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A question not asked: Forensics in Zimmerman case..

j4l

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Cant believe this didnt occur to me before, and can believe even less that amidst all this hoopla and debate surrounding the Z case, no else seems to have thought of it, either..
While reviewing some other autopsy reports today, one of which involved a shooting victim in a situation not unlike what is alleged to have happened with M and Z, i dawned on me:

The forensics of the shooting , and the autopsy, would have cleared up a lot of the "who-did-what" nonsense early-on.
If, as is thought, Martin was on top of Z when Z shot him- the angle/ trajectory of his shot into M- esp. at that close range, would have been pretty clear.
Of course, the investigators in this already know this, so It is certainly one angle that explains, or should explain, to folks why Z was not arrested or charged..
 

j4l

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Now, you know you can't go interjecting fact and logic into a situation such as this. The masses would never accept it anyway at this point.

Right? Common-sense and facts would just get in the way of the agendas...

But, I do think the PD in Sanford could have found a way to express-even if not in details that would be in violation of Martin's medical privacy- that the forensic evidence of his death tell a different story than what biased folks would LIKE to be the case. This may have helped, somewhat at least, to put the deep-six on a lot of the speculation surrounding such a case.
 

Grapeshot

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During the scuffle on the ground Zimmerman began trying to get his handgun out of his belt. Trayvon attempted to get the gun away from Zimmerman. Zimmerman then shot Trayvon once in the chest at very close range, according to authorities.

The impact of the shot thrust Trayvon upward, backward, and partially spun him around to land on his stomach.

The handgun was a Kel-Tec PF9 semiautomatic 9mm pistol. The police took immediate custody of the weapon when they arrived on scene. The gun was recovered with a full magazine and only the chambered round had been fired.

This is a condition associated with something preventing the gun from cycling a fresh round from the magazine into the chamber after the shot was discharged. One thing that can cause this condition is another man’s hand wrapped around the pistol, retarding its slide mechanism.

This would indicate, as the coroner’s office affirmed, that specific gunshot residue patterns and cuts were present in certain places on Trayvon Martin’s hand(s), and that a struggle for a gun was taking place when the fatal shot was fired.


http://theconservativetreehouse.com...-thug-drug-dealing-thief-and-wannabe-gangsta/
 

MedWheeler

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The gun was recovered with a full magazine and only the chambered round had been fired.

This, if actually true to the word, would definitely imply that the gun jammed when it was fired (failed to feed the next round), since the magazine is reported to have still been full. That would then imply that the shot was from "contact-distance", since such contact with an autoloader during firing can result in a malfunction. Another possibility is that, during the scuffle, the magazine was partially or fully dislodged.
 
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H

Herr Heckler Koch

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This, if actually true to the word, would definitely imply that the gun jammed when it was fired (failed to feed the next round), since the magazine is reported to have still been full. That would then imply that the shot was from "contact-distance", since such contact with an autoloader during firing can result in a malfunction. Another possibility is that, during the scuffle, the magazine was partially or fully dislodged.
The cited blog article asserted GSR on Trayvon's hand.
 

Redbaron007

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During the scuffle on the ground Zimmerman began trying to get his handgun out of his belt. Trayvon attempted to get the gun away from Zimmerman. Zimmerman then shot Trayvon once in the chest at very close range, according to authorities.

The impact of the shot thrust Trayvon upward, backward, and partially spun him around to land on his stomach.

The handgun was a Kel-Tec PF9 semiautomatic 9mm pistol. The police took immediate custody of the weapon when they arrived on scene. The gun was recovered with a full magazine and only the chambered round had been fired.

This is a condition associated with something preventing the gun from cycling a fresh round from the magazine into the chamber after the shot was discharged. One thing that can cause this condition is another man’s hand wrapped around the pistol, retarding its slide mechanism.

This would indicate, as the coroner’s office affirmed, that specific gunshot residue patterns and cuts were present in certain places on Trayvon Martin’s hand(s), and that a struggle for a gun was taking place when the fatal shot was fired.


http://theconservativetreehouse.com...-thug-drug-dealing-thief-and-wannabe-gangsta/

Funny how facts confuse the media!

Interesting read!
 

gunns

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Just because forensics says Trayvon had burns indicating he was trying to take the gun, does not disprove the theory that he was afraid and fighting for his life. What if this was Z getting in his face and then a fight ensued that Z was loosing and he panicked. That would still be murder.

I am just saying, not taking sides.
 

Coltman151

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Just because forensics says Trayvon had burns indicating he was trying to take the gun, does not disprove the theory that he was afraid and fighting for his life. What if this was Z getting in his face and then a fight ensued that Z was loosing and he panicked. That would still be murder.

I am just saying, not taking sides.

That's a good point. Although shouldn't the angle be different depending on who was on top?
 

Redbaron007

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Just because forensics says Trayvon had burns indicating he was trying to take the gun, does not disprove the theory that he was afraid and fighting for his life. What if this was Z getting in his face and then a fight ensued that Z was loosing and he panicked. That would still be murder.

I am just saying, not taking sides.

But this would conflict with the alleged witness' story.
 

09jisaac

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That's a good point. Although shouldn't the angle be different depending on who was on top?

He is saying that it doesn't really matter who is on top or who is winning. If Z started a the violence with M and then M got the upper hand then Z would only have the right to use deadly physical force in certain limited circumstances. And I don't know if there is any circumstances that you can use deadly physical force if you started the physical force in Florida.
 

Dreamer

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Another bit of forensic evidence that hasn't been discussed is the condition of Mr. Martins hands, specifically his knuckles. IF he was, indeed, pummeling Mr. Zimmerman, then his knuckles should show signs of trauma. This has not been discussed at all in the media. It will be interesting to see if the condition of his hands comes out in "discovery" or in the trial (because there WILL be a trial).

I'm wondering how much time the media will dedicate to corrections and apologies when the truth of this situation is revealed in court by forensic experts and eye witnesses. Probably not NEARLY as much time as they have spent lynching Mr. Zimmerman before the truth is known.
 

09jisaac

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I'm wondering how much time the media will dedicate to corrections and apologies when the truth of this situation is revealed in court by forensic experts and eye witnesses. Probably not NEARLY as much time as they have spent lynching Mr. Zimmerman before the truth is known.

Even though I think Zimmerman is innocent too we shouldn't be so fast to jump to conclusions. If Zimmerman did shoot Martin for any reason that doesn't constitute justifiable homicide then most main stream media would have been right all along. But if, when the truth is reveled, Zimmerman is found to have acted in self defense then I do think you are right about media not devoting much time to corrections and apologies. But why would they? A lot of people don't hold them to as high of standards as they once were. Honor has greatly left our culture as a whole.
 

JimK

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What irks me is the mainstream media always showing a picture of M in his football uniform when he was probably 12 years old. It sure does make him appear to be a clean cut youth.
 

scott58dh

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Media fueled Racism

The Main Stream Media should be held responsible for feeding the flames of this situation, they continually called "Z" *** White Hispanic Descent *** and also with Sharpton/Jackson showing up to continue feeding the distorted facts is disgusting.

When this issue comes to trial, the truth will be known, then hopefully some sense of sanity will rule and all involved will rise up and demand that the wrongs of the media righted and lessons will be learned and applied for future cases.
 
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09jisaac

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What irks me is the mainstream media always showing a picture of M in his football uniform when he was probably 12 years old. It sure does make him appear to be a clean cut youth.

The current M didn't fit the story they were trying to portray. It would be hard to gain support for a "thug".

The Main Stream Media should be held responsible for feeding the flames of this situation, they continually called "Z" *** White Hispanic Descent *** and also with Sharpton/Jackson showing up to continue feeding the distorted facts is disgusting.

When this issue comes to trial, the truth will be known, then hopefully some sense of sanity will rule and all involved will rise up and demand that the wrongs of the media righted and lessons will be learned and applied for future cases.

If Z is found innocent then he does need to sue MSM for all the misleading things they have gave to the public as "fact".
 

Dreamer

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What price honor? What price integrity?

Sold for 30 pieces of silver.


Speaking of which, the background of the "Audio Forensic Expert" (Tom Owen) that has been trotted out by the press extolling the "scientific certainty" of the software he uses is an interesting tale indeed.

Turns out, he OWNS the company that developed and is marketing this software--at $5,000 a pop.

Want the truth--follow the money...

http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/about-those-audio-forsenic-experts
 

Grapeshot

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Those making race an issue are feeding the flames, including those of us here that take part in that.

This thread, indeed this forum is, NOT about race.

Discuss the facts of the case responsibly w/o being side tracked and/or hijacking the thread. Will even go so far as to say that if your opinions aren't race neutral, then they do not belong here and will not be condoned.

Did I say that nice enough?
 
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