Clinton County RI-60

WilDChilD · Aug 30, 2012

I turned in a RI-60 for a Mossberg that I put a pistol grip on.(total length is 28.5) Got a call from the office girl with some questions. She wondered why I was the seller and the buyer? After I told her what I did she had me hold while she asked somebody some questions. When she got back on the phone she informed me I had committed a federal felony for changing a long gun into a pistol. I told her I that was not the case in this instance. She transfered me to a Det. who basiclly repeated the same thing to me. So I called MSP who agreed with me that under federal law it was still a long gun but MI law states it needs to be registered.

I was wondering if anybody else has ran into this type of problem?

Bronson · Aug 30, 2012

Write this experience up in a nice email and send it off to your State Senator. They need to know that the registration system in MI is so confusing and convoluted that even the police charged with administering the system cannot understand the laws. It's just one more reason registration needs to go away.

Bronson

Evil Creamsicle · Aug 30, 2012

WilDChilD said:
I was wondering if anybody else has ran into this type of problem?

If by 'problem' you mean idiots who don't know what they're doing, the laws, or how to properly enforce them [or not enforce them], then yes. This specific issue, no.

Frankly I'm surprised your PD's records bureau even read it. I figured they'd just throw it in a folder, or use it as a coaster, or toilet paper, or something the way this system is run.

Venator · Aug 30, 2012

WilDChilD said:
I turned in a RI-60 for a Mossberg that I put a pistol grip on.(total length is 28.5) Got a call from the office girl with some questions. She wondered why I was the seller and the buyer? After I told her what I did she had me hold while she asked somebody some questions. When she got back on the phone she informed me I had committed a federal felony for changing a long gun into a pistol. I told her I that was not the case in this instance. She transfered me to a Det. who basiclly repeated the same thing to me. So I called MSP who agreed with me that under federal law it was still a long gun but MI law states it needs to be registered.

I was wondering if anybody else has ran into this type of problem?

St. Johns PD?

WilDChilD · Aug 30, 2012

Venator said:
St. Johns PD?

Clinton County Sheriff Dept. With everything else I have ever dealt with them on they seem to be the example other countys should strive to be, but even when I called them back with the MSP troopers name and number the lady on the phone said " I dont know what he's gonna tell me federal law supercides state law".

I was gonna call her back today and make sure she talked with the trooper. Last thing I want is Clinton County deputy knocking on the door to seize my "illegal" firearm.

Venator · Aug 30, 2012

WilDChilD said:
Clinton County Sheriff Dept. With everything else I have ever dealt with them on they seem to be the example other countys should strive to be, but even when I called them back with the MSP troopers name and number the lady on the phone said " I dont know what he's gonna tell me federal law supercides state law".

I was gonna call her back today and make sure she talked with the trooper. Last thing I want is Clinton County deputy knocking on the door to seize my "illegal" firearm.

I know Undersheriff Jack Phillips pretty well. He should know the law on this. Try and talk with him.

SpringerXDacp · Aug 30, 2012

WilDChilD said:
I turned in a RI-60 for a Mossberg that I put a pistol grip on.(total length is 28.5) Got a call from the office girl with some questions. She wondered why I was the seller and the buyer? After I told her what I did she had me hold while she asked somebody some questions. When she got back on the phone she informed me I had committed a federal felony for changing a long gun into a pistol. I told her I that was not the case in this instance. She transfered me to a Det. who basiclly repeated the same thing to me. So I called MSP who agreed with me that under federal law it was still a long gun but MI law states it needs to be registered.

I was wondering if anybody else has ran into this type of problem?

Methinks what they're trying to say is that by removing the buttstock from the Mossy 500, for example with a 18.5 inch barrel, possibly the OAL becomes less than 26 inches in OAL until you attach the pistol grip which brings the OAL to 28.5 inches as you indicated? Hence, a SBS, a short-barrel shotgun.

WilDChilD · Aug 30, 2012

SpringerXDacp said:
Methinks what they're trying to say is that by removing the buttstock from the Mossy 500, for example with a 18.5 inch barrel, possibly the OAL becomes less than 26 inches in OAL until you attach the pistol grip which brings the OAL to 28.5 inches as you indicated? Hence, a SBS, a short-barrel shotgun.

No the federal thing was that a long gun can not become a pistol, but a pistol can become a long gun.

Xanaseyr · Aug 30, 2012

SpringerXDacp said:
Methinks what they're trying to say is that by removing the buttstock from the Mossy 500, for example with a 18.5 inch barrel, possibly the OAL becomes less than 26 inches in OAL until you attach the pistol grip which brings the OAL to 28.5 inches as you indicated? Hence, a SBS, a short-barrel shotgun.

WilDChilD said:
No the federal thing was that a long gun can not become a pistol, but a pistol can become a long gun.

Except that's not even relevant in this case:
http://nyosuht.com/images/2012-08-30/PICT0883.JPG
http://nyosuht.com/images/2012-08-30/PICT0886.JPG

I'd sooner believe that they don't actually realise that the definition in MCL 28.421 doesn't apply to federal law.

WilDChilD · Aug 30, 2012

Xanaseyr said:
Except that's not even relevant in this case:

I told them that and they didnt believe me.

sasha601 · Aug 30, 2012

I suggest you go down there and get this resolved. They have to register this gun as a pistol. This is the law as it stands today. Tell them that you are not leaving until this matter is resolved. Record your conversation. Try to have specific facts audio recorded during your interaction, such as the fact that RI-60 was mailed. Try to make them to admit that Ri-60 was received by the county. Read aloud serial number, gun make, etc. Let them argue their nonsense on tape. Then, after the facts are on record, announce that this interaction was recorded to protect yourself in case I am charged with failure to register pistol. Tell them that you done what is required by law and that you will be back in one week to get a copy of your gun registration. I think this will make them move.

Michigander · Aug 30, 2012

Evil Creamsicle said:
Frankly I'm surprised your PD's records bureau even read it. I figured they'd just throw it in a folder, or use it as a coaster, or toilet paper, or something the way this system is run.

This. I have seen, thanks to one ****** bag felon excuse for a cop violating my rights and that of friend's, a case of a pistol supposedly registered on two separate occasions by two different departments which was not even on LEIN. This is a staggeringly more common problem than most know, but the thing is that with how tight lipped Michigan cops are about their little intrusive system to keep tabs on us, most will never see this.

Remember that if you are concerned about grandfathering a MiDAP, and aren't concerned about/don't believe that if registration goes so to will grandfathered MiDAPs, that it will be a crap shoot if your gun gets registered or not. I'd suggest keeping several copies of the RI060, because you definitely shouldn't be counting on the state to keep track of it.

WilDChilD · Aug 31, 2012

I talked to the office girl yesterday to see if she had contacted msp. She told me " the gun will be registered" in a semi crappy tone.

stainless1911 · Aug 31, 2012

WilDChilD said:
I talked to the office girl yesterday to see if she had contacted msp. She told me " the gun will be registered" in a semi crappy tone.

I would follow up on that with a complaint about poor customer service.

sasha601 · Aug 31, 2012

WilDChilD said:
I talked to the office girl yesterday to see if she had contacted msp. She told me " the gun will be registered" in a semi crappy tone.

I am glad they agreed to do the right thing. Give it a week and go request a copy of registration record. They have to provide it to you and can charge $1.

DrTodd · Sep 3, 2012

sasha601 said:
I am glad they agreed to do the right thing. Give it a week and go request a copy of registration record. They have to provide it to you and can charge $1.

This!!

WilDChilD · Sep 3, 2012

sasha601 said:
I am glad they agreed to do the right thing. Give it a week and go request a copy of registration record. They have to provide it to you and can charge $1.

That's what I was going to do. Is that something they can do right on the spot or will I have to come back and pick it up? Now I hope there is a way for it to remain a pistol if they do away with registration.

sasha601 · Sep 3, 2012

WilDChilD said:
That's what I was going to do. Is that something they can do right on the spot or will I have to come back and pick it up? Now I hope there is a way for it to remain a pistol if they do away with registration.

You should be able to get it on the spot. It is just a simple print out from the pistol registration database.

DrTodd · Sep 3, 2012

sasha601 said:
You should be able to get it on the spot. It is just a simple print out from the pistol registration database.

Walker PD just took some info from my Driver License and printed it off for me; took about 3 minutes in all.

Clinton County RI-60

WilDChilD

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Bronson

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Evil Creamsicle

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Venator

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WilDChilD

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Venator

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SpringerXDacp

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WilDChilD

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Xanaseyr

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WilDChilD

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sasha601

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Michigander

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WilDChilD

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stainless1911

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sasha601

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DrTodd

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WilDChilD

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sasha601

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DrTodd

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