• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

stopped by off duty deputy at Wal-Mart

wrightme

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
5,574
Location
Fallon, Nevada, USA
Exactly my point. =) It's up to the business owner, in some cases, whether they want to press charges or not. The stop signs in the parking lot aren't enforced that I've seen, possibly because the owner has discussed with the police that it's no big deal--unless that person plows over a bunch of pedestrians. Then, I believe, it's out of the business owner's hands.
I don't think that is exactly the point. As has been mentioned, stop signs on private property likely do not carry the weight of law; in this case, the motor vehicle code. Thus, an LE witnessing someone 'running a stop sign in the WM parking lot' isn't witness to a crime of any kind. But, the same LE would be witness to a crime if they saw someone breaking into a vehicle that was obviously not theirs.
 

wrightme

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
5,574
Location
Fallon, Nevada, USA
To an extent. If officers are called by neighbors because a husband is beating his wife, if the wife doesn't want to press charges, nothing is going to happen. What I'm about to say is hearsay but, I've had conversations with people who have stolen items from Walmart, been caught but, no charges were pressed because the items were below $50. If an officer had witnessed the theft but, Walmart says "Eh, no big deal.", I don't believe the officer would perform an arrest.
Not everywhere. In some states, the state/city/county or whomever CAN press the charges. Especially if an LE witnessed it. DV carries a different weight, as anyone who is now a 'prohibited person' due to a DV conviction can attest.
 

ThatOneChick

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2009
Messages
113
Location
North Side *Represents*, Utah, USA
I don't think that is exactly the point. As has been mentioned, stop signs on private property likely do not carry the weight of law; in this case, the motor vehicle code. Thus, an LE witnessing someone 'running a stop sign in the WM parking lot' isn't witness to a crime of any kind. But, the same LE would be witness to a crime if they saw someone breaking into a vehicle that was obviously not theirs.

Unless the business owner has spoken with the police and told them "I want you to enforce this and that and whatever else". Graffiti is generally against the law. If a business owner tells the police "We like the art on our building. It's living, it'd dynamic, it's creative. Don't arrest people for tagging on our property." Then, officers probably aren't going to raise a finger to stop it. On the other hand, "We hate taggers. It's costing us so much to clean up their mess! Please keep an eye out for it." Officers are going to act differently.

Not everywhere. In some states, the state/city/county or whomever CAN press the charges. Especially if an LE witnessed it. DV carries a different weight, as anyone who is now a 'prohibited person' due to a DV conviction can attest.

I'm not well versed on every state's laws so I can only speculate. Forgive me on that.
 

William Fisher

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2011
Messages
238
Location
Oxford, Ohio
Not everywhere. In some states, the state/city/county or whomever CAN press the charges. Especially if an LE witnessed it. DV carries a different weight, as anyone who is now a 'prohibited person' due to a DV conviction can attest.

In Ohio if neighbors call law for husband beating wife and she doesn't want to prees charges he'll still go to jail if she has signs of injuries. Any domestic violence call if someone is injured, the other goes to jail and the court sorts it out. I remember back in the day, slapping the wife around wasn't viewed much differently then spanking a child. It's a real good thing that has changed.
 

DocWalker

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
1,922
Location
Mountain Home, Idaho, USA
Dam, my wife shoots as good as me. I have bought her pistols for her birthday, Aniversary, and yes even Valentines day. She carries 24/7 (usally concealed) and we go shooting about 2-3 times a month. She is a hot red head that likes guns like Reba on the movie "Tremers".

I WOULDN'T DARE HIT HER SHE WOULD SHOOT ME.........
 

edc

New member
Joined
Dec 27, 2011
Messages
7
Location
Southaven, MS/Memphis, TN
THIS. If you even acknowledge him, you are complying. You have ZERO reason to comply, or even answer him. You don't owe him anything. Just some idiot in walmart saying, "hey wait" should be ignored. The entire interaction with him was VOLUNTARY on your part. You volunteered to stop and listen to his questions. Then you got to the point of asking him, "am I being detained"? Once he answered, "no", you should have said, "see ya later" and started walking. It might sound rude, but it's more rude to be illegally searched by some thug. Next time, don't even respond. Or if you have to, try this.

Plain clothes nobody with badge: "Hey wait a minute".

You: "No I don't want to, see you later". (walk away) If he's whipped out and showing his badge, you could say, "thanks for the offer to contract, but no thanks, see ya fella".

Anything that has to do with leaving without complying is best. If you interact at all to begin with, remember it is VOLUNTARY, until they decide to "detain" (arrest) you. NOTHING says you have to talk to them.

I agree with you 100%.

My friend's always say that I'm an a-hole because I ignore a lot of people that randomly try talking to me. If I have no business talking to you, please step away. haha They don't want to act "rude" by ignoring a stranger or even some door to door salesman.
 
Last edited:

Kirbinator

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2010
Messages
903
Location
Middle of the map, Alabama
Flashed a badge and what??

Call 911. Right now. Report a police impersonator. Tell them you are holding him until they get there. And you have a gun.

You have no way to check his credentials. And until the police arrive, he's the one who gave you PC.

Anyone can hold a badge....
 

sawah

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2011
Messages
436
Location
Virginia
I just thought of something that gave me a "duh" moment. It wouldn't have made any difference whether or not this officer was on or off duty, whether or not he was in full uniform or jeans and a flannel shirt. This incident took place on private property! The officer has no jurisdiction on private property unless called by management/ownership (or to intervene in the obvious such as theft or malicious activity).

Am I wrong with this?

It's always going to be a 'you can beat the rap but not the ride' situation. A LEO can attempt to arrest you at any time, right or wrong and then you have the option to fight it.
 

SouthernBoy

Regular Member
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
5,837
Location
Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
It's always going to be a 'you can beat the rap but not the ride' situation. A LEO can attempt to arrest you at any time, right or wrong and then you have the option to fight it.

While that is probably on spot, if you are on private property and have the permission to open carry a firearm, there is nothing the police can do about it. It would be the same if you were in or about your home and a cruiser drove by, saw you, then tried to come on your property to question and possibly arrest you. Granted they can attempt this, but they would be acting outside of their authority and performing an illegal arrest under the color of law.

But you're right in that some very well might try just about anything simply because they believe they can. Police depend a good deal upon two things to get what they want: 1) intimidation and 2) public ignorance. When they run up against someone who has a bit more knowledge than the average bear, it confounds they a little and they get defensive-quickly-turned-to-offensive. They are not wont to back down or admit they are in error... which makes they look harder for something to get their target detained or arrested.

I once had an off duty police officer (there were two of them together) pull his badge on me when we were in a gun shop. I was looking at holsters and asked the salesman if I could try my gun in one of them. He said I could so I pulled out my gun, unloaded it, showed him its state and that's when the officer pulled his badge (Fairfax County). He asked, "I assume you have a permit for that" to which I responded that I did and would he like to see it. He replied, "no" and all four of us had some pleasant conversation for the next few minutes. As I was getting ready to leave, the officer said, "You might want to reload that" to which I replied that I would do it in my car since gun shops tend not to like someone doing that in their store. This took place in late summer of 1995.

I've learned a lot since then and it is highly unlikely I would ever pull out my firearm and unload it in a place of business. If there was something in the shop I wanted to see which required my gun, I would unload it first in my car, put it in some sort of container, then take it in and ask someone before doing anything. Otherwise it stays in my holster.
 
Last edited:

Daylen

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Messages
2,223
Location
America
It's always going to be a 'you can beat the rap but not the ride' situation. A LEO can attempt to arrest you at any time, right or wrong and then you have the option to fight it.

Depends on the circumstances and what a person is willing to do to protect their liberty. Unlawful arrest is criminal activity.
 

rushcreek2

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2010
Messages
909
Location
Colorado Springs. CO
The fact that the badge flasher with his child in-tow decided to initiate a non-response generated confrontation with an orderly citizen simply because he was wearing a holstered firearm -without a prior request for uniformed back-up assistance - indicates the absence of any perception of the presence of a threat on his part. In other words - this was a "personal matter" and not the exercise of official authority.

This "LEO" should be scheduled for immediate remedial procedural training in order to ensure that such behavior does not further escalate. He should also have a record of this incident placed in his file. He irresponsibly placed himself, his child, WM staff, the OP, and the general public in danger resulting from the needless encounter and handling of a loaded firearm.
 

SFCRetired

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
1,764
Location
Montgomery, Alabama, USA
Questions born of ignorance: Would you even be required to respond to such an individual (off-duty, civilian clothing, child in tow)?

What would be the most likely outcome if you just gave him/her the "What? Are you stupid?" look and walked away?

I know that it would most probably vary from state to state, but just what authority, if any, does such an off-duty LEO have in the absence of criminal activity or even RAS?

I would also have to see more identification than just a badge flashed at me. There are too many realistic-looking fake badges out there for me to rely on just that. (remind me to tell y'all of the time I flashed a badge at an Army CID agent:D)
 

PistolPackingMomma

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2011
Messages
1,884
Location
SC
Questions born of ignorance: Would you even be required to respond to such an individual (off-duty, civilian clothing, child in tow)?

What would be the most likely outcome if you just gave him/her the "What? Are you stupid?" look and walked away?

I know that it would most probably vary from state to state, but just what authority, if any, does such an off-duty LEO have in the absence of criminal activity or even RAS?

I would also have to see more identification than just a badge flashed at me. There are too many realistic-looking fake badges out there for me to rely on just that. (remind me to tell y'all of the time I flashed a badge at an Army CID agent:D)

I would like to know the answer to this too.

And I'm reminding you :lol: What's the story?
 

DocWalker

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
1,922
Location
Mountain Home, Idaho, USA
Questions born of ignorance: Would you even be required to respond to such an individual (off-duty, civilian clothing, child in tow)?

What would be the most likely outcome if you just gave him/her the "What? Are you stupid?" look and walked away?

I know that it would most probably vary from state to state, but just what authority, if any, does such an off-duty LEO have in the absence of criminal activity or even RAS?

I would also have to see more identification than just a badge flashed at me. There are too many realistic-looking fake badges out there for me to rely on just that. (remind me to tell y'all of the time I flashed a badge at an Army CID agent:D)

Well if you walk your dogs (off-leash) in a certain Kalifornia park you will get tased in the back if you walk away.....lol
 

The Big Guy

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
1,966
Location
Waco, TX
I would not only file a complaint with his department, but I would also talk to someone higher up at Wally World to make them aware that the officers actions put other people in the store at risk by having you disarm yourself. He obviously was not affraid of you or he never would have had you touch your firearm. If they could be persuaded, a call from the management to the sheriff would hold much more weight than just your word.

Good luck.

TBG
 

ncwabbit

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2011
Messages
670
Location
rural religious usa
sfcretired...

ok, i've grabbed a brew, sat down in my bestest comfortable chair, and am awaiting a good CID story w/all the juicy details...and i will trade my 'OSI' encounters w/you in return...

wabbit
 

MITCH

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2006
Messages
111
Location
, Arizona, USA
Stopped by off duty

sfcretired...

ok, i've grabbed a brew, sat down in my bestest comfortable chair, and am awaiting a good CID story w/all the juicy details...and i will trade my 'OSI' encounters w/you in return...

wabbit

As a former Army Criminal Investigator, I also would be interested in hering the outcome of your encounter !
 

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
DocWalker said:
Dam, my wife shoots as good as me.
I WOULDN'T DARE HIT HER SHE WOULD SHOOT ME.
Armed people are very polite to each other.
I've found that unarmed people are generally polite to armed people too.

DocWalker said:
Well if you walk your dogs (off-leash) in a certain Kalifornia park you will get tased in the back if you walk away.
Because that's such a dangerous activity that the officers felt threatened, right?
:mad:
 

DocWalker

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
1,922
Location
Mountain Home, Idaho, USA
Armed people are very polite to each other.
I've found that unarmed people are generally polite to armed people too.


Because that's such a dangerous activity that the officers felt threatened, right?
:mad:

I do believe the story said they were the breed feared more than the pitbull.....they said they were the dreaded "CHUWAWA" breed. I can certianly understand where tasing the owner is warrented to show the blood thirsty yappers who is boss.
 
Top