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Surrendering open carry firearms for police inspection

MagiCyle

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2014
Messages
15
Location
California, United States
Ladies & Gents,

If a citizen is legally open carrying and a police officer asks to see the gun, does the law require the citizen to surrender the firearm for inspection?
 
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WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
Gents,

If a citizen is legally open carrying and a police officer asks to see the gun, does the law require the citizen to surrender the firearm for inspection?

Big difference between ask and demand~if asked I will always say no~if it is a stop or detention my primary goal is to stay alive and healthy. So while he/she may take my gun without my permission, I will never touch it, whether demanded or asked.
 

wrearick

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2013
Messages
650
Location
Virginia Beach, Va.
IANAL but IMHO it is a request for a search of person or property and you are not required to consent to it and I would simply state that I do not consent to a search of myself or my property. They can ask and if you say yes or hand over your firearm you have given consent. Believe me, if the officer has cause and is requiring you to turn over your weapon it will be stated at as a demand and probably with one or more firearms pointed at you.
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
IANA ATTORNEY and yada, yada, but -

No.

"I do not consent to any search of my person or my property, but I will not physically resist you."

And you are wearing a digital voice recorder, aren't you?

And you are keeping a running commentary, beginning with getting the officer to state his/her name (or refuse to provide same), your refusal to consent to a search, and a moment-by-moment description of the officer's actions.*

And of course, the standard "Am I free to go?" (NEVER-EVER ask if you are under arrest unless you want to be.)

If you are told that you are free to go, by all that you hold holy and dear put your legs in motion and go. Do not look behind you. Do not converse with the cop as you walk away. Just go!

You are probably going to be detained, your gun taken away from you and removed to the squadcar where an attempt will be made to run it against some database of stolen firearms and maybe other databases. Let it happen. The time to argue is not on the side of the road.

stay safe.

* - "One is none and two is one." Some of us use two (or more) recorders. One visible or easily discovered, and another not so visible. Personally I like the USB stick recorders - around $10 from China and work well at the bottom of my shirt pocket or on a chain around my neck. I have a few folders on them with text files of medical info in case I end up in a hospital and cannot remember all the important stuff. One of the folders may or may not be for audio recordings as opposed to text files.
 

MagiCyle

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2014
Messages
15
Location
California, United States
IANAL but IMHO it is a request for a search of person or property and you are not required to consent to it and I would simply state that I do not consent to a search of myself or my property. They can ask and if you say yes or hand over your firearm you have given consent. Believe me, if the officer has cause and is requiring you to turn over your weapon it will be stated at as a demand and probably with one or more firearms pointed at you.

Thanks for the response. The reasons I'm asking is because I'm new to OC. I have not done it yet. I want to ensure I understand my rights and the laws before I OC.

I guess what I'm wondering is, IYHO, what reasons would LEO's need to demand the surrender of a weapon from a law abiding citizen?
For example, is there a law that grants them authority to seize anyone's weapon at their discretion for the purpose of running the serial number?
Under what circumstances might they demand the turn over of the weapon from a citizen who is abiding by the law?
 

MagiCyle

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2014
Messages
15
Location
California, United States
IANA ATTORNEY and yada, yada, but -

No.

"I do not consent to any search of my person or my property, but I will not physically resist you."

And you are wearing a digital voice recorder, aren't you?

And you are keeping a running commentary, beginning with getting the officer to state his/her name (or refuse to provide same), your refusal to consent to a search, and a moment-by-moment description of the officer's actions.*

And of course, the standard "Am I free to go?" (NEVER-EVER ask if you are under arrest unless you want to be.)

If you are told that you are free to go, by all that you hold holy and dear put your legs in motion and go. Do not look behind you. Do not converse with the cop as you walk away. Just go!

You are probably going to be detained, your gun taken away from you and removed to the squadcar where an attempt will be made to run it against some database of stolen firearms and maybe other databases. Let it happen. The time to argue is not on the side of the road.

stay safe.

* - "One is none and two is one." Some of us use two (or more) recorders. One visible or easily discovered, and another not so visible. Personally I like the USB stick recorders - around $10 from China and work well at the bottom of my shirt pocket or on a chain around my neck. I have a few folders on them with text files of medical info in case I end up in a hospital and cannot remember all the important stuff. One of the folders may or may not be for audio recordings as opposed to text files.

Awesome. I appreciate the insights. A recorder with medical folders is a good idea... but that raises another question. Forgive my ignorance on the topic and this may be a stupid question, but I think I've heard of people getting charged for "illegal wire tapping(?)" when video recording police. Will that recording be admissible in court if it is done without the LEO's consent or knowledge?
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
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35,317
Location
Valhalla
Awesome. I appreciate the insights. A recorder with medical folders is a good idea... but that raises another question. Forgive my ignorance on the topic and this may be a stupid question, but I think I've heard of people getting charged for "illegal wire tapping(?)" when video recording police. Will that recording be admissible in court if it is done without the LEO's consent or knowledge?
Virginia is a one party consent state......and you are "one party". We are not talking about incepting electronic/telehone communications.
http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/virginia-recording-law
 

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
Virginia is a one party consent state......and you are "one party". We are not talking about incepting electronic/telehone communications.
http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/virginia-recording-law

Almost all states are "one-party" consent for face to face conversations .. people confuse face to face and telephone recording all the time...so folks should insure that they are looking at the right set of circumstances.

In CT, face to face is one, telephone is two.
 

wrearick

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2013
Messages
650
Location
Virginia Beach, Va.
Thanks for the response. The reasons I'm asking is because I'm new to OC. I have not done it yet. I want to ensure I understand my rights and the laws before I OC.

I guess what I'm wondering is, IYHO, what reasons would LEO's need to demand the surrender of a weapon from a law abiding citizen?
For example, is there a law that grants them authority to seize anyone's weapon at their discretion for the purpose of running the serial number?
Under what circumstances might they demand the turn over of the weapon from a citizen who is abiding by the law?

While it is denied, many are of the opinion that an unofficial record of gun owners and their weapons serial numbers is being created/maintained. I have heard it called "officer journal notes" ect. An officer "taking" your firearm will normally go to his car and "run" the serial number to "check" if the item has been reported stolen. Again, the court cases you have been given show he must have RAS to do this UNLESS you willing hand over the item.

Reasons for asking, more times than not "officer safety" - they are uncomfortable with you having a firearm so they would like you to surrender it to their safe keeping for the remainder of the encounter. The LAW doesn't require you to do so but what the heck, they can ask, and if you say yes, well, might as well run the number through the criminal data base.....

Answer to the "I would like to go ahead and hold the weapon during the remainder of this encounter, it is really for both of our safety....." is "Officer ________ (hopefully you can get him to provide his name), I understand your concern, but I believe the item will be much safer for all parties the less it is handled. I believe the safest place is for it to remain in it's holster." As others have stated, if the officer insists, refuse to touch the firearm but inform them they can physically remove it from you. Also a good time to ask if you are free to go. Make sure you get the officer to state his name for your recording device. It is a judgment call, with every situation being different, as to whether you "choose" to let the office know you are recording the conversation. Some that are bullying and pushing the legal limits will back off once they know a record is being kept of the conversation, others may respond by acting worse. As another response indicated, the side of the road is not where disagreements on the law is to be won, get through the encounter without "surrendering" any of your rights and follow up afterwards in the courts if you believe your rights were infringed.
 

Maverick9

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
1,404
Location
Mid-atlantic
Any chance you can carry with another person, if they also OC that's even better. Always run your recorder, turn it on before you leave the house.

Good luck!
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
Run a recorder even if you are unarmed, especially if you carry a cane. At least one person has been shot for carrying a cane.
 

MagiCyle

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2014
Messages
15
Location
California, United States
While it is denied, many are of the opinion that an unofficial record of gun owners and their weapons serial numbers is being created/maintained. I have heard it called "officer journal notes" ect. An officer "taking" your firearm will normally go to his car and "run" the serial number to "check" if the item has been reported stolen. Again, the court cases you have been given show he must have RAS to do this UNLESS you willing hand over the item.

Reasons for asking, more times than not "officer safety" - they are uncomfortable with you having a firearm so they would like you to surrender it to their safe keeping for the remainder of the encounter. The LAW doesn't require you to do so but what the heck, they can ask, and if you say yes, well, might as well run the number through the criminal data base.....

Answer to the "I would like to go ahead and hold the weapon during the remainder of this encounter, it is really for both of our safety....." is "Officer ________ (hopefully you can get him to provide his name), I understand your concern, but I believe the item will be much safer for all parties the less it is handled. I believe the safest place is for it to remain in it's holster." As others have stated, if the officer insists, refuse to touch the firearm but inform them they can physically remove it from you. Also a good time to ask if you are free to go. Make sure you get the officer to state his name for your recording device. It is a judgment call, with every situation being different, as to whether you "choose" to let the office know you are recording the conversation. Some that are bullying and pushing the legal limits will back off once they know a record is being kept of the conversation, others may respond by acting worse. As another response indicated, the side of the road is not where disagreements on the law is to be won, get through the encounter without "surrendering" any of your rights and follow up afterwards in the courts if you believe your rights were infringed.

Very helpful. Much appreciated. Thank you very much.
 

The Truth

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2014
Messages
1,972
Location
Henrico
Ladies & Gents,

If a citizen is legally open carrying and a police officer asks to see the gun, does the law require the citizen to surrender the firearm for inspection?

Under no circumstances would I EVER turn my gun over to police if I have not committed a crime. If no crime has been committed, you are under no obligation to even acknowledge LEO's query.

"Fourth Circuit Finds That Carrying a Firearm in an Open-Carry State Does Not Create Reasonable Suspicion and Provides Thorough Analysis of the "Free to Leave" Standard of Seizure"

http://www.fedagent.com/columns/cas...ysis-of-the-free-to-leave-standard-of-seizure
 

JamesCanby

Activist Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
1,480
Location
Alexandria, VA at www.NoVA-MDSelfDefense.com
Under no circumstances would I EVER turn my gun over to police if I have not committed a crime. If no crime has been committed, you are under no obligation to even acknowledge LEO's query.

"Fourth Circuit Finds That Carrying a Firearm in an Open-Carry State Does Not Create Reasonable Suspicion and Provides Thorough Analysis of the "Free to Leave" Standard of Seizure"

http://www.fedagent.com/columns/cas...ysis-of-the-free-to-leave-standard-of-seizure

Under NO circumstances? Are you saying that you would physically resist any attempt by a Law Enforcement Officer to remove your firearm?

Or are you saying that you would never, under any circumstance, hand your firearm to a requesting/demanding LEO, instead requiring the LEO to disarm you?

Just looking to gain clarification of your statement.
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
Under NO circumstances? Are you saying that you would physically resist any attempt by a Law Enforcement Officer to remove your firearm?

Or are you saying that you would never, under any circumstance, hand your firearm to a requesting/demanding LEO, instead requiring the LEO to disarm you?

Just looking to gain clarification of your statement.

Wondering the same thing James. While I agree with the thought. I'd like to have plenty of popcorn watching the SWAT Team come out over a resisting OC'er.....that's assuming he hadn't already been shot by the officer.

I'm assuming he means he'd never consent to it.
 
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