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New,Unsafe Protocall at Gibralter Trade in Mount Clemens(gun show?)!

Haman J.T.

New member
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
1,245
Location
, ,
I just returned from the gun show at the Gibralter Trade Center in Mount Clemens and must relay new gun Protocal!
OCing as I always do,once I walked up to the gun check station I was informed of the new rules.Instead of unloading my gun in the sand barrel as was required in prior gun shows,a security guy ordered me to give him my loaded gun,for him to unload,while it was explained to me that "No loaded guns,in chamber,with mag in,were to come through the door"!He said it was fine to carry in the center beyond the doors,but in oreder to walk through the doors I would have to return to outside or to my vehicle,unload my gun,re-enter the center,gun unloaded or unarmed to enter the gun show doors!When I asked if the management ordered this he said they(security) made this rule!When I left,the security cut the strap and told me I couldn't reload until I was out of the center! When I got in my truck I noticed a yellow piece of paper that was handed out at the parking booth,which states "Attention Customers,When bringing firearms into a GUN AND KNIFE SHOW,please follow these simple steps:1.Bring firearm in with no ammo in firearm(no exceptions).2.Have firearm inspected and safety-strapped by security at entrance.3.We will not allow firearms to be unloaded at door.They must be unloaded prior to entering the facility.There is simply no room for error in a show of this size.THIS POLICY IS FOR THE SAFETY OF ALL.
First, all a criminal or madman has to do to enter is "say no" when asked,at the door, if they have a gun!
Second,having not noticed the yellow piece of paper handed out at the parking booth,I was ordered to give my gun to a guy(stranger) with a security tee shirt,for him to unload My gun(load/unloading in a crowded place is unsafe no matter who does it.)!
Third, I think MOC Inc.,MGO,MCRGO,CLSD etc. should notify management, in a unified way,of the unsafe policy, and the SCOTUS ruling "that a holstered gun IS NOT DANGEROUS"! The safest thing that can be done at any gun show,is to allow Law Abiding Citizens to Keep Their Guns in The Holster,untouched and NOT DANGEROUS!

Thats My Safety Recommendation!Safe and Simple! I believe EVERYONE would be Polite as Always! CARRY ON!
 

Michigander

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
4,818
Location
Mulligan's Valley
Last time I was there, 3 years ago now, I would describe the way they treated us as arrogant and rude. Screw them. I won't be going back without a written apology from whoever runs those trashtastic shows, and yep, it'll be a cold day in hell when that happens.
 

Scooter123

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2008
Messages
63
Location
Macomb, Michigan, USA
You are seeing the results of those idiots who shot up those gun shows last month. Sad thing is that one of the idiots doing the shooting was reported to be a Police Officer who pulled the trigger on a shotgun he was "inspecting". Personally I would prefer that they not insist on those carrying for protection unloading their firearms because that does present a slight risk of a discharge. I'll also point out that they have always had those clearing barrels too high, it's safer to eject a loaded casing at waist height rather than chest height.

However the Trade Centers are private property so they can set the rules any way they want to. So you can choose to either comply with the new rules or just stay away. Since it's about the only place to find primers and other reloading components right now so I'll just unload in my vehicle before heading in.
 

Shadow Bear

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Dec 17, 2010
Messages
1,004
Location
Grand Rapids
Simple fix- don't give money to people who don't care about your rights as a human being.

If a show does not allow lawful carry, don't go. It's a Fuddapalooza; strictly for Fudds & loozas.

If asked to disarm, do a 180, and give your money to local dealers who support your human rights.

Simple fix.
 

Shadow Bear

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Dec 17, 2010
Messages
1,004
Location
Grand Rapids
You have a point! I believe Civil Disobedience could also be used if You have a mind to!(PC-PO statement)!

Is the property privately owned? Then it's not 'civil disobedience'- it's 'trespassing', illegal and a violation of the property owner's rights.

If it is public property, we need to mount legal action.

We don't trample others' rights to advance our own.
 

smellslikemichigan

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
2,307
Location
Troy, Michigan, USA
I just returned from the gun show at the Gibralter Trade Center in Mount Clemens and must relay new gun Protocal!
OCing as I always do,once I walked up to the gun check station I was informed of the new rules.Instead of unloading my gun in the sand barrel as was required in prior gun shows,a security guy ordered me to give him my loaded gun,for him to unload,while it was explained to me that "No loaded guns,in chamber,with mag in,were to come through the door"!He said it was fine to carry in the center beyond the doors,but in oreder to walk through the doors I would have to return to outside or to my vehicle,unload my gun,re-enter the center,gun unloaded or unarmed to enter the gun show doors!When I asked if the management ordered this he said they(security) made this rule!When I left,the security cut the strap and told me I couldn't reload until I was out of the center! When I got in my truck I noticed a yellow piece of paper that was handed out at the parking booth,which states "Attention Customers,When bringing firearms into a GUN AND KNIFE SHOW,please follow these simple steps:1.Bring firearm in with no ammo in firearm(no exceptions).2.Have firearm inspected and safety-strapped by security at entrance.3.We will not allow firearms to be unloaded at door.They must be unloaded prior to entering the facility.There is simply no room for error in a show of this size.THIS POLICY IS FOR THE SAFETY OF ALL.
First, all a criminal or madman has to do to enter is "say no" when asked,at the door, if they have a gun!
Second,having not noticed the yellow piece of paper handed out at the parking booth,I was ordered to give my gun to a guy(stranger) with a security tee shirt,for him to unload My gun(load/unloading in a crowded place is unsafe no matter who does it.)!
Third, I think MOC Inc.,MGO,MCRGO,CLSD etc. should notify management, in a unified way,of the unsafe policy, and the SCOTUS ruling "that a holstered gun IS NOT DANGEROUS"! The safest thing that can be done at any gun show,is to allow Law Abiding Citizens to Keep Their Guns in The Holster,untouched and NOT DANGEROUS!

Thats My Safety Recommendation!Safe and Simple! I believe EVERYONE would be Polite as Always! CARRY ON!
no such scotus ruling
 

DanM

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
1,928
Location
West Bloomfield, Michigan, USA
Third, I think MOC Inc.,MGO,MCRGO,CLSD etc. should notify management, in a unified way,of the unsafe policy

This is a good idea. Something like a "Joint Communications Committee" the MI gun orgs form between themselves, to draft and finalize certain kinds of repeatedly used messages which they all agree to endorse. There is more power to a message coming from all gun orgs, rather than one of them or separately from them.

I'm curious if MCRGO, MGO, or other MI gun orgs have discussed this good idea amongst themselves.
 

Evil Creamsicle

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2009
Messages
1,264
Location
Police State, USA
I just returned from the gun show at the Gibralter Trade Center in Mount Clemens and must relay new gun Protocal!
OCing as I always do,once I walked up to the gun check station I was informed of the new rules.Instead of unloading my gun in the sand barrel as was required in prior gun shows,a security guy ordered me to give him my loaded gun,for him to unload,while it was explained to me that "No loaded guns,in chamber,with mag in,were to come through the door"!He said it was fine to carry in the center beyond the doors,but in oreder to walk through the doors I would have to return to outside or to my vehicle,unload my gun,re-enter the center,gun unloaded or unarmed to enter the gun show doors!When I asked if the management ordered this he said they(security) made this rule!When I left,the security cut the strap and told me I couldn't reload until I was out of the center! When I got in my truck I noticed a yellow piece of paper that was handed out at the parking booth,which states "Attention Customers,When bringing firearms into a GUN AND KNIFE SHOW,please follow these simple steps:1.Bring firearm in with no ammo in firearm(no exceptions).2.Have firearm inspected and safety-strapped by security at entrance.3.We will not allow firearms to be unloaded at door.They must be unloaded prior to entering the facility.There is simply no room for error in a show of this size.THIS POLICY IS FOR THE SAFETY OF ALL.
First, all a criminal or madman has to do to enter is "say no" when asked,at the door, if they have a gun!
Second,having not noticed the yellow piece of paper handed out at the parking booth,I was ordered to give my gun to a guy(stranger) with a security tee shirt,for him to unload My gun(load/unloading in a crowded place is unsafe no matter who does it.)!
Third, I think MOC Inc.,MGO,MCRGO,CLSD etc. should notify management, in a unified way,of the unsafe policy, and the SCOTUS ruling "that a holstered gun IS NOT DANGEROUS"! The safest thing that can be done at any gun show,is to allow Law Abiding Citizens to Keep Their Guns in The Holster,untouched and NOT DANGEROUS!

Thats My Safety Recommendation!Safe and Simple! I believe EVERYONE would be Polite as Always! CARRY ON!

I would happily provide him a free inspection of my middle finger before walking briskly in the other direction. Nobody is touching my gun unless its my idea, period.
 

Raggs

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2012
Messages
1,181
Location
Wild Wild West Michigan
Why would CLSD send them a letter? They support the policy. They support it by renting a booth at the Gibraltar shows to sell their books. Can't bite the hand that feeds.

I have heard it suggested that MOC get booths at these fudapaloozas as well. Just because they have a booth does not mean they agree with the policy.
 

scot623

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2009
Messages
1,421
Location
Eastpointe, Michigan, USA
I have heard it suggested that MOC get booths at these fudapaloozas as well. Just because they have a booth does not mean they agree with the policy.

So CLSD giving them money by renting booths and going along with the policy isn't supporting it? What would you consider it?

MOC doesn't get a booth there for a reason.
 

Raggs

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2012
Messages
1,181
Location
Wild Wild West Michigan

scot623

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2009
Messages
1,421
Location
Eastpointe, Michigan, USA
Here the idea of MOC getting a table was asked http://forums.michiganopencarry.org/index.php/topic,2370.0.html the poll at the top says 85% would be for MOC getting a table. So obviously the idea isn't that far fetched is it?

I don't give two ***** about that poll or "how far fetched" the idea is. MOC has not ever had a table at an event where loaded open carry wasn't allowed. So why are you dragging MOC into that area of the discussion?? Why don't you answer the question I posed to you.

We always talk about "supporting" business's who support open carry. We also say we shouldn't support anti-OC business's. The support we talk about is money, whether to shop there or not.

So if a gun group pays for a table at an anti-OC show, they are supporting the policy. No?
 
Last edited:

Raggs

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2012
Messages
1,181
Location
Wild Wild West Michigan
So you are denying that MOC leadership has discussed getting a table at one of these gun shows? I am not dragging anything into anywhere.
"This topic came up during our leadership meeting this evening. The topic was droning on and there were impassioned opinions on each side. For the sake of getting on with the business of the meeting I asked people to take the discussion to the Forum. Well, here's the thread, discuss -- someone start!

Topic: Should we (Michigan Open Carry, Inc.) go to gun shows and get a table to promote our organization if said gun shows don't permit the lawful carry of a holstered, loaded handgun(open or concealed) without unloading the gun and zip tying the trigger or otherwise disabling the firearm?" as to the underlined part of your quote MOC at least considered it.

I don't give two ***** about that poll or "how far fetched" the idea is. MOC has not ever had a table at an event where loaded open carry wasn't allowed. So why are you dragging MOC into that area of the discussion?? Why don't you answer the question I posed to you.

We always talk about "supporting" business's who support open carry. We also say we shouldn't support anti-OC business's. The support we talk about is money, whether to shop there or not.

So if a gun group pays for a table at an anti-OC show, they are supporting the policy. No?
 
Last edited:

scot623

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2009
Messages
1,421
Location
Eastpointe, Michigan, USA
So you are denying that MOC leadership has discussed getting a table at one of these gun shows? I am not dragging anything into anywhere.
"This topic came up during our leadership meeting this evening. The topic was droning on and there were impassioned opinions on each side. For the sake of getting on with the business of the meeting I asked people to take the discussion to the Forum. Well, here's the thread, discuss -- someone start!

Topic: Should we (Michigan Open Carry, Inc.) go to gun shows and get a table to promote our organization if said gun shows don't permit the lawful carry of a holstered, loaded handgun(open or concealed) without unloading the gun and zip tying the trigger or otherwise disabling the firearm?"

Show me where I deny anything. I'll wait.

So now it's two posts by you since I asked you a simple question, and you've failed to answer it. Why?
 

Ezerharden

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2011
Messages
723
Location
Erie, MI
I don't give two ***** about that poll or "how far fetched" the idea is. MOC has not ever had a table at an event where loaded open carry wasn't allowed. So why are you dragging MOC into that area of the discussion?? Why don't you answer the question I posed to you.

We always talk about "supporting" business's who support open carry. We also say we shouldn't support anti-OC business's. The support we talk about is money, whether to shop there or not.

So if a gun group pays for a table at an anti-OC show, they are supporting the policy. No?

First, that poll was because I challenged the MOC leadership on the issue, so you want to kick someone, have at it. Second, at Gibralter in Taylor MOC can get a table for free provided we do not sell merchandise. Third, it is a great place to look for members and while at it we could disseminate information for how patrons could contact the promoter to pressure them to change their policy. After all by telling a business you will not support them with your money if they don't support your rights is what you state you already do. Tell me how that is working, one or two people a month doing that? Now what if we could get 50 to 100 people at every gun show the promoter puts on pushing to get rid of their policy?

Now let the flaming of me begin.
 
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