OT- Violent Arrest Last Week

Ruby said:

Thank you for that information, I was not aware of that at all.

Click to expand...

Concentration wise, I would be more worried about HEP than HIV/AIDS. There are much higher levels of HEP in blood than HIV, FWIU.

You definitely do not want any STD in your eyes. I worked with a man who picked up what was surely a beautiful woman one night at a bar, he was drunk, and well, nature took its course, a few days later he came into work, and his eyes were all puffed and gross. Apparently he had taken a little present home with him that evening he spent with his temporary lady-friend. Gonorrhea is what he had contracted in his eyes.:shocker:

gogodawgs said:

I have had a shoplifter in custody. Down on the ground with 3 other employees subduing the man while I put cuffs on him. He spat in my face. I did not punch the individual. However, I may not as been as careful in tightening the cuffs. Emotions will get the best of anyone, training or not.

For an officer, who as undergone training, a punch would not be appropriate.

Click to expand...

I'm sure in the moment it is hard to keep yourself together when someone is being a complete POS like that. You handled yourself well

Beretta92FSLady said:

Yes, this man is probably insane. Where are you going to put him? All of those services they had years ago for people who are insane have been wiped out...so these people are sent onto the streets, and if they do lash out, sent to jail or prison. There are some real nutjobs on the streets these days, some of which could actually be pretty down to Earth with the right medication, treatment, housing, and job placement. I know this, because I have seen it. My sister works will people who are severely ill, but when they are receiving the proper treatment, and are given a task to do, they are pretty damn productive. Money, where is the money???

Click to expand...

So let me see if I have this straight: People with varying degrees of mental illness are on the streets because there's no place to put them because there's no money to pay for a place to put them. Criminals, some violent, are being let loose from prison and put on the street because there's no money to pay for prisons. And the antis and some of our legislators want to control or take away our guns?!?:shocker: Aren't they as crazy as the others?!?

Beretta92FSLady said:

I'm sure in the moment it is hard to keep yourself together when someone is being a complete POS like that. You handled yourself well

Click to expand...

That is what my employees said as well.

Ruby said:

So let me see if I have this straight: People with varying degrees of mental illness are on the streets because there's no place to put them because there's no money to pay for a place to put them. Criminals, some violent, are being let loose from prison and put on the street because there's no money to pay for prisons. And the antis and some of our legislators want to control or take away our guns?!?:shocker: Aren't they as crazy as the others?!?

Click to expand...

Yes, but there's no money to pay for a place to put them either.

From a different article on the incident.

"The department is also looking into actions of the sergeant at the scene, Whitcomb said.

"We have to wonder whether a reasonable explanation at the time, in a calm manner, would have defused this situation," he said.

Reports on the incident, as well as any video from the officers' patrol car dash camera, have been gathered and will be reviewed by the Office of Professional Accountability, Whitcomb said. Until that investigation is completed, the department is limited in what it can say about the incident, Whitcomb said."

Unlike the "Department", I'm sure that others will have plenty to say.

This couldn't be because all these officers are supposed to be quickly weeded out?

Ruby said:

So let me see if I have this straight: People with varying degrees of mental illness are on the streets because there's no place to put them because there's no money to pay for a place to put them. Criminals, some violent, are being let loose from prison and put on the street because there's no money to pay for prisons. And the antis and some of our legislators want to control or take away our guns?!?:shocker: Aren't they as crazy as the others?!?

Click to expand...

There used to be several places to put them. Then it became "fashionable" to merely hand most of them a bottle of pills with the instructions "take these". They were supposed to go back to their families and communities and live like the rest. Eventually many of them made it to the streets and nobody was willing or able to chase them down to see if they were taking their meds. The State is busy trying to find money to fund their bloated payroll and pension plans so every year there is less money for managing the mentally ill. Also consider that many of them have come from other states as well just to take part in Washington's generous programs for the "poor" and that gives us more than our fair share.

Those in the Legislature that want to take away our guns are usually the ones that want to put more mental cases on the street. Want a real shocker? Look at what's happening in our school system with the youngsters that have mental problems. When one of them disrupts a class, the rest of the students are removed from the classroom rather than removing the offender. The Schools have been instructed that 'they can't touch these students' and they are only to calm them until the class can resume. Wonder how many "Student Learning Hours" are lost because we have to "mainstream" these individuals?

There are a great number of people on the streets right now that shouldn't be...most of them homeless and helpless because the State can't afford to take care of them, and after some court cases, the State was forced to release them, because of civil rights issues.

Having worked at a VA Medical Center that had an inpatient psych ward, and having had to put up with some of the antics that they can have... I've NEVER hit a patient, NEVER yelled at a patient, and NEVER abused a patient.

The newer anti-psychotic medications can work wonders, WHEN they are taken. The problem, as noted above, is that some patients get shoved out the door with a bottle of pills and a pat on the back. With no support network available to these people, the next phase of their life involves devolving back into psychosis and a return to the hospital, often through the criminal justice system.

It is not illegal to be mentally ill. It should be, however, and I believe is, illegal for a policeman to strike a handcuffed subdued person. But, hey, that's just the opinion of an old fart...

amlevin said:

From a different article on the incident.

"The department is also looking into actions of the sergeant at the scene, Whitcomb said.

"We have to wonder whether a reasonable explanation at the time, in a calm manner, would have defused this situation," he said.

Reports on the incident, as well as any video from the officers' patrol car dash camera, have been gathered and will be reviewed by the Office of Professional Accountability, Whitcomb said. Until that investigation is completed, the department is limited in what it can say about the incident, Whitcomb said."

Unlike the "Department", I'm sure that others will have plenty to say.

Click to expand...

The excerpts you have written here is part of what I read in the same article. I would think that the OPA has been quite busy lately.

amlevin said:

There used to be several places to put them. Then it became "fashionable" to merely hand most of them a bottle of pills with the instructions "take these". They were supposed to go back to their families and communities and live like the rest. Eventually many of them made it to the streets and nobody was willing or able to chase them down to see if they were taking their meds. The State is busy trying to find money to fund their bloated payroll and pension plans so every year there is less money for managing the mentally ill. Also consider that many of them have come from other states as well just to take part in Washington's generous programs for the "poor" and that gives us more than our fair share.

Those in the Legislature that want to take away our guns are usually the ones that want to put more mental cases on the street. Want a real shocker? Look at what's happening in our school system with the youngsters that have mental problems. When one of them disrupts a class, the rest of the students are removed from the classroom rather than removing the offender. The Schools have been instructed that 'they can't touch these students' and they are only to calm them until the class can resume. Wonder how many "Student Learning Hours" are lost because we have to "mainstream" these individuals?

Click to expand...

Yes, there used to be state hospitals for the mentally ill. When I was a little girl, my grandmother was a cook, then a food supervisor at Peoria State Hospital. The patients were housed in very large wards. I worked there for a short time in my 20's. Left because my husband and I moved back to Colorado, not because I didn't like it. These people were CARED FOR; they were fed meals, bathed and dressed, given meds, got medical attention, etc. The hopital was huge and on several acres. A lot of the patients were allowed to walk the grounds. I can't remember my grandmother ever being afraid of working there, nor was I when I worked there. I never saw a patient being abused in any way. They were sick people and were treated like sick people and treated like they were human beings. I think it says a lot about a society in how they treat the weakest and most vulnerable among them.

Speaking of old men spitting on cops and being beaten while handcuffed:

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...Man-Strapped-in-Wheelchair-William-Cozzi.html

The old man in this case had been stabbed in the abdomen previously. Rather than going to the hospital, he initially chose instead to get drunk. Later on, he went to the hospital where he was determined to be "disruptive" or "uncooperative". A Chicago cop was called, who handcuffed him to a wheelchair, then savagely beat him with a sap (which he wasn't authorized to have or use) when the old man spit on him. This was captured on hospital security video.

The cop was first charged with (and pleaded to?) a misdemeanor and retained by the Chicago PD (no surprise there). After the worldwide scandal of the savage beating of the barmaid by a Chicago cop, the new Police Superintendent referred the case to the FBI who prosecuted the perpetrator. As per the link, he was convicted and sentenced to 40 months in prison. This has led to a slow motion mutiny against the Superintendent, who is roundly hated by the rank and file for actually punishing violent crime committed by police officers.

If we ended the war on non-violent drug users, there would be plenty of money freed up to address the far more dangerous problem of the violent mentally ill. But our Puritanism skews our priorities.

maybe this is their justification:


RCW 9A.36.031
Assault in the third degree.

(1) A person is guilty of assault in the third degree if he or she, under circumstances not amounting to assault in the first or second degree:

(a) With intent to prevent or resist the execution of any lawful process or mandate of any court officer or the lawful apprehension or detention of himself or another person, assaults another; or

(b) Assaults a person employed as a transit operator or driver, the immediate supervisor of a transit operator or driver, a mechanic, or a security officer, by a public or private transit company or a contracted transit service provider, while that person is performing his or her official duties at the time of the assault; or


(g) Assaults a law enforcement officer or other employee of a law enforcement agency who was performing his or her official duties at the time of the assault;


but then there is this: http://www.thenewstribune.com/2011/01/18/1507217/infected-spitter-charged-with.html

and this: http://www.courts.wa.gov/content/Briefs/A01/636685 appellants.pdf

In State v. Humphries, the defendant
was convicted of assault for spitting on a police officer, and over
defense objection, the prosecutor argued spitting constituted an
assault. 21 Wn.App. 405,586 P.2d 130 (1978). While this Court
concluded spitting may constitute a battery and the prosecutor's
argument was not improper, this Court did not conclude that as a
matter of law spitting is an assault. 21 Wn.App. at 408

Maybe the Victim here can claim assault against the SPD....and they can hold an internal investigation to determine that!

No hitting of handcuffed and subdued detainee's....but maybe the officer needs to add yet another tool of the job on his belt....

Duct Tape!

Ruby said:

So let me see if I have this straight: People with varying degrees of mental illness are on the streets because there's no place to put them because there's no money to pay for a place to put them. Criminals, some violent, are being let loose from prison and put on the street because there's no money to pay for prisons. And the antis and some of our legislators want to control or take away our guns?!?:shocker: Aren't they as crazy as the others?!?

Click to expand...

Let's get this straight here. Bleeding-heart liberals (the far left) do want to restrict access to firearms by all people, especially mentally unstable individuals. Bleeding-heart liberals prefer to have the mentally ill person treated with medication, psychological treatment, and housing placement, remember, they are bleeding-heart liberals.

Right-wingers want less taxes, and cuts in services that are 'not necessary," such as metal health services. So, by default, our prison system becomes the mental wards of states. The problem, housing prisoners is costly, so there are cuts that affect prisons who in turn have to release mentally unstable people onto the streets.

Better than 70% of Americans are not for the abolition of firearms. There are plenty of liberals that fall into that 70%.

Ruby said:

And the antis and some of our legislators want to control or take away our guns?!? Aren't they as crazy as the others?!?

Click to expand...

ak56 said:

Yes, but there's no money to pay for a place to put them either.

Click to expand...

Don't we keep some of them in D.C.?

Thing is the police are supposed to be trained on how to handle these incidents. You would think it is something they do on a fairly frequent basis. So they should be able to react calmly and rationally. But all to often they don't. It seems their training has gone astray. When police punch someone in handcuffs or kick someone on the ground and are caught they are quick to point out they were just following their training. Are they? Is that what we expect their training to be all about? When do they learn to diffuse the situation. I expect the police to not be the thugs. Even when they catch a bad guy. Fortunately most police encounters do not end up like this but those that do should be punished.
irfner

rodbender said:

Don't we keep some of them in D.C.?

Click to expand...

Too true.

Beretta92FSLady said:

Let's get this straight here. Bleeding-heart liberals (the far left) do want to restrict access to firearms by all people, especially mentally unstable individuals. Bleeding-heart liberals prefer to have the mentally ill person treated with medication, psychological treatment, and housing placement, remember, they are bleeding-heart liberals.

Right-wingers want less taxes, and cuts in services that are 'not necessary," such as metal health services. So, by default, our prison system becomes the mental wards of states. The problem, housing prisoners is costly, so there are cuts that affect prisons who in turn have to release mentally unstable people onto the streets.

Better than 70% of Americans are not for the abolition of firearms. There are plenty of liberals that fall into that 70%.

Click to expand...

I was not talking about liberals or conservatives nor criticizing either one. I said antis, of which there are some who are liberal and some who are conservative. Same with our legislators. My point was that the mentally ill and criminals are being let loose on the street because there supposedly isn't enough money, and at the same time, some people want to take our means of protecting ourselves away from us. It doesn't make any sense to me. If they keep letting these people out onto the streets, crime is going to increase, especially with the economy the way it is. The problem is we have legislators who seem to think that the money supply is endless and that they can spend whatever they want on whatever they want. I wonder how many billions are spent on useless or superfluous programs and projects, studies, etc. that could be spent on giving the most vulnerable among us (the elderly and the mentally ill, neither of whom are capable of working for the most part) the help they need. Social programs are always first on the chopping block. Let's cut the aid to illegal aliens who don't belong here and give it to the 85 year old woman who can barely eat and pay for her medication on her SS check! Since we all are suffering at least a little bit if not more, I'd like to see some of our Congress people suffer right a long with us, that way they'll know exactly what we are going through. If this country is ever going to regain a stable economic foothold, we are going to have to have a serious shift of priorities.

Ruby, I as not attacking you, promise.

I tend to get off topic, as we were.

Back the the OT, did the guy deserve to be punched in the face multiple times for spitting in the officer's mouth and face, YES! Should the officer have punched the guy, no.