Belt buckle pistols

2sawn_tony · Nov 5, 2012

Hello, I am new to this forum. The knowledge and experiences shared by members are very enlightening and educational! I would like to solicit answers/opinions on whether the wearing of "belt buckle guns" such as NORTH AMERICAN NAA22 WITH BELT BUCKLE constitutes 'concealed' or 'open carry' usage.

Also, any feedback from current or past owners on the effectiveness/value of such weapons would be welcomed.

EMNofSeattle · Nov 5, 2012

2sawn_tony said:
Hello, I am new to this forum. The knowledge and experiences shared by members are very enlightening and educational! I would like to solicit answers/opinions on whether the wearing of "belt buckle guns" such as NORTH AMERICAN NAA22 WITH BELT BUCKLE constitutes 'concealed' or 'open carry' usage.

Also, any feedback from current or past owners on the effectiveness/value of such weapons would be welcomed.

Well that sounds like it would meet the legal criteria of an AOW under federal law which means you must obtain a tax stamp for your belt buckle pistol first.

2sawn_tony · Nov 5, 2012

I think you're right...AOW!

2sawn_tony said:
Hello, I am new to this forum. The knowledge and experiences shared by members are very enlightening and educational! I would like to solicit answers/opinions on whether the wearing of "belt buckle guns" such as NORTH AMERICAN NAA22 WITH BELT BUCKLE constitutes 'concealed' or 'open carry' usage.

Also, any feedback from current or past owners on the effectiveness/value of such weapons would be welcomed.

Thank you!! Like I said, members like yourself offer a wealth of knowledge! I was unfamiliar with the "AOW" classification. However, after researching that on the ATF website, I must agree with you. Thank you for your input.

Citizen · Nov 5, 2012

2sawn_tony said:
Hello, I am new to this forum. The knowledge and experiences shared by members are very enlightening and educational! I would like to solicit answers/opinions on whether the wearing of "belt buckle guns" such as NORTH AMERICAN NAA22 WITH BELT BUCKLE constitutes 'concealed' or 'open carry' usage.

Also, any feedback from current or past owners on the effectiveness/value of such weapons would be welcomed.

This has come up before. I think it will depend on the law in your state.

For example, in VA our concealed weapons statute includes language about weapons that are open to view but are deceptive in appearance so you wouldn't immediately think it was a weapon. Other states may have similar.

1245A Defender · Nov 5, 2012

Well,,,

EMNofSeattle said:
Well that sounds like it would meet the legal criteria of an AOW under federal law which means you must obtain a tax stamp for your belt buckle pistol first.

This is pretty much true,,, because, the tiny gun in question, built into a belt buckle,
Looks like it, "and has been ruled in court" that it may be, just a pretty design. Not easily desernable as a "fire arm"..

If you are going to do it,,, do it right!!!
notice,, my belt "buckle" is offset on my left hip,
the gun is in a machine holder!

skidmark · Nov 5, 2012

What did those poor grips do to you to deserve the treatment you gave them?!? If it's not an 8th Amendment violation it is as close as one could come to the line without crossing it.

"What's the difference between custom gunsmithing and a Bubba'd job?"
"The size of the nut behind the Dremel."

For the OP - AOW paperwork is $5 and does not need signing off by the CLEO. Just remember to bring a laminated copy of your paperwork with you to show the cops who are probably going to want to ask you all sorts of questions while telling you it is illegal.

stay safe.

WalkingWolf · Nov 5, 2012

In NC belt buckle pistols are considered concealed, but full flap holsters are not, or so I was told by the Harnett magistrate. Fixed blade buckle knives are considered concealed also here. Though it would take a good search to realize there was a knife in the belt.

IMO the belt buckle gun is not concealed, but my opinion does not count.

WalkingWolf · Nov 5, 2012

1245A Defender said:

Wow that gun is browned! Treat it with a thin coat of linseed oil over the brown, it will look more plum then.

davidmcbeth · Nov 5, 2012

WalkingWolf said:
In NC belt buckle pistols are considered concealed, but full flap holsters are not, or so I was told by the Harnett magistrate. Fixed blade buckle knives are considered concealed also here. Though it would take a good search to realize there was a knife in the belt.

IMO the belt buckle gun is not concealed, but my opinion does not count.

Word of warning: I would not trust what a magistrate says .... just sayin

Keep the Faith!

Citizen · Nov 5, 2012

WalkingWolf said:
Wow that gun is browned! Treat it with a thin coat of linseed oil over the brown, it will look more plum then.

Only one of those fabric groin holsters comes closer to compensating.

WalkingWolf · Nov 5, 2012

davidmcbeth said:
Word of warning: I would not trust what a magistrate says .... just sayin

Keep the Faith!

Here the magistrate decides whether you are going to jail or not. Can't lock anyone up without getting past her.

Citizen · Nov 5, 2012

WalkingWolf said:
Here the magistrate decides whether you are going to jail or not. Can't lock anyone up without getting past her.

This point is valid as far as it goes. You just have to be sure to be in that jurisdiction when that magistrate is on duty.

Being arrested somewhere else in the state or when a different magistrate is on duty may yield different results.

I vaguely recall a situation where some OCers, at a restaurant in a state where restaurant OC was perfectly legal, were investigated by some cops. The cops even called the magistrate, who told them to arrest the OCers. It was another cop who explained the law to the confused cops and dissuaded them from arresting the OCers. I know that is a little different from what is being discussed, but my point is that even magistrates can get it wrong.

WalkingWolf · Nov 5, 2012

Citizen said:
This point is valid as far as it goes. You just have to be sure to be in that jurisdiction when that magistrate is on duty.

Being arrested somewhere else in the state or when a different magistrate is on duty may yield different results.

I vaguely recall a situation where some OCers, at a restaurant in a state where restaurant OC was perfectly legal, were investigated by some cops. The cops even called the magistrate, who told them to arrest the OCers. It was another cop who explained the law to the confused cops and dissuaded them from arresting the OCers. I know that is a little different from what is being discussed, but my point is that even magistrates can get it wrong.

Everybody can get it wrong, even judges, that is why we have higher court judges, who also occasionally get it wrong. I have discussed it with the sheriff, a couple magistrates, each one a different county. I am confident I will not have a affidavit signed on their word. NOW that does not mean I might get hassled anyway. Hell I was told you urinating in the bushes on the highway was an offense, supposedly a $500 fine. All a person can do is attempt to find a seemingly legit opinion, if it is not spelled out in law. Or hide in the house the rest of their life.

MAC702 · Nov 5, 2012

EMNofSeattle said:
Well that sounds like it would meet the legal criteria of an AOW under federal law which means you must obtain a tax stamp for your belt buckle pistol first.

Wouldn't it only be an AOW if it was capable of being fired while attached to the buckle? If the buckle is just a holster, I don't think it would be an AOW.

As for being concealed, that would depend on state laws, yes. I've not heard of it being considered concealed in my state, and our definition is "not discernible by ordinary observation."

EMNofSeattle · Nov 5, 2012

MAC702 said:
Wouldn't it only be an AOW if it was capable of being fired while attached to the buckle? If the buckle is just a holster, I don't think it would be an AOW.

As for being concealed, that would depend on state laws, yes. I've not heard of it being considered concealed in my state, and our definition is "not discernible by ordinary observation."

well if the belt buckle IS the gun like this then yes. if it's just a holder like 1245A defender posted then it's not an AOW

skidmark · Nov 5, 2012

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/guides/importation-verification/firearms-verification-nfa-aow.html BAFTEIEIO and sometines Y defines AOW with pictures of examples.

Then there are the various states' definitions of "concealed weapon/handgun" that include some stuff that is out in plain sight but someone considers it deceptive in appearance.

If you don't know how to look up statutes and find case law that interprets it, you need to take a course on doing so. The first, without te second, is downright dangerous because the courts often have ruled that water is in fact dry and the sun does not shine at noon.

stay safe.

MAC702 · Nov 5, 2012

EMNofSeattle said:
well if the belt buckle IS the gun like this then yes. if it's just a holder like 1245A defender posted then it's not an AOW

That's the exact buckle I was remembering, too.

Belt buckle pistols

2sawn_tony

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