Question about Utah Loaded/unloaded

"It is unlawful to carry a loaded firearm on any public street without a permit."


Since the definition of loaded for an autoloader/semi-auto pistol in Utah is a full magazine and a round in the chamber or definition of unloaded is 2 actions from firing which means a full magazine but no round in the chamber, my question would be this:

Can you carry a handgun concealed upon a public street without a permit if it is "unloaded" according to Utah's definition of unloaded? BTW has anyone else thought of or has asked this very same question?

You would then still have a "concealed firearm" without a permit, which is against the law, Kiwi. Go directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200. Pax...

Completely unloaded carry?

Gil223 said:

You would then still have a "concealed firearm" without a permit, which is against the law, Kiwi. Go directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200. Pax...

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Would it also be unlawful to carry a completely unloaded handgun in a gun case or container without a carry permit? BTW back in Illinois, container carry is still lawful without a permit where the gun is completely unloaded but you may have a magazine loaded next to the gun in the same gun container. Me not go to jail, only asking hypothetically to get correct information hehe!

UCA 76-10-504
Carrying concealed dangerous weapon -- Penalties.
(1) Except as provided in Section 76-10-503 and in Subsections (2), (3), and (4), a person who carries a concealed dangerous weapon, as defined in Section 76-10-501, including an unloaded firearm on his or her person or one that is readily accessible for immediate use which is not securely encased, as defined in this part, in or on a place other than the person's residence, property, a vehicle in the person's lawful possession, or a vehicle, with the consent of the individual who is lawfully in possession of the vehicle, or business under the person's control is guilty of a class B misdemeanor.
(2) A person who carries a concealed dangerous weapon which is a loaded firearm in violation of Subsection (1) is guilty of a class A misdemeanor.
(3) A person who carries concealed an unlawfully possessed short barreled shotgun or a short barreled rifle is guilty of a second degree felony.
(4) If the concealed firearm is used in the commission of a violent felony as defined in Section 76-3-203.5, and the person is a party to the offense, the person is guilty of a second degree felony.
(5) Nothing in Subsection (1) or (2) shall prohibit a person engaged in the lawful taking of protected or unprotected wildlife as defined in Title 23, Wildlife Resources Code of Utah, from carrying a concealed weapon or a concealed firearm as long as the taking of wildlife does not occur:
(a) within the limits of a municipality in violation of that municipality's ordinances; or
(b) upon the highways of the state as defined in Section 41-6a-102.

Amended by Chapter 301, 2013 General Session

NewZealandAmerican said:

Would it also be unlawful to carry a completely unloaded handgun in a gun case or container without a carry permit? BTW back in Illinois, container carry is still lawful without a permit where the gun is completely unloaded but you may have a magazine loaded next to the gun in the same gun container. Me not go to jail, only asking hypothetically to get correct information hehe!

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I was unable to find a crystal clear example in Utah law. However, generally speaking an unloaded firearm may be transported by anyone (not otherwise prohibited from possessing a firearm) in a case, unloaded, chamber open, with ammunition NOT in the same area (gun in passenger compartment, ammo in trunk = OK; gun in passenger compartment, ammo in glove box or center console = NOT OK). A book well-worth reading is Utah Gun Law, 4th Edition, by Mitch Vilos (I can't find mine right now, or I could give you a more definitive answer). Pax...

Gil223 said:

I was unable to find a crystal clear example in Utah law. However, generally speaking an unloaded firearm may be transported by anyone (not otherwise prohibited from possessing a firearm) in a case, unloaded, chamber open, with ammunition NOT in the same area (gun in passenger compartment, ammo in trunk = OK; gun in passenger compartment, ammo in glove box or center console = NOT OK). A book well-worth reading is Utah Gun Law, 4th Edition, by Mitch Vilos (I can't find mine right now, or I could give you a more definitive answer). Pax...

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Loaded pistol in your car is lawful in utah, afaik.

J_dazzle23 said:

Loaded pistol in your car is lawful in utah, afaik.

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Indeed, it is lawful to conceal it on your person fully loaded while in your car, and at only 18+, too.

UCA 76-10-505

MAC702 said:

Indeed, it is lawful to conceal it on your person fully loaded while in your car, and at only 18+, too.

UCA 76-10-505

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I was under the impression it did not have to physically be on your person, yes?

J_dazzle23 said:

I was under the impression it did not have to physically be on your person, yes?

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Correct. I was adding that when you are in your car, handguns are ALSO allowed to be concealed on your person, fully loaded, no permit required, for anyone over 18.

MAC702 said:

Correct. I was adding that when you are in your car, handguns are ALSO allowed to be concealed on your person, fully loaded, no permit required, for anyone over 18.

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I see! Thank you

MAC702 said:

UCA 76-10-504
Carrying concealed dangerous weapon -- Penalties.
(1) Except as provided in Section 76-10-503 and in Subsections (2), (3), and (4), a person who carries a concealed dangerous weapon, as defined in Section 76-10-501, including an unloaded firearm on his or her person or one that is readily accessible for immediate use which is not securely encased, as defined in this part, in or on a place other than the person's residence, property, a vehicle in the person's lawful possession, or a vehicle, with the consent of the individual who is lawfully in possession of the vehicle, or business under the person's control is guilty of a class B misdemeanor.
(2) A person who carries a concealed dangerous weapon which is a loaded firearm in violation of Subsection (1) is guilty of a class A misdemeanor.
(3) A person who carries concealed an unlawfully possessed short barreled shotgun or a short barreled rifle is guilty of a second degree felony.
(4) If the concealed firearm is used in the commission of a violent felony as defined in Section 76-3-203.5, and the person is a party to the offense, the person is guilty of a second degree felony.
(5) Nothing in Subsection (1) or (2) shall prohibit a person engaged in the lawful taking of protected or unprotected wildlife as defined in Title 23, Wildlife Resources Code of Utah, from carrying a concealed weapon or a concealed firearm as long as the taking of wildlife does not occur:
(a) within the limits of a municipality in violation of that municipality's ordinances; or
(b) upon the highways of the state as defined in Section 41-6a-102.

Amended by Chapter 301, 2013 General Session

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Thanks MAC702 for getting the cite info for me from the actual law.

If I am correct this sounds like it would be unlawful in Utah to do the Illinois container carry "fanny pack carry" where you can without a carry permit, carry an unloaded handgun with a loaded magazine in the same container (just not in the gun) like in a fanny pack or as another example one of those disguise "planner" holsters which both qualify in Illinois as a gun case/container. But don't forget if you are a resident of Illinois you have to have a FOID card (Firearms Ownership ID Card) to posses a gun and even just ammo. The FOID card does not authorize carry.

Any adult person, who does not possess a Concealed Firearm permit, issued by any State, and who is not otherwise prohibited from possession of a handgun, may carry such a handgun openly (visible to others) provided it is "Utah Unloaded". Many people do not understand the law in this regard. It centers on two critical components. 1) There can be no round in the chamber or under the firing mechanism, whether semi-auto or revolver. 2) Two (2) actions are required for firing. For a semi-auto this means a full magazine, but no round in the chamber. For a double action revolver, this means no round under the hammer and no round in the adjacent chamber. For a single action revolver, this means no round in the chamber under the hammer and the firearm may not be on full cock.

One of the biggest challenges that an open carry person has, when they open carry without a permit, is avoiding the Federal Gun Free School Zones. In urban Utah (St. George in the south and southern Davis County, all of Salt Lake County, and northern Utah County), it is nearly impossible to get out of one's car without being in a Federal Gun Free School Zone. One's car is considered equivalent to one's domicile. Thus, within your car (or truck) you can carry fully loaded and open or concealed.

The Utah Shooting Sports Council is pushing a bill this year called "Common Sense Carry". This is a bill to allow persons to carry, open or concealed, loaded or Utah unloaded, without a permit. The Bill however, if passed, would not prevent Federal prosecution of a person having a firearm in a Gun Free School Zone. Link: http://commonsensecarry.org Arizona likes to tout a similar law, Constitutional Carry, but citizens there must still deal with the Federal GFSZ laws.

On the question of "Illinois Carry" - that is - in a fanny pack (case) with no magazine in the firearm, but the loaded magazine is really close, that would appear to be no different than having a hard side pistol case with a fully unloaded handgun and a magazine nearby. With the loaded magazine so close, and no permit, that would be a violation of Federal Law - even in Illinois.

Jim

jpm84092 said:

The Utah Shooting Sports Council is pushing a bill this year called "Common Sense Carry". This is a bill to allow persons to carry, open or concealed, loaded or Utah unloaded, without a permit. The Bill however, if passed, would not prevent Federal prosecution of a person having a firearm in a Gun Free School Zone. Link: http://commonsensecarry.org Arizona likes to tout a similar law, Constitutional Carry, but citizens there must still deal with the Federal GFSZ laws.

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This new bill, would that be considered as Utah's new Constitutional carry bill? and as for the warning about the Federal Gun Free Zone, being prosecuted, is that the same in the other states with constitutional carry? Alaska, Wyoming, Arizona, Arkansas and Vermont?

jpm84092 said:

...One of the biggest challenges that an open carry person has, when they open carry without a permit, is avoiding the Federal Gun Free School Zones....

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Is this actually an issue in UT? We completely ignore it in Nevada and Arizona. I'm not in Utah often enough to notice if this is an issue there. Have there been arrests?

I have not heard of any arrests, and due to the fact that it's almost impossible to go from one end of town to the other without going through a gun free zone, the issue doesn't come up so it's not likely to be enforced. Having said that, I'm not going to put my future in the hands of some opportunistic gun hating lib. I'll use my ccw