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Wells Fargo / Wachovia accused me of breaking the law

67GT390FB

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2007
Messages
860
Location
Richmond, Virginia, USA
Previous correspondence with Wells Fargo had indicated that the gun buster signs would be coming down as the change over of ID/signs took place. Indeed all of the No Guns signs have already come down in the Richmond, Va. market, except for those engraved in the door like the one pictured.

The advice given was that they would honor the laws of the state in which the office was located. This new policy is unfortunate and not in good faith.

I am in agreement that the falsely made accusation regarding illegality of carrying in Va. banks should not have been ignored.

GRAPE,

that letter is still on wachovia's letterhead meaning that is still wachovias old policy which isn't even a wachovia policy its a first union policy that they implemented system wide when they bought wachovia bank and dumped the first union name in favor of the better name wachovia bank had at the time. it will take a while to get the entrenched anti gun mantra out of former wachovia employees minds. until that letter comes in on western union letterhead i'd blame it on wachovia policies still in effect.
 
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Grapeshot

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GRAPE,

that letter is still on wachovia's letterhead meaning that is still wachovias old policy which isn't even a wachovia policy its a first union policy that they implemented system wide when they bought wachovia bank and dumped the first union name in favor of the better name wachovia bank had at the time. it will take a while to get the entrenched anti gun mantra out of former wachovia employees minds. until that letter comes in on western union letterhead i'd blame it on wachovia policies still in effect.

Oh I recognize that, but obviously the CEO of Wells Fargo referred the OP's letter to a senior VP in Virginia to respond. Until countermanded, that letter stands as their latest policy statement. I do take note that the VP did not copy the CEO, who may not be aware of the wide spread implications - if not, shame on him.
 

Repeater

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
2,498
Location
Richmond, Virginia, USA
The letter is insulting

Note that the Wachovia hack, Ms. O'Donnell, assumes customers who carry are prone to having 'an accident' -- does that assumption extend to off-duty cops, too?

After all, why take chances with anyone inside? Better safe than sorry. And that includes liability issues, both real and imagined.

Say -- maybe they provide an escort service upon request -- now that's customer service!
 

wylde007

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
3,035
Location
Va Beach, Occupied VA
I have one business owner whose establishment I will never again patronize who told me he prohibits guns in his restaurants for everyone - customers and employees - because, get this, he does not trust his employees.

It was fun to see him at a [city] venue where his restaurant was participating and taste his mediocre she-crab soup while carrying - in plain view of about a half-dozen sheriff's deputies and City of VB police.
 

SicSemperTyrannis

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
537
Location
Henrico County ,
Have I said lately how much I LOVE SUNTRUST???

They always treat me with respect and NEVER have a problem with my OCing.

I'm sorry so manhy of you have 'bank problems'. If Navy Federal didn't have the best rate (when I needed the very best interest rate I could get), I wouldn't have done business with them. I've seen previous posts where someone in NOVA wrote the senior leadership of Navy Fed a letter. I think it was ED and one of his amazing cards.

Thank all of you for what you do!

I had to do a rate search this past Saturday for personal reasons and Virginia Credit Union had much better rates on personal loans, auto loans and mortgages than did Navy Federal. In the case of personal loans, it was exactly 3.00% less! Auto loans were a full 1.00% lower than Navy Fed. And Virginia Credit Union does not ban firearms. Virginia Credit Union has 15 branches in Virginia (concentrated in the tri-cities area and Fredericksburg and Farmville) and owns every atm at every Wawa convenience store in the entire commonwealth, providing another 24/7 option. Navy Fed has always had one of the highest rate structures of any credit union in the country, only a little better than a bank. Find a better credit union! Most of them are firearm friendly!
 

Grapeshot

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+1 for Virginia Credit Union as having good rates and definitely "friendly"
icon14.png
 

SouthernBoy

Regular Member
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
5,837
Location
Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
I also deal with a local Wachovia and I conceal my sidearm when going in there. Here's why.

Before it was announced that Wachovia was being bought by Wells Fargo, I never carried my firearm into that building. After the announcement, I started seeing information on this site to the effect that Wells Fargo had a policy (which was presented in writing by a poster) that they adhered to the laws of the state in which they were operating. So I questioned one of the employees who I knew at this Wachovia about their sign and he said, "well you'll notice that it's for a revolver", his inference clearly being it did not cover pistols (his comment, not mine).

I continued to ask if and when Wachovia was going to be operating under and following the policies of Wells Fargo and when I received an answer that they already were for the most part, just some final things needed to be addressed and completed, I began concealing my sidearm even though the small sign was still on a door (remember, I was going by what I was told as to their adherence to Wells Fargo policies). I did not do this until I was assured that they were for all intents and purposes, a Wells Fargo operation.

It still appears that Wells Fargo follows the laws of the states in which they do business since the letter head offered in the beginning of this thread is Wachovia. My guess is that the lady believes the Wachovia policy is still in place. Perhaps ignorance may be bliss after all.
 
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nuc65

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Nov 22, 2009
Messages
1,121
Location
Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
It appears as though your letter was sent to the Wachovia division without a concern. Being that this is a business I would lodge a complaint with the BBB (for a variety of reasons) and note that a business falsely accusing a customer of breaking the law is poor customer service. The BBB will generate a response because it affects the Standard & Poors ratings. Companies don't like to have bad marks with the BBB. As it is your letter generated a little response in that you were blown off. Try the BBB route when dealing with a large corporation and you will probably get a larger response and more satisfaction.
 

Grapeshot

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..snip..
It still appears that Wells Fargo follows the laws of the states in which they do business since the letter head offered in the beginning of this thread is Wachovia. My guess is that the lady believes the Wachovia policy is still in place. Perhaps ignorance may be bliss after all.

Look at the letterhead again. It also states A Wells Fargo Company.

Also understand that the letter to Wells Fargo CEO was obviously forwarded to the Va. Senior VP for response - the duty was delegated. Her answer is clear.

The OP is awaiting further response from her which does NOT seem to be forthcoming.

I do agree that some serious follow through on this issue of following state laws may well be of benefit. Suggest going over her head to the top again.
 

TFred

Regular Member
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Oct 13, 2008
Messages
7,750
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Most historic town in, Virginia, USA

Consider me educated. Thank you for that. This is why i love this site.
As previously stated, many don't think that means what he thinks that means.

IANAL, so what I think doesn't mean anything either. But I like to live in the world of common sense, and I will be the first to admit that what happens with either LEOs or Courts quite often does not qualify.

In my "common sense" view of the world, a gunbuster sign is simply a sign that tells you something. It is saying we don't want you to carry a gun here. That does not make it illegal to carry a gun there, it means they don't want you to. Fine, it's their property, they get to set policy, but they don't get to write the law. If they ask you to leave and you don't, then you are breaking a law... a very different law, etc...

If I walk barefoot into a restaurant with a sign that says "Shoes and shirt required", does that mean I'm breaking the law? Or that they are going to ask me to leave? Same thing as before, if I refuse to leave, then I'm trespassing. If I take my kid to a community pool that has a sign on the fence that says "no running" and my kid forgets and runs 10 feet, does that make him a criminal? Of course not. It means they remind him to not run, and if he continues to run, they will ask us to leave.

I think some gun owners are waaay too willing to give up the legal high ground to people who are not entitled to it.

Of course, my point is that no other sign which attempts to modify behavior comes with the implied hammer of an automatic trespassing crime... unless there is some specific reason to say that it does*. Why should this be any different?

TFred

* Such as "No loitering. Trespassers will be prosecuted..."
 

Grapeshot

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I truly adore the signs often seen in bank parking lots: No Trespassing After Hours.

Can I therefore presume it is OK to trespass during normal business hours? :lol:
 

Grapeshot

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May 21, 2006
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I may have said it before but I am not sure that I have....

I like your humor!

Thank you kind sir - check's in the mail.

Seriously, I have found that a bit of levity causes people to listen and appreciate the lesson more. A smiling audience is more attentive, than a frowning one. Sometimes there is no purpose other than to make the other person smile.

That and it makes my life more enjoyable too.
 

DrMark

Lone Star Veteran
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
1,559
Location
Hampton Roads, Virginia, USA
In my "common sense" view of the world, a gunbuster sign is simply a sign that tells you something. It is saying we don't want you to carry a gun here. That does not make it illegal to carry a gun there, it means they don't want you to. Fine, it's their property, they get to set policy, but they don't get to write the law. If they ask you to leave and you don't, then you are breaking a law... a very different law, etc...

The signage mentioned in the quoted code of Virginia is related to tresspassing, not Wachovia rules. You are tresspassing when you are told to leave and do not do so.

Breaking a no firearms rule is no more tresspassing than breaking a no gum chewing rule is tresspassing.

...being discussed over here, in case you want to participate.

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...n-carrying-where-private-owner-does-not-allow
 

KBCraig

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Aug 7, 2007
Messages
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Location
Granite State of Mind
The signage mentioned in the quoted code of Virginia is related to tresspassing, not Wachovia rules. You are tresspassing when you are told to leave and do not do so.

Breaking a no firearms rule is no more tresspassing than breaking a no gum chewing rule is tresspassing.
This is why it's important to understand, and useful to discuss, the differences in terminology from state to state. I know this is the VA forum, but let me point out another state's rules just so people remember that the seriousness varies from one state to the next.

Texas, for instance, defines it this way:
Sec. 30.05. CRIMINAL TRESPASS.
(a) A person commits an offense if the person enters or remains on or in property of another, including residential land, agricultural land, a recreational vehicle park, a building, or an aircraft or other vehicle, without effective consent and the person:
(1) had notice that the entry was forbidden; or
(2) received notice to depart but failed to do so.

(b) For purposes of this section:
(1) "Entry" means the intrusion of the entire body.
(2) "Notice" means:
(A) oral or written communication by the owner or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner;
(B) fencing or other enclosure obviously designed to exclude intruders or to contain livestock;
(C) a sign or signs posted on the property or at the entrance to the building, reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders, indicating that entry is forbidden;

Also crucially important in Texas:
(d) An offense under this section is:
(3) a Class A misdemeanor if:
(B) the person carries a deadly weapon during the commission of the offense.

So, when the original Texas CHL law took effect in 1996, overlooking or ignoring a simple "gunbusters" sign could get you a full year in jail (Class A is the highest level of non-felony in Texas). Notice was posted that entry was forbidden (with a firearm), and you trespassed while carrying a deadly weapon, hope you didn't have plans for a while.

That's why in the next session they created Penal Code 30.06, which says PC 30.05 doesn't apply to someone with a valid CHL if the reason for exclusion was that the person is carrying a concealed handgun, unless they received proper notice under 30.06 -- which requires being verbally told guns aren't allowed, or a sign with mandatory language in 1" block letters in contrasting colors is posted in a way that is "conspicuous to the publice". (They can also hand you a card or other written document containing the same mandatory language.)

It's now almost impossible for a licensee to accidentally trespass while armed. I say "almost impossible", because I've done it myself: I went into a credit union, was waiting to talk to a loan officer, glanced back at the entrance and did a double-take: there was a proper 30.06 notice, big as life.

Then I saw why I hadn't seen it: it was on the door. The automatic sliding door, which was already open as I approached, which meant the notice was behind a large advertising display until the door closed.

Count your blessings if VA doesn't have such onerous trespass laws.
 
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