Common sense or common courtesy?

VASR9 · Jul 2, 2010

45acpForMe said:
A sign that says "We are not responsible for valuables left in vehicles" is broader and more appropriate.

I agree, but he seems kinda bent on a no weapons sign. He's a little paranoid. A few years back we had a customer who use to open carry into the service department murder his girlfriend and kill himself. Nothing to do with us, but its still stuck in his head.

Wolf_shadow · Jul 2, 2010

VASR9 said:
I agree, but he seems kinda bent on a no weapons sign. He's a little paranoid. A few years back we had a customer who use to open carry into the service department murder his girlfriend and kill himself. Nothing to do with us, but its still stuck in his head.

Keep reminding him that someone bent on commiting a crime will not be detered by the gun buster sign. GFZ's are Criminal Safe Zones.

Grapeshot · Jul 2, 2010

Originally Posted by VASR9

I agree, but he seems kinda bent on a no weapons sign. He's a little paranoid. A few years back we had a customer who use to open carry into the service department murder his girlfriend and kill himself. Nothing to do with us, but its still stuck in his head.

Wolf_shadow said:
Keep reminding him that someone bent on commiting a crime will not be detered by the gun buster sign. GFZ's are Criminal Safe Zones.

No sign would have prevented such an event.

simmonsjoe · Jul 3, 2010

The Wolfhound said:
You have no control over who or what goes on in your vehicle when it is in for service. The trunk is not safe from people holding your keys in their hands. This rose above "stupid" to the level of "Damned Stupid". Theft or misuse if far too easy in this scenario. At the service center my handgun is on my person or has been left at home secured.

That is why I'm ****** they stopped making Valet keys.

Wolf_shadow · Jul 3, 2010

simmonsjoe said:
That is why I'm ****** they stopped making Valet keys.

What good would having a Valet key do when you can push a button on the dash and open the trunk anyway.

simmonsjoe · Jul 3, 2010

Wolf_shadow said:
What good would having a Valet key do when you can push a button on the dash and open the trunk anyway.

Most you turn your key in your trunk the opposite way of open and you disable buttons/levers. This is common even today, so someone can't smash your window and pop your trunk.
Ford for a while had the button in the glove box, which was not accessible with the Valet key.

Have you ever read your cars manual?

since9 · Jul 3, 2010

VASR9 said:
Now my question to you is. . . would you have left your weapons out in the open or have placed them in trunk prior to getting your work done?

Removed them from the vehicle, unless I had a valet key with which the mechanics would not have easy access to the trunk. Not much of a deterrence, though, as any mechanic worth a pinch of salt can get into your trunk in short order.

VASR9 said:
Well, it seems everyone kinda feels the same. As it stands now, my boss/service director is considering placing a no weapons sign outside our door. I did advise him that sign may drive away customers as well. We have had this happen a few times with different customers. No one panics, we just don't want anyone saying we stole their weapon.

I've open carried into the Ford Dealership, and while I can tell they're a little stiff about it, they also know me as a loyal customer, so they've never challanged me on it.

If they ever were to put up a "no firearms allowed" sign I'd simply carry concealed, but I'd also rip them and Ford HQ on the issue, both in a personal letter as well as letters to the newspaper, comments here, and elsewhere on other similar message forums, as I agree that a GFZ for law-abiding citizens = a FFZ for the criminals.

Grapeshot · Jul 3, 2010

I have OC'd in multiple dealerships on the showroom floor and service departments - never leaving a gun unattended in my vehicle. Been on test drives OCing, had good conversations about our RKBA, but only one complaint ever, years ago.

A particular dealership, said I was making someone uncomfortable and please put it in the truck. Sure, no problem, but I go where it goes. Left there, bought a new truck elsewhere and sent the other dealer a picture of my new ride along with a letter as to why I did not buy from them. Never heard back, but understand that they are more accepting now - maybe I had some impact.

conhntr · Jul 3, 2010

Agreed on not leaving any valubles in the car at the shop. Just too many people walkig about and the car is generally left unlocked while sitting in the bay

However I think it's crazy you guys are letting mechanics that you don't trust work on your cars. My car was only 25k new but I am Anal about who is allowed to drive or work on it. And no stealerships are on that list!

Glock9mmOldStyle · Jul 3, 2010

Totally unacceptable & in MI. it could get you locked up if someone from the dealer filed a complaint with PD. Some people are just goofy I guess.

simmonsjoe · Jul 3, 2010

Glock9mmOldStyle said:
Totally unacceptable & in MI. it could get you locked up if someone from the dealer filed a complaint with PD. Some people are just goofy I guess.

Site please. House rules.

I'm calling you out because this is your second post about MI law in the VA forum and it is inappropriate, possibly leading to confusion for people who come here looking for legal info.

Citizen · Jul 3, 2010

simmonsjoe said:
Site please. House rules.

I'm calling you out because this is your second post about MI law in the VA forum and it is inappropriate, possibly leading to confusion for people who come here looking for legal info.

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that a member demands a cite while himself asserting a house rule without citing it?

Grapeshot · Jul 3, 2010

Citizen said:
Am I the only one who finds it ironic that a member demands a cite while himself asserting a house rule without citing it?

And then our local denizen further compounds the issue.

Allow me:

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]7) If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available,is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?34871-Basic-Rules-(UPDATED-March-2010)
[/FONT]

Citizen · Jul 3, 2010

Grapeshot said:
And then our local denizen further compounds the issue.

That's Cite-izen to you, buster.

Grapeshot · Jul 3, 2010

Citizen said:
That's Cite-izen to you, buster.

I yield the floor to my esteemed colleague from the north, he is but a little rough about the edges, but his words are comely and he means fair well.

TFred · Jul 3, 2010

Glock9mmOldStyle said:
Totally unacceptable & in MI. it could get you locked up if someone from the dealer filed a complaint with PD. Some people are just goofy I guess.

simmonsjoe said:

Site please. House rules.

I'm calling you out because this is your second post about MI law in the VA forum and it is inappropriate, possibly leading to confusion for people who come here looking for legal info.

Click to expand...

Well the funny part is that citing the Michigan law in question does nothing to remediate the asserted offense.

The poster clearly stated that he was talking about Michigan, I don't see how anyone could get that confused, unless they just decided to not read the whole post.

I personally don't mind hearing about other state laws, as long as they are identified as such. In most cases, it makes me even happier than I already am, to be living in Virginia!

TFred

simmonsjoe · Jul 4, 2010

Grapeshot said:
And then our local denizen further compounds the issue.

Allow me:

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]7) If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available,is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?34871-Basic-Rules-(UPDATED-March-2010)
[/FONT]

thanks for the rescue.:dude:

Old Virginia Joe · Jul 5, 2010

An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?34871-Basic-Rules-(UPDATED-March-2010)
[/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]

Are you serious ?? We consider a " . . . newspaper article covering a legal issue . . . " to be a published source of law? These mentally careless people who write stories for the news rags are some of the ditziest folks on earth! They cannot even be relied on to ensure subject-verb agreement! Did they not just report on "bars" in Virginia, a legal non-entity? That is only the most fresh example. We brothers-of-arms would be unwise to consider anything written by anyone employed by newpapers as an authority of any kind. Wordsmiths my donkey!

TFred · Jul 5, 2010

Old Virginia Joe said:
Are you serious ?? We consider a " . . . newspaper article covering a legal issue . . . " to be a published source of law? These mentally careless people who write stories for the news rags are some of the ditziest folks on earth! They cannot even be relied on to ensure subject-verb agreement! Did they not just report on "bars" in Virginia, a legal non-entity? That is only the most fresh example. We brothers-of-arms would be unwise to consider anything written by anyone employed by newpapers as an authority of any kind. Wordsmiths my donkey!

I didn't write the rules to the forum, but I don't think they intend to give full legal authority to newspaper articles, which everyone knows are often flawed in fact and perspective. I suspect it's more an effort to flesh out the stuff that people may or may not remember quite right, or perhaps not at all. A newspaper may not be 100% accurate, but a cite to that source does give everyone in the discussion an even footing from which to further consider the subject at hand.

TFred

Grapeshot · Jul 5, 2010

TFred said:
I didn't write the rules to the forum, but I don't think they intend to give full legal authority to newspaper articles, which everyone knows are often flawed in fact and perspective. I suspect it's more an effort to flesh out the stuff that people may or may not remember quite right, or perhaps not at all. A newspaper may not be 100% accurate, but a cite to that source does give everyone in the discussion an even footing from which to further consider the subject at hand.

TFred

Frequently a news article is the only source of credibility in substantiating a poster' claim to events.

We've all seen the dramatic accounts of hitherto unknown posters with detailed claims of unbelievable happenings. Then there is the "I read an article" type of statement.
Cites, links and other confirming media based stories contribute to the acceptability or otherwise of such posts. Newspaper and magazine sources do have their place.

Common sense or common courtesy?

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