Security pulled gun on me tonight.

Jonathan Hoff · Sep 3, 2012

in need of some advice.

I went to pick a friend up from a party, i met her near the outside of the event when two security officer approched me and shined there lights in my face, i kindly asked them to lower there lights, they told me to shut up, then i guess they saw my pistols that i was legaly carrying. they then told me to face them and not at the side. they then asked me why i had a gun on me, then told me to get the **** off there property, i told them thats fine as we were leaving anyways, they followed me to my truck and when we began to back out they blocked us in with a car and the security guy pulled his pistol out and drew on me. i then stoped my truck and begann to record them with my cell phone.

but long story short i was leaving when they blocked me and the girl i was with in, and pulled there weapons on me.

5 squad cars later showed up since they called the cops on me . I was then illegaly detained and handcuffed and my two pistols were illegaly taken from me as well. now i dont care to mess with the cops since they basicaly filed a report in which the security guards were listed as the suspects and i was listed as a victim.

i want to push for charges on the security team, there company and the establishment that hired them for unlawfully brandishing a weapon and threating to kill us.

I never once reached for any of my firearms or threatened them in any way.

Wolfstanus · Sep 3, 2012

Get some sleep.
Legal action and or press charges?

I don't really enjoy saying things that will cause people to lose their job in this economy but when you goof yo dun goofed.

hammer6 · Sep 3, 2012

Jonathan Hoff said:
hey guys havnet been posting on this site as much as i should be but tonight im in need of some advice.

im not going to discuss this to much on here since im not sure if i should but the basic of it goes as this.

I went to pick a friend up from a party, i met her near the outside of the event when two security officer approched me and shined there lights in my face, i kindly asked them to lower there lights, they told me to shut up, then i guess they saw my pistols that i was legaly carrying. they then told me to face them and not at the side. they then asked me why i had a gun on me, then told me to get the **** off there property, i told them thats fine as we were leaving anyways, they followed me to my truck and when we began to back out they blocked us in with a car and the security guy with pink handcuffs pulled his pistol out and drew on me. i then stoped my truck and begann to record them with my cell phone.

im not sure if i should go into greater detail on here but long story short i was leaving when they blocked me and the girl i was with in, and pulled there weapons on me.

5 squad cars later showed up since they called the cops on me . I was then illegaly detained and handcuffed and my two pistols were illegaly taken from me as well. now i dont care to mess with the cops since they basicaly filed a report in which the security guards we listed as the suspects and i was listed as a victim.

please some one help me i want to push for charges on the security team, there company and the establishment that hired them for unlawfully brandishing a weapon and threating to kill us.

I never once reached for any of my firearms or threatened them in any way.

I need some help im a Marine Vet and dont think i deserve to come back to the US to have some trigger happy rentacop with pink handcuffs pull a handgun on me. not only putting my life at risk but also my friend

here was what i was wearing... just got the 1911 fixed today to, sad thing i almost had to use it View attachment 9184

sounds like you remained pretty calm...write everything down, then go sleep for like 10 hours. then write it down again and get a lawyer. i hope you press charges.

Deserteagle8338 · Sep 3, 2012

Sounds like these goons had the drop on you, but if a person who is not a police officer pulls a gun on you, you can shoot them. Security has as much authority as you do. Sounds like a bunch of losers to me. Try to get them charged with menacing and file a civil suit against them.

acmariner99 · Sep 3, 2012

Thank you for your service. Sorry this happened to you.

My advice is to not talk to us ... talk to a lawyer

Jonathan Hoff · Sep 3, 2012

i will believe me im not going to stand around while a rentacop with pink handcuffs pulls a gun on me.

i would have shot him but i was ohonestly afraid for my friends safty thous retards would have probly hit her in the process and that would just devistate me. besides that i was boxed in and covered by 3 guys and 1 lady, on 3 sides that was before the police and all 9 other cops decided to grace us with there oh so friendly actions... but i want the secutity not the cops, they seemed to be on my side after they took there guns out of my face.

i got an assult rifle pointed at my head while the guys who pulled there guns stood to the side laughing it up.

PistolPackingMomma · Sep 3, 2012

Jonathan Hoff said:
hey guys havnet been posting on this site as much as i should be but tonight im in need of some advice.

You should seek legal counsel for advice.

I went to pick a friend up from a party, i met her near the outside of the event when two security officer approched me and shined there lights in my face

Why would security guards approach you?

then told me to get the **** off there property, i told them thats fine as we were leaving anyways, they followed me to my truck and when we began to back out they blocked us in with a car

They told you to leave, then blocked you in so you couldn't?

and the security guy with pink handcuffs pulled his pistol out and drew on me.

Why is the color of his cuffs so significant? Why did he draw on you? Was he issuing any verbal commands?

i then stoped my truck and begann to record them with my cell phone.

Consult a lawyer before posting video evidence, but if you have no plans to pursue this, then sharing your video with us might lend some...credibility...to your story.

im not sure if i should go into greater detail on here but long story short i was leaving when they blocked me and the girl i was with in, and pulled there weapons on me.

Were there any other factors in play besides your firearm?

5 squad cars later showed up since they called the cops on me .

How much later?

I was then illegaly detained and handcuffed and my two pistols were illegaly taken from me as well.

By the cops or security guard? Did they articulate RAS/PC for your detainment/seizure?

now i dont care to mess with the cops since they basicaly filed a report in which the security guards we listed as the suspects and i was listed as a victim.

You already have a copy of the report? Please post it.

please some one help me i want to push for charges on the security team, there company and the establishment that hired them for unlawfully brandishing a weapon and threating to kill us.

They threatened to kill you? Verbally? When?

I never once reached for any of my firearms or threatened them in any way.

That's good.

I need some help im a Marine Vet and dont think i deserve to come back to the US to have some trigger happy rentacop with pink handcuffs pull a handgun on me. not only putting my life at risk but also my friend

No one deserves that. And if it went down as you say it did, and you have a recording to back up your side of the story, then you should have a pretty strong case.

Jonathan Hoff said:
i will believe me im not going to stand around while a rentacop with pink handcuffs pulls a gun on me.

I'm curious as to why the color of his cuffs are relevant, and how, if he had a gun pointed at your head, you even noticed them.

i would have shot him

Umm...:uhoh:

but i was ohonestly afraid for my friends safty thous retards would have probly hit her in the process and that would just devistate me. besides that i was boxed in and covered by 3 guys and 1 lady, on 3 sides that was before the police and all 9 other cops decided to grace us with there oh so friendly actions...

Earlier you said 5 squad cars showed up. How many police were on the scene, and why did so many respond?

but i want the secutity not the cops, they seemed to be on my side after they took there guns out of my face.

What actions did the police take to establish what was going on in this situation?

i got an assult rifle pointed at my head while the guys who pulled there guns stood to the side laughing it up.

Not even going to mention what's wrong with the first half of this sentence, but I do want to know who was laughing it up? The cops? The security guards? Who pointed the rifle? The cops? The security guards?

davidmcbeth · Sep 3, 2012

Criminal charges? Ain't gonna ever happen ...

Civil -- you bring these counts to a court's attention. Go ahead and file if you wish...

MKEgal · Sep 3, 2012

If things happened as stated, those private security guards have gotten their company in a whole lot of expensive trouble, & themselves into a few years in prison.
Depending on the information (probably lies) given to the calltaker for the PD, it's quite possible the cops overreacted as well.
That's been known to happen...

I've just posted this in another thread about someone being harassed by an off-duty (but uniformed) officer.
Have a look at this page of my OCDO blog.
There are links on that page so you can read these statutes, but they're the 3 most applicable federal civil rights laws related to 2A advocates being harassed.

42USC1983, titled Civil action for deprivation of rights
This requires the action be "under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage", so is generally applied to officers behaving badly.

42USC1985 is Conspiracy to interfere with civil rights
That requires "two or more persons" agreeing to act against you, and at least one of them actually doing something. Obviously the guards did this. Possible that the police did too, since they saw you doing nothing illegal & messed with you anyway.

Those 2 are civil actions - you can bring a federal civil rights suit against the person or people harassing you

18USC241 Conspiracy against rights, however, is a felony & is applicable to anyone.

If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in any State ... in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same
...
They shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both;
and ... if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap... they shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.

Colorado Revised Statutes
http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/colorado/

C.R.S. 18-3-206 Menacing

(1) A person commits the crime of menacing if, by any threat or physical action, he or she knowingly places or attempts to place another person in fear of imminent serious bodily injury.
Menacing ... is a class 5 felony if committed:
(a) By the use of a deadly weapon

C.R.S. 18-3-208 Reckless endangerment

A person who recklessly engages in conduct which creates a substantial risk of serious bodily injury to another person commits reckless endangerment, which is a class 3 misdemeanor.

C.R.S. 18-3-301 First degree kidnapping

(1) Any person who does any of the following acts with the intent thereby to force the victim or any other person to make any concession ... in order to secure a release of a person under the offender's actual or apparent control commits first degree kidnapping:
(b) Entices or persuades any person to go from one place to another; or
(c) Imprisons or forcibly secretes any person.
...
(3) Whoever commits first degree kidnapping commits a class 2 felony if, prior to his conviction, the person kidnapped was liberated unharmed.

C.R.S. 18-3-303 False imprisonment

(1) Any person who knowingly confines or detains another without the other's consent and without proper legal authority commits false imprisonment.
...
(2) False imprisonment is a class 2 misdemeanor

C.R.S. 18-8-111 False reporting to authorities

(1) A person commits false reporting to authorities, if:
(a) He or she knowingly:
. . . . . (I) Causes by any means.. a false alarm of fire or other emergency ... to be transmitted to ... law enforcement agency...; or

(b) He makes a report or knowingly causes the transmission of a report to law enforcement authorities of a crime or other incident within their official concern when he knows that it did not occur; or

(c) He or she makes a report or knowingly causes the transmission of a report to law enforcement authorities pretending to furnish information relating to an offense or other incident within their official concern when he or she knows that he or she has no such information or knows that the information is false...
(2) False reporting to authorities is a class 3 misdemeanor

C.R.S. 18-12-106 Prohibited use of weapons

(1) A person commits a class 2 misdemeanor if:
(a) He knowingly and unlawfully aims a firearm at another person

That's 4 misdemeanors & 2 felonies. (3 & 2 for the guard who did not call police.)
Surely there's an honest prosecutor willing to get violent criminals off the streets?

Out of curiosity, what sort of party / neighborhood / crowd was this that needed armed guards?

Jonathan Hoff · Sep 3, 2012

Why would security guards approach you?

They approched us as i walked toward the front of the building to pick up our friend, we were still in the parking lot when they made contact. there were shining and strobing there flashlights moments after we got out of our truck and continued to shine them on us as we walked closer toward the event

They told you to leave, then blocked you in so you couldn't?

yes as we were backing up when they stepped in front of our truck and pulled out his weapon, then his other security guard pulled a car up to our side so that we couldnt get out of the area, they then called the cops and from what i was told said we would leave and thats why there calling to report us, yet we couldnt leave do to the fact that we were blocked in and they were also surrounding our truck on about 3 sides

Why is the color of his cuffs so significant? Why did he draw on you? Was he issuing any verbal commands?

the color of the cuffs was important because it was one of the key items i saw when he approched us and helped me identify who had the gun and who pulled it out on us, other then thats there no reason i just dont have his name at this time. from what police told me he puled his weapon on us because it made him un easy that i had a weapon on me and no there were never any verbal comands given at the point only eiler when he told us to get the **** off the property. the only commands at gunpoint that were made we by the police officers.

Consult a lawyer before posting video evidence, but if you have no plans to pursue this, then sharing your video with us might lend some...credibility...to your story.

i have consulted a lawyer, and my story is true, your here to help not accuse me of lieing.

Were there any other factors in play besides your firearm?

they told police he could tell i was a marine from how i presented my self and my hat i guess that combined with me having a weapon made him feel uncomfortable, whice is stil no reason to pull a gun on me. and he didnt pull it out untill we were in the truck which at that point i was in private property so me having weapons in there was once again legal as the cops said

How much later?

the cops told me to place my hands outside the window and open the door from the outside, apon exciting the truck i was told to turn around and slowly walk backwards toward his voice, once i got close to the officer he placed handcuff on me and told me i was under arrest, he then asked if my weapons were loaded and then removed my 1911 from my serpa holster then removed my bodyguard 380 from my leg rig, i was then walked back to a police car and read my rights. althought he didnt finish them he kept asking me if i understood that after a few lines that he read from his little business card he took out of his wallet.

By the cops or security guard? Did they articulate RAS/PC for your detainment/seizure?

i was arrested and detained by the police i would have let the security guards handcuff me, im not sure was RAS/PC means? but they just handcuffed me and removed my firearms and never said why.

You already have a copy of the report? Please post it.

i dont have a copy yet but i have contacted the officer and a copy will be emailed to me

They threatened to kill you? Verbally? When?
after i rolled down my window and told him to re holster his firearm. he then told me **** you i dont have to, and said he would kill us

I'm curious as to why the color of his cuffs are relevant, and how, if he had a gun pointed at your head, you even noticed them.

i noticed the color of his handcuff from his first contact he made with us and i turned on my brights when they blocked us in so i could have a better view at what they were atempting to do

Earlier you said 5 squad cars showed up. How many police were on the scene, and why did so many respond?
id say there was at least 9 cops total i know two had pistols drawn on me and one had his assult riffle drawn on me as you can see in the video

What actions did the police take to establish what was going on in this situation?
the handcuffed me and treated me like the victim untill i began to talk to them and explane what was going on and relising that it wasnt me who caused the problem it was the actions of the securitystaff and the fact that they called in because we wouldnt leave the property yet they had blocked my truck in making it imposssible for us to leave and the police noticed that as well

Not even going to mention what's wrong with the first half of this sentence, but I do want to know who was laughing it up? The cops? The security guards? Who pointed the rifle? The cops? The security guards?[/QUOTE]

it was the security guards who were laughing it up they stood off to the side with there weapons still while i had mine taken away and was arrested, they did nothing to them while i was in the area then then moved me away from them to a patrol car maybe 100 feet from them

hope that helps clear up some stuff and sorry if it was hard to read or funny to u but it wasnt very funny to me to have some one pull a weapon on me and my friend and it was written at like 23o am i was trired but wanted to post as soon as possible.

the police did return my firearms to me in a plastic bag and we were let go after about 25 min roughly from the point when it started

Jonathan Hoff · Sep 3, 2012

Out of curiosity, what sort of party / neighborhood / crowd was this that needed armed guards?

[/QUOTE]

it was a labor day dubstep music show, as i said i wasnt attending i was simply picking a friend up from the even because her ride bailed on her.

this is the location of the event Copper Fileds 4901 Marshall St. Wheat Ridge, CO 80033

it seemed pretty trashy from what i saw althou when you look up the event it seems nice on the site as it appears they do wedding parties and such

thebigsd · Sep 3, 2012

Not that I have a problem with them but what's up with the AR mags? Are you plannin to post a copy of the police report to corroborate your story?

Jonathan Hoff · Sep 3, 2012

thebigsd said:
Not that I have a problem with them but what's up with the AR mags? Are you plannin to post a copy of the police report to corroborate your story?

that was a picture i took from earlyer in the day i was wearing the exact same thing minus the ar mags. i had the pouches on the drop pouch but not the mags. i tend to take pics of how i do my setups just for personal use

and yes as soon as i get a copy for the poloce officer then i will but seeing as how its a national holiday not much effort is being put into it today on there part so hopefully tomorrow sometime ill have a report to post so that you guys can read if it so pleases u

PistolPackingMomma · Sep 3, 2012

Jonathan Hoff said:
They approched us as i walked toward the front of the building to pick up our friend, we were still in the parking lot when they made contact. there were shining and strobing there flashlights moments after we got out of our truck and continued to shine them on us as we walked closer toward the event

This doesn't explain why they chose to approach you, but I realize that their reasons may not have been shared with you.

yes as we were backing up when they stepped in front of our truck and pulled out his weapon, then his other security guard pulled a car up to our side so that we couldnt get out of the area, they then called the cops and from what i was told said we would leave and thats why there calling to report us, yet we couldnt leave do to the fact that we were blocked in and they were also surrounding our truck on about 3 sides

Did they first approach your vehicle, or block it in?

the color of the cuffs was important because it was one of the key items i saw when he approched us and helped me identify who had the gun and who pulled it out on us, other then thats there no reason i just dont have his name at this time. from what police told me he puled his weapon on us because it made him un easy that i had a weapon on me and no there were never any verbal comands given at the point only eiler when he told us to get the **** off the property. the only commands at gunpoint that were made we by the police officers.

He told you to get off the property, but blocked you in so you couldn't do so?

i have consulted a lawyer, and my story is true, your here to help not accuse me of lieing.

I am not here to help, until the facts are established. Once they are, then I'll repeat the same advice I've already mentioned. Lawyer up, and shut up. I also did not accuse you of lying. I simply said it would add credibility to your story.

they told police he could tell i was a marine from how i presented my self and my hat i guess that combined with me having a weapon made him feel uncomfortable, whice is stil no reason to pull a gun on me. and he didnt pull it out untill we were in the truck which at that point i was in private property so me having weapons in there was once again legal as the cops said

So he drew a gun on a man he knew was an armed Marine, who was leaving the property, was told to leave the property, and then prevented you from doing so and threatened to kill you? If you have this on video, you'll have a very good case.

the cops told me to place my hands outside the window and open the door from the outside, apon exciting the truck i was told to turn around and slowly walk backwards toward his voice, once i got close to the officer he placed handcuff on me and told me i was under arrest, he then asked if my weapons were loaded and then removed my 1911 from my serpa holster then removed my bodyguard 380 from my leg rig, i was then walked back to a police car and read my rights. althought he didnt finish them he kept asking me if i understood that after a few lines that he read from his little business card he took out of his wallet.

Were you recording at this time as well?

i was arrested and detained by the police i would have let the security guards handcuff me, im not sure was RAS/PC means? but they just handcuffed me and removed my firearms and never said why.

RAS= Reasonable Articulable Suspicion. PC= Probable Cause.

i dont have a copy yet but i have contacted the officer and a copy will be emailed to me

If you don't have a copy of the report, then how do you know what the report says?

after i rolled down my window and told him to re holster his firearm. he then told me **** you i dont have to, and said he would kill us

He said, "I'll kill you." ? In so many words?

i noticed the color of his handcuff from his first contact he made with us and i turned on my brights when they blocked us in so i could have a better view at what they were atempting to do

Okay.

id say there was at least 9 cops total i know two had pistols drawn on me and one had his assult riffle drawn on me as you can see in the video

I can't see, because you have not shared it, and I would not recommend you do so without the advice of your attorney first.

the handcuffed me and treated me like the victim untill i began to talk to them and explane what was going on and relising that it wasnt me who caused the problem it was the actions of the securitystaff and the fact that they called in because we wouldnt leave the property yet they had blocked my truck in making it imposssible for us to leave and the police noticed that as well

Does the venue this took place at have outdoor security cameras to help your side of the story?

it was the security guards who were laughing it up they stood off to the side with there weapons still while i had mine taken away and was arrested, they did nothing to them while i was in the area then then moved me away from them to a patrol car maybe 100 feet from them

Was your lady friend detained/arrested as well, or left in your vehicle with this still armed security guards around?

hope that helps clear up some stuff and sorry if it was hard to read or funny to u but it wasnt very funny to me to have some one pull a weapon on me and my friend and it was written at like 23o am i was trired but wanted to post as soon as possible.

the police did return my firearms to me in a plastic bag and we were let go after about 25 min roughly from the point when it started

I do not think this incident was funny in the slightest, and nothing in my reply has indicated so. I merely want to determine the facts before diving head first into it one way or the other. Do you think I shouldn't ask questions in order to better understand a situation that I was not a part of?

Jonathan Hoff · Sep 3, 2012

PistolPackingMomma said:
This doesn't explain why they chose to approach you, but I realize that their reasons may not have been shared with you.
to be honest im not sure why they chose to aproch us but they began to do as soon as we bagan walking in there direction after leaving our truck

Did they first approach your vehicle, or block it in?

they first aproched us then he got on his readio and a few few min later the car was pulled into the exit blocking us

He told you to get off the property, but blocked you in so you couldn't do so?

yes enen the police said that was stupid of them because if they hadnt of blocked us in we would have just left and that would have been the end of the story

RAS= Reasonable Articulable Suspicion. PC= Probable Cause.
to my knowledge they didnt have anyreason to arrest me or take my firearms

If you don't have a copy of the report, then how do you know what the report says?
because i got to write my statement down and they talked to me about what the report contained, once i get the full report ill share it with you guys

Does the venue this took place at have outdoor security cameras to help your side of the story?

im not sure as of yet as the venue has not contacted me about this issue

Was your lady friend detained/arrested as well, or left in your vehicle with this still armed security guards around?
she was arrested and detained as well after they had disarmed me and walked me to the patrol car

CO-Joe · Sep 4, 2012

Jonathan, I advise you rework the second sentence in post #6 to be less, well, you know. If something comes of this one way or another, you should know anything you say in a public forum could very well come back to hurt your case later, and I guarantee some lawyers could make Mother Teresa sound like an evildoer.

Also, if you do plan on taking legal action, I can't stress strongly enough that it would behoove you to limit your posting; If all of this did happen as you say it did, you have no obligation to convince the internet. Document what happened as best you can and zip the lip for now.

carolina guy · Sep 4, 2012

if this is all true...I would delete all your posts until you clear them with your attorney.

Saxxon · Sep 5, 2012

I'll PM you info

Too many trolls that don't know the laws here injecting speculation based on their own locality to parse this.

Saxxon · Sep 5, 2012

davidmcbeth said:
Criminal charges? Ain't gonna ever happen ...

Civil -- you bring these counts to a court's attention. Go ahead and file if you wish...

Thats not necessarily true. Depends on who you retain as a lawyer and how aggressively they pursue it. From his description he may well have a criminal case against them. Its about impossible as a citizen to press, but an attorney will know how to get it done. All comes down to $$ you have and whats recoverable from the parties.

Gunslinger · Sep 5, 2012

Pointing a deadly weapon at you without due cause is aggravated assault, a felony. Blocking your egress is false arrest. Speak to a lawyer about filing criminal charges and filing a civil suit against them and their employers. If things happened as you related, you have a very strong case, both criminal and civil.

Security pulled gun on me tonight.

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