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Westboro Baptist Church Counterprotest

M

ManInBlack

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Jul 2, 2006
Messages
1,551
Location
SW Idaho
eastmeyers said:
I say call the national guard... Just to be a friendly barrier, let them have their stupid protest, I'll fight for their first amendment rights, but whose to say a FRIENDLY National Guard barrier wouldn't be a good idea. The family has the first amendment rights to have their peaceful service, so why not have a barrier between the two?
Click to expand...

Sure, let's have the federal (anyone who thinks that the National Guard is still a state function in anything other than name is, to put it frankly, a fool), armed stormtroopers enact a "barrier" at a lawful protest. I'm sure Thomas Jefferson would be on board with that. [/sarcasm]

The First Amendment to the US Constitution:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

From my reading of the text, I don't see how you can posit that the family of a deceased individual has a "right" to a peaceful funeral service. If held within a church, or other private property (such as a Catholic cemetery), I could see the protesters being denied entrance. However, they would still be fully within their (legitimate) First Amendment rights to protest right outside the gates.

Again, I brook no sympathy for the WBC, but using the coercive power of the government (and remember, everything that government does, by definition, is coercion) to chill their free speech is not a logical or prudent course of action for those of us who profess to love liberty.
 
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malignity

malignity

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Warren, Michigan, USA
This may sound funny or be an oversight, however do we have permission from the actual church to carry on their property? According to a friend there's also a high school attached to this building, so if you plan on carrying it must be open and with a CPL. I'd just hate to drive all that way only to be threatened to be removed from the premises for trespass or something stupid. If we can carry there without the church having a fuss, I'll do my best to attend.
 
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Z

zigziggityzoo

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Nov 28, 2008
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1,543
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
malignity said:
This may sound funny or be an oversight, however do we have permission from the actual church to carry on their property? According to a friend there's also a high school attached to this building, so if you plan on carrying it must be open and with a CPL. I'd just hate to drive all that way only to be threatened to be removed from the premises for trespass or something stupid. If we can carry there without the church having a fuss, I'll do my best to attend.
Click to expand...


One thing to remember here: THIS IS NOT AN OPEN CARRY EVENT. While you may tend to OC in the daily course of your life, the purpose of this event is to be a part of the flag line, honoring a fallen soldier.

If you tend to OC as part of your normal, daily life, by all means, do so, and bring a 3x5 foot flag, too. However, know that you WILL be a minority if you choose to OC at this event.

We're not making it a point to OC to provoke the Westboro Baptist Church. We're honoring a fallen soldier, to make sure the focus stays on the honor, and not the scum that's coming to protest.

Finally, the flag line will be along the road, and not necessarily on church property (though it may partially occur on church property, too). Take that for what you will.
 
DetroitBiker

DetroitBiker

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Messages
318
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USA
Here is a youtube video I thought I would post to show about What the Patriot Guard Riders are all about, and how they came to be. Some people have not heard of them untill recently and might be interested in joining us. Thank you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_RJMsrIT6s
 
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WARCHILD

WARCHILD

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Feb 18, 2008
Messages
1,768
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Corunna, Michigan, USA
zigziggityzoo said:
One thing to remember here: THIS IS NOT AN OPEN CARRY EVENT. While you may tend to OC in the daily course of your life, the purpose of this event is to be a part of the flag line, honoring a fallen soldier.

If you tend to OC as part of your normal, daily life, by all means, do so, and bring a 3x5 foot flag, too. However, know that you WILL be a minority if you choose to OC at this event.

We're not making it a point to OC to provoke the Westboro Baptist Church. We're honoring a fallen soldier, to make sure the focus stays on the honor, and not the scum that's coming to protest.

Finally, the flag line will be along the road, and not necessarily on church property (though it may partially occur on church property, too). Take that for what you will.
Click to expand...

Thanks for making this point Ziggy.
Please express my condolences and prayers to the family. I cannot make the trip.

Sorry...rant on...
Anyone besides notice that Mich members again have shown their loss of focus and purpose.
When an event is posted (gun related or not), as with this one; within very few posts the focus narrows into, what, when, how, to carry at the event.
The OP was an invitation to attend and support the family to offset the protest.
Look at the post responses...it's sickening.
Mich pistols, call on the NG, can we carry on church property...etc....

Not a damn word on what can we as a group do to support the family.
Forget the protesters, they have the right to be there, like it or not.
Our focus should be to have enough people attend to out number them and keep the attention on the service for a fallen soldier.

I guess we have done TOO good of a job getting OC accepted in this state. Now the focus seems geared towards confrontation and "in your face" whenever the opportunity arises to do so.

I guess I have to accept part of the blame for my part in promoting OC in the past years. It's just sad to see what we have become.

We defend our 2A rights and claim to support others rights as well, except we tend to add "but" to subdue theirs.

JMO
 
COMMANDER1911

COMMANDER1911

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Messages
129
Location
Flintstone, GA
ManInBlack said:
"Scumbags?" Didn't you mean to say, "patriots resisting an illegal (due to no constitutionally-required declaration of war) foreign invasion and occupation of THEIR country?"

I have nothing but disgust for the members of the Westboro Baptist Church, and I pray every day that all US service personnel will be swiftly brought home from all foreign countries to protect and defend the borders of the United States, but let's have a little perspective here. What would we be doing if the shoe were on the other foot, if foreign soldiers were occupying our nation? As for me and my house, we would be manufacturing IED's, setting ambushes, and in general, doing all the things that used to be considered "acts of war" but that our government now considers grounds for indefinite imprisonment as a "terrorist."
Click to expand...

Would you strap suicide vests to your children? Would you target the defenseless and weak? These people ARE scumbags. They aren't patriots. We are fighting an insurgency of terrorists. The people of afghanistan want the taliban out of their country. I've been there and done that. Don't compare the islamic terrorists to patriots.
 
malignity

malignity

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Joined
Oct 9, 2008
Messages
1,101
Location
Warren, Michigan, USA
zigziggityzoo said:
One thing to remember here: THIS IS NOT AN OPEN CARRY EVENT. While you may tend to OC in the daily course of your life, the purpose of this event is to be a part of the flag line, honoring a fallen soldier.

If you tend to OC as part of your normal, daily life, by all means, do so, and bring a 3x5 foot flag, too. However, know that you WILL be a minority if you choose to OC at this event.

We're not making it a point to OC to provoke the Westboro Baptist Church. We're honoring a fallen soldier, to make sure the focus stays on the honor, and not the scum that's coming to protest.

Finally, the flag line will be along the road, and not necessarily on church property (though it may partially occur on church property, too). Take that for what you will.
Click to expand...

Works for me.

Where can I get a flag? And how much are they?
 
DetroitBiker

DetroitBiker

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Aug 22, 2009
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318
Location
USA
Meijers has 3x5 on sale for $19.99 Made in the U.S.A.
$29.00 for the commercial grade ones
around $8.00 for the car window flags
you can make a pole out of 3/4" or 1" PVC
I drilled holes and zip tied the Flag to the pole
you can get couplers to split the pole in sections for easier storage
I made mine 3 pieces incase I want to travel with it folded up on the bike

The $19.00 ones look just as good as the $29.00 the difference is one is Nylon and the other is poly something
and more wind resistant. My 8' pole was under $10 to make with couplers,endcaps and all. I used 1"PVC
 
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J

jeremy05

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May 18, 2009
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426
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Arizona, ,
These people are worse than the Nazi's. I wish I could be there. People should try protesting their church and the funerals of people from their church.
 
M

ManInBlack

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Messages
1,551
Location
SW Idaho
COMMANDER1911 said:
Would you strap suicide vests to your children? Would you target the defenseless and weak? These people ARE scumbags. They aren't patriots. We are fighting an insurgency of terrorists. The people of afghanistan want the taliban out of their country. I've been there and done that. Don't compare the islamic terrorists to patriots.
Click to expand...

Targeting the defenseless and weak? You mean armed American soldiers, right? The only children that I've heard about dying in Afghanistan are the ones killed by our lovely and benevolent "freedom bombs."

If the people of Afghanistan want the Taliban out (which I think is highly debatable) then they need to have a revolution just like we did. We as Americans have no business deciding what form of government another country had. While it is not their fault, the fact is that every American soldier in Afghanistan is an illegal enemy combatant, fighting without a congressional declaration of war. May God bring them all home soon.

P.S.: We (the United States) armed and trained the Taliban when they were killing young Russian men. We need look no further than a mirror when casting blame for this "terrorist insurgency" that you speak of.
 
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DetroitBiker

DetroitBiker

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Can we keep this thread on topic PLEASE. The O.P. was about getting together and
Honoring a Fallen Soldier. Thank you
 
malignity

malignity

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Warren, Michigan, USA
I planned on attending, but it seems a friend of the family over on MGO is very adamant that we not OC. Though Kurt apparently said it's okay, he's having a conniption over there about it. I don't want to be around protesters who are obviously there for negative national attention unless I'm armed, and the only way I can be legally armed is if I OC with my CPL since I'm in a PFZ.

I sincerely want to go, however I don't plan on making myself an unarmed target if someone really wants to get some nation wide negative media attention at my expense.

I imagine if I go, I won't be the only one armed? (Perhaps this is a silly question)

Also, on a completely unrelated note, I get off work in Mt. Clemens at 0730 which is right on the way to Marine City. Does anyone want to pick me up and we can carpool the rest of the way? I'll throw you some gas money. PM me; my pocket book and F-150 will thank you.
 
DetroitBiker

DetroitBiker

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Messages
318
Location
USA
The westboro people are not going to be attacking anybody, they have been doing this for 5 years now. There will only be a dozen of them there or so. they hold their signs,sing their songs and try to get a rise out of people. thats what they do. The best way to counter that is if we ignore them,stand in front of them with our flags waving. dont give them the satisfaction of a debate. We will out number them by 10 fold. These people dont want to get physical with us, they want to screw with our emotions and make a sceen,then they get in their mini vans and go to the next town on their list.
 
A

autosurgeon

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Sep 29, 2008
Messages
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Lawrence, Michigan, United States
Yep just go there and act as you would normally. Be MR. Nice Guy and don't worry about the protesters. OC if that is what you normally do.

BE aware but don't make a big deal about the protesters. Just Shield and follow the cues from the PGR folks.
 
stainless1911

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WARCHILD said:
Thanks for making this point Ziggy.
Please express my condolences and prayers to the family. I cannot make the trip.

Sorry...rant on...
Anyone besides notice that Mich members again have shown their loss of focus and purpose.
When an event is posted (gun related or not), as with this one; within very few posts the focus narrows into, what, when, how, to carry at the event.
The OP was an invitation to attend and support the family to offset the protest.
Look at the post responses...it's sickening.
Mich pistols, call on the NG, can we carry on church property...etc....

Not a damn word on what can we as a group do to support the family.
Forget the protesters, they have the right to be there, like it or not.
Our focus should be to have enough people attend to out number them and keep the attention on the service for a fallen soldier.

I guess we have done TOO good of a job getting OC accepted in this state. Now the focus seems geared towards confrontation and "in your face" whenever the opportunity arises to do so.

I guess I have to accept part of the blame for my part in promoting OC in the past years. It's just sad to see what we have become.

We defend our 2A rights and claim to support others rights as well, except we tend to add "but" to subdue theirs.

JMO
Click to expand...

Hold on a sec, I thought that this was an OC event, sort of a public service thing similar to toys for tots, or any other charitable service work. Not a show of force or intimidation, but even peace through arms would be a stretch.
 
DetroitBiker

DetroitBiker

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USA
stainless1911 said:
Hold on a sec, I thought that this was an OC event, sort of a public service thing similar to toys for tots, or any other charitable service work. Not a show of force or intimidation, but even peace through arms would be a stretch.
Click to expand...


Nope.. This is an Honor and Respect event
 
A

autosurgeon

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While this is not an OC event. IF you OC everywhere in the regular course of your day then OCing while paying your respects would not be demonstrating.

However IMOP if I were to attend this I would OC in the least obtrusive way IE dress slacks shirt and tie. I would not OC in a drop leg to a funeral. I would however OC in a belt holster.

NOTE this is what I would do however the family needs to be uppermost in everyone's minds!
 
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