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How to assess danger of open-carriers?

WalkingWolf

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The person nonchalantly open carrying has nothing to hide.

The criminal, or one is intent on causing harm, most likely will not open carry. Their actions require concealment.

Unfortunately there is that very small percentage that act like buffoons while carrying. Buffoons are in every segment of society, we are not immune.
 

OC for ME

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Unfortunately there is that very small percentage that act like buffoons while carrying. Buffoons are in every segment of society, we are not immune.
Very true.

Yet the buffoonary of the civilian type is typically, and regularly held to account, even when the buffoonary is legal. The buffoonary of the LE type is rarely held to account and this buffoonary is usually illegal. Both are OC.
 

PeterNSteinmetz

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Apr 20, 2014
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Tempe, Arizona
The person nonchalantly open carrying has nothing to hide.

The criminal, or one is intent on causing harm, most likely will not open carry. Their actions require concealment.

I agree this is certainly correct. I'm just trying to think of socratic method type questions to ask the fearful people, which will not come across as threatening them and that will get them to consider this point.

I also suspect that education at an early age in some familiarity with guns is the best long run solution, but what about for those that have already had the poor early education and lack of experience that breeds unreasonable fears?

A number of relatives and friends fall into this group and I'm fairly certain this subject will come up when I next visit home ;)
 

Levi

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Mar 20, 2012
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Tacoma
Recently a friend of mine demonstrated how to use a common bath towel to cave in a man's skull. The demonstration included a technique in action segment that left an indelible impression on me.

It's behavior, not items at hand, that are the threat. When ever I hear "I don't want the bad guy to have the means to do harm" I immediate think of all the things that can be used.

The average home has a collection of tools and chemicals that can be used to injure or cause death. The Home Depot is practically a cornucopia of alternative methods of carnage generation.

How do I know that guy carrying that hardware store shopping bag isn't a threat?
 

tomrkba

Regular Member
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Dec 4, 2011
Messages
125
Location
Virginia
People need to learn the pre-crime indicators and how to react to them.

A person can be carrying and very angry, but does not show any of the pre-crime indicators. Therefore, there is likely no threat simply because they can see a gun (nothing changes if it is concealed). Both parties will need to deal with the anger in a non-violent way.

An example of a pre-crime indicator for this situation would be the angry person taps the weapon. Should the person attack the open carrier, he would have to be able to state why he fought: there was an argument, OC'er became angry and used aggressive language (possibly committing assault), his face turned white (blood running to core for a fight) and he touched the handgun. The entirety of the indicators creates a high probability that a fight is about to start.
 
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WalkingWolf

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Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
Recently a friend of mine demonstrated how to use a common bath towel to cave in a man's skull. The demonstration included a technique in action segment that left an indelible impression on me.

It's behavior, not items at hand, that are the threat. When ever I hear "I don't want the bad guy to have the means to do harm" I immediate think of all the things that can be used.

The average home has a collection of tools and chemicals that can be used to injure or cause death. The Home Depot is practically a cornucopia of alternative methods of carnage generation.

How do I know that guy carrying that hardware store shopping bag isn't a threat?

All we have to do is look at the incidents of road rage where no gun is needed for danger. It is a pretty good bet that if a person becomes unstable they are a danger armed or not.
 

hovercat

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Joined
Feb 15, 2014
Messages
57
Location
Texas
The replies in #4 and #14 are not helpful IMO. A male OC a penis on a public street is acting outside the norms of polite society, and would commonly be seen as a threat to children at least. Do we really want to go there, why a piece of cloth covering (concealing) makes it OK?
 

Batousaii

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Jun 16, 2009
Messages
1,226
Location
Kitsap Co., Washington, USA
<snip>...... "I can't tell whether this person carrying a gun is a good guy or a bad guy, so I'm frightened" ......<snip>

Reply: "Oh? .. So...You have reduced cognitive abilities??? ... That’s too bad.."


People who claim they can't tell the difference are usually full of crap (though some actually do have reduced cognitive abilities...sad). So, when they say this, it's usually to load the conversation in their favor, not to conduct an actual dialog or learn the difference. - If someone offers a genuine, realistic concern, then they will get a genuine answer that intended to be helpful and informative and help them understand. Sometime people, unfortunately, are genuinely neurotic, and those ones it's simply best to keep the conversation short leave em alone.

 
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hovercat

Regular Member
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Feb 15, 2014
Messages
57
Location
Texas
Tomrkba, I hope that you misunderstood my post. I want my rights and OC while I was working in WA. If you read the referenced posts they spoke of the silliness of a man being a threat of rape because of possessing a penis. By extension, society somehow sees him as less of a threat with a piece of cloth covering. I do not see the help to OC rights by comparing this to OC not being a threat in itself.
 

tomrkba

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2011
Messages
125
Location
Virginia
Tomrkba, I hope that you misunderstood my post. I want my rights and OC while I was working in WA. If you read the referenced posts they spoke of the silliness of a man being a threat of rape because of possessing a penis. By extension, society somehow sees him as less of a threat with a piece of cloth covering. I do not see the help to OC rights by comparing this to OC not being a threat in itself.

Oh, sorry, your post was not clear. I will delete my post then. All good!!
 
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sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
Yes, I am interested in what to ask scared people to help them when the subject comes up. Otherwise, I'm quite happy to ignore them if they haven't expressed any concern.


I have used this several times , especially when talking to children who ask about my gun in front of their parents.

I mention that if they ever see someone with a gun in their hand take cover and call the police. It means two things , either he is a bad guy intent on harm or he is a good guy who is going to need help.
 

OC for ME

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Jan 6, 2010
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White Oak Plantation
I have used this several times , especially when talking to children who ask about my gun in front of their parents.

I mention that if they ever see someone with a gun in their hand take cover and call the police. It means two things , either he is a bad guy intent on harm or he is a good guy who is going to need help.
A good guy with a gun is a bad guy to cops.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
I agree this is certainly correct. I'm just trying to think of socratic method type questions to ask the fearful people, which will not come across as threatening them and that will get them to consider this point.

I also suspect that education at an early age in some familiarity with guns is the best long run solution, but what about for those that have already had the poor early education and lack of experience that breeds unreasonable fears?

A number of relatives and friends fall into this group and I'm fairly certain this subject will come up when I next visit home ;)
I ask, when you drive, would you not rather see the vehicles on the road and judge them by their actions, than have them all hidden/concealed from your view?
 

OC for ME

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Messages
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White Oak Plantation
The point missed about Socratic/Platonic dialogue is that the interlocutors are fictions of the author.

In general argumentation the first necessity is a commitment to concord (Zarefsky), without which argumentation becomes wrangling and bickering -- just as is practiced here. That's a fancy way of saying that a mule can be led to water but it cannot be made to think.
You don't know jack about mules. This is where many self proclaimed critical thinkers fall flat on the Plato.
 
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