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Recent Seattle shooting. "We need more police"

gogodawgs

gogodawgs

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
5,669
Location
Federal Way, Washington, USA
Metalhead47 said:
So you don't consider a photo or video of the alleged offense to be "witness testimony" of a sort, that one is confronted with? \


(oy here we go again)
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It is not a 'witness' and your comment "of a sort" and the courts response has also agreed. It is why the law pertaining to red light/photo tickets are written the way they are. They are not 'criminal' but administrative in nature. However, continuing to use cameras in an expanding role will cause issues with amendment VI.
 
Metalhead47

Metalhead47

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Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
2,800
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South Whidbey, Washington, USA
gogodawgs said:
It is not a 'witness' and your comment "of a sort" and the courts response has also agreed. It is why the law pertaining to red light/photo tickets are written the way they are. They are not 'criminal' but administrative in nature. However, continuing to use cameras in an expanding role will cause issues with amendment VI.
Click to expand...

Ok, so then what's your solution? I don't mean that to be facetious, I honestly want to know. The rampantness of red light running, et al, demonstrates people's lack of responsibility to safely drive. How do you propose that be changed? I just don't see any other way to combat the threat, other than a motorcycle cop at every intersection. One cannot legislate responsibility, and one who does not want to learn cannot be taught.
 
gogodawgs

gogodawgs

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Messages
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Federal Way, Washington, USA
Metalhead47 said:
Ok, so then what's your solution? I don't mean that to be facetious, I honestly want to know. The rampantness of red light running, et al, demonstrates people's lack of responsibility to safely drive. How do you propose that be changed? I just don't see any other way to combat the threat, other than a motorcycle cop at every intersection. One cannot legislate responsibility, and one who does not want to learn cannot be taught.
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I do not think that $124 tickets for slowly rolling around a right hand turn is the correct fix. And that is a huge majority of the tickets assigned, NOT actual running of an intersection. I received one of these (I beat the ticket) and watched in court that morning a dozen similar videos. Every single person slowed significantly (less than 5mph) before making the turn. Some even stopped past the 'white line' and then turned.

When an collision occurs AND the red light was run (use camera's in this instance as one piece of evidence) THEN increase the penalties against the offender. Make the penalties harsher and more effective.
 
amlevin

amlevin

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Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
5,937
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North of Seattle, Washington, USA
Metalhead47 said:
Interesting... didn't know that, can you cite? Sounds similar to those DOT "incident response" trucks I see. Although, in this society a dedicated "technician" would probably cost just as much, if not more than a LEO. New gov't bureaucracy, new czar, new union, yadda yadda yadda :banghead: Not saying it's a bad idea intrinsically tho :p
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Here in Washington, those "Incident Response Trucks" are there to provide support for the LEO's that investigate the accident. They provide traffic control, remove vehicles from traffic lanes if possible, provide limited Hazmat response with absorbents, damming material, etc. The accidents are investigated by WSP, Sheriff's, or City Police.

Go to the East Coast and Larger cities use personnel similar to "Meter Maids" to investigate accidents. If there is an arrest to be made due to alcohol, etc, then a sworn officer is used but the "hours long paperwork, etc." is done by them and they make a salary/wage more comparable to an administrative office worker. Training requirements are far lessas they don't need to be trained in pursuit driving, firearms, hand-hand combat, and Criminal Law. Physical requirements are reduced as well. Ever been to San Francisco and seen the old 3-Wheel Harley's? That was one of their tasks, accidents and traffic.

Go to European Countries and you'll find the same practice. I saw it in GB and Germany. For some reason, it appears to be ingrained in our society that it takes a Police Officer to investigate a traffic accident. The biggest beneficiaries of a traffic accident investigation seem to be Insurance Companies. Let them fund it and take it away from the waste of a Government agency entirely.
 
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Metalhead47

Metalhead47

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South Whidbey, Washington, USA
amlevin said:
Here in Washington, those "Incident Response Trucks" are there to provide support for the LEO's that investigate the accident. They provide traffic control, remove vehicles from traffic lanes if possible, provide limited Hazmat response with absorbents, damming material, etc. The accidents are investigated by WSP, Sheriff's, or City Police.

Go to the East Coast and Larger cities use personnel similar to "Meter Maids" to investigate accidents. If there is an arrest to be made due to alcohol, etc, then a sworn officer is used but the "hours long paperwork, etc." is done by them and they make a salary/wage more comparable to an administrative office worker. Training requirements are far lessas they don't need to be trained in pursuit driving, firearms, hand-hand combat, and Criminal Law. Physical requirements are reduced as well. Ever been to San Francisco and seen the old 3-Wheel Harley's? That was one of their tasks, accidents and traffic.

Go to European Countries and you'll find the same practice. I saw it in GB and Germany. For some reason, it appears to be ingrained in our society that it takes a Police Officer to investigate a traffic accident. The biggest beneficiaries of a traffic accident investigation seem to be Insurance Companies. Let them fund it and take it away from the waste of a Government agency entirely.
Click to expand...

LOL No I have not been to San Forsakenso! I would sooner take a leisurely stroll beneath Shayol Ghul its self than set foot within a hundred miles of that pit of evil.

The accident response techs do seem like a good idea tho, with all the budget issues around here you'd think someone would have suggested it by now. If the east cost libs do it, the Seattle libs should be all over the idea :eek:
 
amlevin

amlevin

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Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
5,937
Location
North of Seattle, Washington, USA
Metalhead47 said:
LOL No I have not been to San Forsakenso! I would sooner take a leisurely stroll beneath Shayol Ghul its self than set foot within a hundred miles of that pit of evil.

The accident response techs do seem like a good idea tho, with all the budget issues around here you'd think someone would have suggested it by now. If the east cost libs do it, the Seattle libs should be all over the idea :eek:
Click to expand...

Change is slow. Remember when ALL evidence gathering was done only by patrol officers and detectives (well, maybe your not as old as I)? Today there are "evidence technicians" and of course, the famous "CSI". For some changes it will take not just managers and politicians to recognize the benefit, it will also take some cooperation from Unions. Not too many would appreciate having jobs reclassified to "non-sworn officer status" and have a corresponding reduction on pay range.

All change is resisted, even if it makes sense. when it comes to Unions for some reason. It's almost as if they don't recognize that their rank and file pay taxes too.
 
sudden valley gunner

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
gogodawgs said:
It is not a 'witness' and your comment "of a sort" and the courts response has also agreed. It is why the law pertaining to red light/photo tickets are written the way they are. They are not 'criminal' but administrative in nature. However, continuing to use cameras in an expanding role will cause issues with amendment VI.
Click to expand...

Most traffic violations are not criminal any more, they are civil infractions hence why the courts and city have so much leeway.
 
B

boatswain

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2010
Messages
36
Location
WA
I agree more police presence on foot would help with, especially with areas like that corner on Second Ave. There is a police substation nearby on 3rd at Macys but they need to be on foot.

Don't underestimate the number of people who conceal carry in downtown Seattle. There have been two self defense shootings by conceal carriers in recent years within a few blocks of that corner.
 
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