful case law on a state by state basis, that can be relied upon and used going forward.

No easy answers of course, but if put into a similar defensible position, I can only say I plan to run it to the end. The only thing "they" will seem to react to is a financial burden, an officer with a public record and a department with an electable sherriff.

I am encouraged that Stossel has brought this to the forefront, but it's life span in the news cycle is limited to the next "big" thing....they need for viewer interest and information....which is often less than 24 hours.
 

Haman J.T.

New member
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
1,245
Location
, ,
I have to say, the radio talk show host was very middle of the road, as you should be. He didn't try to make him look bad, he asked plain simple questions and didn't make any statements to the mindset. What bothers me is if you listen to the phone calls at the end of the Part 2. Every person that called in said he was a moron, or he was looking to start something. One person even said he hopes they charge him with a felony and take his guns away.

There is a message that needs to be sent out to America, that this right is a RIGHT and your opinion of it otherwise is just that, an opinion and has no weight as to what should be done. The Law is the law, and he has the law on his side. When LEOs charge people it's said "ignorance of the law is know excuse when you break the law." Same deal in philly. But here is the crap part, the person in charge of issuing firearm permits in philly didn't know OC was legal. Let me repeat myself "ignorance of the law is no excuse." That should be a two way street, alas it isn't.

I'm glad in NC I havn't had to deal with LEOs...yet. I don't care if you call it going Cowboy style or whatever for carrying on your hip. It's my right, I have the legal right to do it. You got a problem, go home and cry about it. I'm goin' home to have myself a lambchop and I'll be thinking of you.
Ignorance of the law IS a two way street! It just cost the average citizen more money than they usualy have to pay a good pro-gun lawyer to express their grievance in Federal Court! Thats why we're here to help the citizens! 100 citizens donate $10 a piece,thats $1000 to get started!The more the better! I'm one of those who've donated several times to help in this fight against our employees,who hide behind our tax dollars when they violate their employers (the tax paying citizens)!
 

Haman J.T.

New member
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
1,245
Location
, ,
I agree, and if it happens I hope that it is followed to its conclusion with a successful trial. What I have seen too often is that a "settlement" is reached, training bulletins are issued, may or may not be any monetary fines, ruffled feathers are soothed and then we go straight back to the next time and next PD.

It's a dilemma to say the least, some folks would like to defend this to the end, but don't have the $$ resources to get it done, seek a "pro-bono" lawyer, who they think should be as outraged and care about these violations of rights, as much as the victim, and then to do it for free, or someone sets up a "contibution" link for my defense fund to which a small amount of money gets donated....or not.

Somehow we need to be able to develop a "body" of successful case law on a state by state basis, that can be relied upon and used going forward.

No easy answers of course, but if put into a similar defensible position, I can only say I plan to run it to the end. The only thing "they" will seem to react to is a financial burden, an officer with a public record and a department with an electable sherriff.

I am encouraged that Stossel has brought this to the forefront, but it's life span in the news cycle is limited to the next "big" thing....they need for viewer interest and information....which is often less than 24 hours.
True! But to do something is wiser than doing nothing! Always!
 

Dreamer

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
5,360
Location
Grennsboro NC
There are "civil remedies" available to the agrieved and they can be expensive, very expensive for the cop, his supervisors, the head of the PD and the government entitiy involved.


The beautiful thing about a Federal Civil Rights suit is that it ONLY costs the victim about $500 for the filing fee--ALL the other costs incurred are payed for by the US DOJ--lawyer fees, etc, because it is the Federal Government bringing the case for you.

$500 is a lot of money for some people--especially a student, someone who is poor, or members of "oppressed minorities" which is why they set a fee on bringing such a case in the first place--to discourage poor people from bringing them. But these days, with the internet, and all the grass-roots 2A groups, raising the filing fee for a Federal 1983 suit should be easy...

Good luck, and I hope these specific officers have to mortgage their homes over this one.
 
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tyc

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2011
Messages
137
Location
Pocono Mountains of PA
... some folks would like to defend this to the end, but don't have the $$ resources to get it done, seek a "pro-bono" lawyer, who they think should be as outraged and care about these violations of rights, as much as the victim, and then to do it for free, or someone sets up a "contibution" link for my defense fund to which a small amount of money gets donated....or not.

Somehow we need to be able to develop a "body" of successful case law on a state by state basis, that can be relied upon and used going forward.

It is not reasonable to expect that pro-bono assistance would be as deterined nor as diligent as that of the individual agrieved party, who at present may not have the skills needed to bring forward such an action..

As for developing a body of case law, state by state or otherwise odds are that a good bit of the case law in question already exists and is available today by way of the Internet. It is probably already available by way of a private funded web page but the downside to this is essentially in two parts; (1) most attornys are too ignorant of or too lazy with regard to the full utilization of the Internet in the search for case law, and (2) so is/are the aggrieved party/ies. This may as well apply to the potential defendant(s) and his/her legal counsel.

The "trick" is find the applicable case law and have it readily available, when and if needed. As such it will probably be done on a case by case basis as individuals poking around on the Internet just happen come across specific case law. In the case of this specific OC website; see the "sticky" heading as offered in the legal forum. There is a slew of legal "head candy" avialable to one and all, right now, right here.

In this day and age, if you can use a computer and have interest and the time, regardless of the specific area of law (civil or criminal) which may be of interest to you, begin to set up a data base on that part of US and Commonwealth law which is of interest to you. Set up your own filing system as to where each and every case of settled law you come across should go (zoning, US Amendments, Term Limits, Pro-Se, etc., what ever works for you) and enter - as you see it - the applicable case law in it's entirety into that sub-directory. Note: Expect some case law to be applicable for more than one directory or sub-directory. Just set up the filing system so that you, the owner of the files, can get at the applicable case law whenever you want at it. Once you've "captured" a given decision, again in it's entirety, when reviewing it, when you come across a comment/passage of interest, highlight it or mark it up any which way you want so you can quickly find it again; because and as you may find out, there is so much of it now available, sometimes this is a lot easier said than done.

tyc
 
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Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
There are "civil remedies" available to the agrieved and they can be expensive, very expensive for the cop, his supervisors, the head of the PD and the government entitiy involved.

When suing a municipal government, it's best to start at the proverbial "top" and above all else, make sure to specify the individuals as defendants in their individual capacity(ies).

Let "it" roll down hill - from the top to the bottom, exempt no one in the "chain of command."

tyc

Yes, the civil remedies can be very expensive to the rights violators.

But, we don't have tons of everyday little rights violations because civil remedies are always expensive to the rights violators. The cops know what they can usually get away with because it is too expensive to pursue remedies, even if clear cut, nearly irrefutable evidence existed, when too often its just the cop's word against the victim.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Yes, the civil remedies can be very expensive to the rights violators.

But, we don't have tons of everyday little rights violations because civil remedies are always expensive to the rights violators. The cops know what they can usually get away with because it is too expensive to pursue remedies, even if clear cut, nearly irrefutable evidence existed, when too often its just the cop's word against the victim.

He said, she said can be made to be heard/seen a bit more clearly.

Would you prefer to review the voice recording or the video first? :lol:
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
I hope you don't have any plans for a few days... :p

Happy reading! That's roughly 3400 posts total going back to February. :eek:
.

Indeed it is a busy place with a lot of support - really great group of guys and gals.
Strong leadership, dedicated members, wealth of knowledge and teamwork that is seldom equaled.
 

tyc

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2011
Messages
137
Location
Pocono Mountains of PA
... The cops know what they can usually get away with because it is too expensive to pursue remedies, even if clear cut, nearly irrefutable evidence existed,
... when too often its just the cop's word against the victim.

Keep in mind, most cops are not bad people but also keep in mind they do get to see all too often the worst side of human brutalilty and depravity. One does not take a cop who has been involved in drug undercover work for the past five years and the next day assign the individual to act as a school crossing guard for pre-schoolers.

As for expense, ".. even if clear cut, nearly irrefutable evidence ..." exhists (and it will most likely be refuted anyway) after filing a criminal complaint with the district attorney's office, the cost(s) to initiate a civil action against the individual(s) can be zero if the aggrieved can demonstrate he/she can't afford competent legal counsel but can - reasonably - demonstrate that he/she has a case. With an eye aimed directly at equal justice for one and all, the Courts have been and are prepared for such events. You don't need money to sue when "public servants" misbehave, you just have to be angry enough to do it - just make sure you're right. If there's any doubt - don't start. Remember, government exists for the convience of the governed and for no other reason.

Also keep in mind, as far as the aggrieved is concerned, at the time of encounter with incompetent or unlawful law enforcement, complete and total silence on the part of the aggrieved is not an admission of, nor is it evidence of, guilt; i.e., stay alert, make mental notes of who, what, when, where - but keep your mouth shut!

tyc
 
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Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Keep in mind, most cops are not bad people but also keep in mind they do get to see all too often the worst side of human brutalilty and depravity. One does not take a cop who has been involved in drug undercover work for the past five years and the next day assign the individual to act as a school crossing guard for pre-schoolers.

As for expense, ".. even if clear cut, nearly irrefutable evidence ..." exhists (and it will most likely be refuted anyway) after filing a criminal complaint with the district attorney's office, the cost(s) to initiate a civil action against the individual(s) can be zero if the aggrieved can demonstrate he/she can't afford competent legal counsel but can - reasonably - demonstrate that he/she has a case. With an eye aimed directly at equal justice for one and all, the Courts have been and are prepared for such events. You don't need money to sue when "public servants" misbehave, you just have to be angry enough to do it - just make sure you're right. If there's any doubt - don't start. Remember, government exists for the convience of the governed and for no other reason.

Also keep in mind, as far as the aggrieved is concerned, at the time of encounter with incompetent or unlawful law enforcement, complete and total silence on the part of the aggrieved is not an admission of, nor is it evidence of, guilt' i.e., stay alert, make mental notes of who, what, when, where - but keep your mouth shut!

tyc

I have never heard of such, but maybe I've been living in a cave. Pro Bono or court appointed attorney in a civil case? Maybe if you've got an extremely strong case they might take it on a contingency, but IMO never free.

Criminal charges and civil action are two completely different animals.

Is there a cite that you can provide for your state?
 
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