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open carry in hospital???

gogodawgs

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
5,669
Location
Federal Way, Washington, USA
I would like to ask why you are going ballistic with this?
Please note how originally I said.. "may declare" meaning as far as I am concerned, it is the States decision to declare what they will. Quoted below.

emphasis added

Your first challenge was demanding that I cite what Hospitals are Schools.. I did that.. now you are at it again!

I find it strange that you would take my "may" and turn it into an insinuation that I said that They have declared a GFZ!

You have a right to freedom of speech, You have a right to think how you wish..
You do not however, have a right to try to put words into my mouth.

Where did I go 'ballistic'? I simply asked you to cite your statement as I believe it to be misleading.

No the state may not declare it a GFZ, they are in violation of the RCW.

Relax.
 

gogodawgs

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
5,669
Location
Federal Way, Washington, USA
No Universities are not elementary or secondary institutions of education. That does not mean that they can not become GFZ's. <snip>

I am no longer a student, and the worst that can happen is that I am asked to leave. As an alum I attend many events at the UW and I carry each and every time. They may seem to be a GFZ for the student's, but even that is questionable under Article I Sec. 24 of the State Constitution and the RCW.
 

tombrewster421

Regular Member
Joined
May 25, 2010
Messages
1,326
Location
Roy, WA
I am no longer a student, and the worst that can happen is that I am asked to leave. As an alum I attend many events at the UW and I carry each and every time. They may seem to be a GFZ for the student's, but even that is questionable under Article I Sec. 24 of the State Constitution and the RCW.

Not to mention the fact that they can call it a "gun free zone" all they want. Doesn't mean there are no guns there. There's a woman in Portland that had her breasts removed and is legally a man. She had a baby, so apparently she's still a woman no matter what a piece of paper says.
 

amzbrady

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2009
Messages
3,521
Location
Marysville, Washington, USA
Not to mention the fact that they can call it a "gun free zone" all they want. Doesn't mean there are no guns there. There's a woman in Portland that had her breasts removed and is legally a man. She had a baby, so apparently she's still a woman no matter what a piece of paper says.

Evedintly in Canada they have been able to change the birth certificate for a transgender male that has been converted to a female.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/...-queen-i-always-knew-i-was-in-the-wrong-body/

I think trump went about this all wrong, instead of banning trannies, he should just ban any woman who has had any cosmetic surgery, Even natural born women should be banned if they had breast implants, these shows should be about natural beauty not how well they can alter themselves.
 

LkWd_Don

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2012
Messages
572
Location
Dolan Springs, AZ
Where did I go 'ballistic'? I simply asked you to cite your statement as I believe it to be misleading.

No the state may not declare it a GFZ, they are in violation of the RCW.

Relax.

A statement of MAY is misleading? And then continued insistence that I am wrong, implying that because of RCW 9.41.290 The State of Washington can not determine a School a GFZ.. Hummm, think about what you are saying with that..


In the mean time.. Please read the following and consider how that also would apply to the Rules that the Legislature of the State of Washington May (there is that word again) enact since they have the Full Authority under .290 to do so as they authored RCW 9.41.290 to begin with. LOL

RCW 9.41.290:

"RCW 9.41.290
State preemption.

The state of Washington hereby fully occupies and preempts the entire field of firearms regulation within the boundaries of the state, including the registration, licensing, possession, purchase, sale, acquisition, transfer, discharge, and transportation of firearms, or any other element relating to firearms or parts thereof, including ammunition and reloader components."

Who operates a state-operated hospital in the state of Washington? The State of Washington does. Who does RCW 9.41.290 say has the power to occupy the entire field of firearms regulation? The State of Washington. So, if the State of Washington operates a state-operated hospital and the State of Washington occupies the entire field of firearms regulation, what would prevent the State of Washington from regulating the possession of firearms in the hospitals that the State of Washington operates?

Then I would like to post that for the University of Washington, Title 478 of the Washington Administrative Code applies.
In this cite.. I will agree it is written to effect Students only, unlike a couple of the others I posted last night which were worded to apply to all who enter the campus. However, the wording in this is generic enough to cause Local LEOs to become involved if need be.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=478-120-020
WAC 478-120-020
(3) Specific instances of misconduct include, but are not limited to:
~~
(f) Possession or use of firearms, explosives, dangerous chemicals or other dangerous weapons or instrumentalities on university premises, except for authorized university purposes, unless prior written approval has been obtained from the university chief of police, or any other person designated by the president of the university (see WAC 478-124-020 (2)(e)) (legal defense sprays are not covered by this section);
 

LkWd_Don

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2012
Messages
572
Location
Dolan Springs, AZ
Violating a Washington Administrative Code is not a criminal act. The WAC is just another "no guns" sign like just like you would see at a store. Not taking anyone's side here, just stating a fact.

I agree. In order for a WAC to effectively make something a criminal act.. it must have an RCW for a Statutory Authority that makes it so.

As with any law.. not knowing you are violating a law may help you if there is an "intention clause" in the law being violated, but does not generally provide you with a defense.

Just saying
 

LkWd_Don

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2012
Messages
572
Location
Dolan Springs, AZ
It is vastly more important to know that there is no law in place that you are breaking....

Cops write citations for acts every day that would not stand up in court. They are just betting that the defendant is too lazy, stupid or poor to take it to court. It's much easier for them to just write the citation and be done with it than to research if a law has actually been broken. Let the judge sort it out, IF it goes to court, and in most everyday citations - that's a dang big IF.

Agreed!

So even if it is only an Administrative code, one needs to know that the Statutory Authority it derives its authority from is not an RCW that might hold criminal penalties.

Just saying.
 

Difdi

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
987
Location
Seattle, Washington, USA
Who operates a state-operated hospital in the state of Washington? The State of Washington does. Who does RCW 9.41.290 say has the power to occupy the entire field of firearms regulation? The State of Washington. So, if the State of Washington operates a state-operated hospital and the State of Washington occupies the entire field of firearms regulation, what would prevent the State of Washington from regulating the possession of firearms in the hospitals that the State of Washington operates?

The problem there, is that most elements of the state government lack the authority to create statutes. As such, their policies may forbid something, but it's not a statute, and therefore breaking it is not a crime.

Then there's the state constitution. The state constitution's protection on keeping and bearing arms is stronger than the second amendment. If a statute can override the constitution then the constitution does not, effectively, exist. Sure, people ignore the law all the time, but that makes them lawbreakers, it doesn't repeal the law(s).

If a WAC can repeal the constitutional right to keep and bear arms, then a WAC could also repeal any other constitutional right. Freedom of religion, for example. A WAC mandating, say, Southern Baptist as the only permissible religion in the facility, would be just as legal as a WAC that creates a firearms ban. And just as enforceable.
 
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1911er

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2009
Messages
833
Location
Port Orchard Wa. /Granite Oklahoma
A little OT

Evedintly in Canada they have been able to change the birth certificate for a transgender male that has been converted to a female.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/...-queen-i-always-knew-i-was-in-the-wrong-body/

I think trump went about this all wrong, instead of banning trannies, he should just ban any woman who has had any cosmetic surgery, Even natural born women should be banned if they had breast implants, these shows should be about natural beauty not how well they can alter themselves.

I think the topic is starting to wander
 
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