What is the next step for this legislation? When will they be meeting/voting to either approve the SB234 changes or allow HB517 to stand alone? If they do not merge the two into one identical bill then it is my understanding that SB234 dies and HB517 starts the committee process in the Senate all over again, correct?
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Hb517..
- Thread starter BountyXP
- Start date
~*'Phoenix'*~
Regular Member
Yeah, that's about right. Which means, with the whole session ending in 10 days, that 517 wouldn't see it's first senate committee before the fat lady sings. Provided it ddid miraculously hit the committees, it would get through Criminal Justice anyway.
Looks as though the thing just fizzled out? Was probably a "go through -some-of the motions" thing anyway...smoke up our backsides, if they didnt follow-through..
http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/sections/bills/billsdetail.aspx?BillId=45327
http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/sections/bills/billsdetail.aspx?BillId=45327
Rick H
Regular Member
These people should vote against this new amendment on SB234 right ? will this effect the out come of the Amendment or the entire bill or will it even matter? there are eleven of them. or do they even get a say on this ?
GENERAL BILL by Judiciary Committee and Criminal Justice Subcommittee and Dorworth (CO-SPONSORS) Abruzzo; Baxley; Broxson; Caldwell; Corcoran; Gaetz; Plakon; Tobia; Van Zant; Workman
GENERAL BILL by Judiciary Committee and Criminal Justice Subcommittee and Dorworth (CO-SPONSORS) Abruzzo; Baxley; Broxson; Caldwell; Corcoran; Gaetz; Plakon; Tobia; Van Zant; Workman
GoOfY-FoOt
New member
An attempt to explain our legislative process...
In Florida, there are two houses that propose bills to be established into law. The Senate and the House of Representatives. Each house will need to pass a bill with "precisely the same words and figures", to continue on to the Governor, for the required signature, to create a new law.
The Open Carry bills for each house are Senate Bill (SB) 234 and House Bill (HB) 517.
HB 517, in it's current form, still contains the open carry language. If it continues through the house as it is written, there would be a Conference Committee established, to try and reach an agreement on the two bills.
See here..http://www.flsenate.gov/Committees/Process
Open Carry is not dead, yet. But it is definitely, fading fast.
What most are speculating is that the younger House members will bow to their senior Senate counterparts, and modify HB 517 to match SB 234.
We all need to get on the horn to our respective House members and urge them to pass HB 517, AS IT IS. Which will at least give it a final chance. And if both bills die, due to disagreement, we are no better or worse....
Bill
In Florida, there are two houses that propose bills to be established into law. The Senate and the House of Representatives. Each house will need to pass a bill with "precisely the same words and figures", to continue on to the Governor, for the required signature, to create a new law.
The Open Carry bills for each house are Senate Bill (SB) 234 and House Bill (HB) 517.
HB 517, in it's current form, still contains the open carry language. If it continues through the house as it is written, there would be a Conference Committee established, to try and reach an agreement on the two bills.
See here..http://www.flsenate.gov/Committees/Process
Open Carry is not dead, yet. But it is definitely, fading fast.
What most are speculating is that the younger House members will bow to their senior Senate counterparts, and modify HB 517 to match SB 234.
We all need to get on the horn to our respective House members and urge them to pass HB 517, AS IT IS. Which will at least give it a final chance. And if both bills die, due to disagreement, we are no better or worse....
Bill
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Rick H
Regular Member
In a understanding way , Thank You.
brboyer
Regular Member
The session ends Friday - not enough time left for a House vote and then a conference committee (which would likely be CJ on the Senate side anyway.)
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That is the key to keep HB517 without change and have both bills die. They will have to revisit SB234 or new version of it under the next session to address the long gun language of the federal law. If we don't get that to happen (HB517 unchanged) it will be more difficult to introduce an open carry bill that doesn't have anything else in it but open carry.
I doubt Evers will introduce a new bill strictly designed for open carry. The senators didn't want open carry from the start and the title "Open Carry Bill" was a smoke screen. The NRA just wanted a victory and open carry was not their priority. We will have very little support for a new open carry bill if SB234 is signed by the Gov.
Contrary to what Florida Carry and Stogie are saying I don’t believe the “friendly senators” and the NRA are truly behind open carry. They do however need to address the long gun issue of the federal law. Killing both bills will force them to draft a new bill which hopefully will include open carry in it.
Ok, so a couple of scenarios:
We need to begin looking at what to do if:
a) Bill simply dies due to not enough time to work it out before session ends-OR- House is unable to get Senate to match it.
Do we go back to begging and grovelling the same folks again to try to introduce a new one-PROPERLY WORDED in the 1st place- and spend however long riding their backs to keep the pressure on to stick to it?
Or do we hold off until next election, and try to replace as many of them as we can with folks more favorable to our cause?
b)if the House bows to the Senate, and changes it to match the Senate version-
Do we simply accept that,and try again next time as in A)?
or, do we add the House to the replace at all cost method next election?
rvrctyrngr
Regular Member
Don't see it happening, firedog. Most likely scenario, sad to say, is that 517 gets tabled and the House votes on SB234, as is.
Indeed. And if that proves to be the case, I say scrap both this Senate and this House.
Regroup, and begin working towards identifying,auditioning, and putting onto the ballot,candidates far more suitable to the task for the next election.
Spend the time,money and efforts on things that will hopefully put us in a better position for a more determined effort with some fresh meat in the seats in Tally.
There you go! The senate and the NRA failed us and the house needs to know we took notice. The momentum now should be to convince the house members that if they don't get both bills killed do not expect our support when they are ready to move to the senate.
That is the purpose of the house is to control the senate and learn the ropes for their future move as a Senator. Let them know we are here to support their growth but they better demonstrate their resolve (balls) if they want it.
Far as Im concerned,if you want to get it, you need to EARN it. (promotion)
It is waaay past time elected officials-of any kind/office/level learn that.
For some items/issues the whole "aw,gee, no problem, maybe next time" crap can work.
This,I do not consider to be one of those items or issues.
If you or I went in to work tommorow, with the intent of slacking off, going through the motions, telling the boss "yeah yeah" then going on our merry way and not doing the job-would we have any reasonable expectation of still having that job tommorow?
Or would we still be dillusional enough to think we are still in line for that next promotion to something bigger, better, with improved pay and benefits?
brboyer
Regular Member
Folks,
There is no time for a House vote and them compromise committees (would not do any good anyway), so think what the likely result of no action by the House, or a veto by Scott.
The Anti's (and a bunch of uninformed nut-cases on the 'pro' side) would immediately jump on that and we will see MSM reports on how the Governor lied during the campaign and he really does not support gun owners. A lie, but it will be all over the place and twisted beyond belief. And nothing we can says will change the minds of people that hear this reported over and over.
Same thing if the House does nothing and lets 517 dies.
And if they pass 517 as is, the media reports will be similar, the House approved a substantially different version knowing full well that there was not enough time to address the differences, so the bill is dead.
It's politics folks, remember that. We may not like it, but thats the way it works IRL. Angry, threatening, uninformed e-mail and letters will be counter-productive.
Relax on all of the hate and loudmouthed posturing. Let the folks that have the ability of working within the process do their thing. They will discover all of the underlying politics and then we can start to address it.
There is no time for a House vote and them compromise committees (would not do any good anyway), so think what the likely result of no action by the House, or a veto by Scott.
The Anti's (and a bunch of uninformed nut-cases on the 'pro' side) would immediately jump on that and we will see MSM reports on how the Governor lied during the campaign and he really does not support gun owners. A lie, but it will be all over the place and twisted beyond belief. And nothing we can says will change the minds of people that hear this reported over and over.
Same thing if the House does nothing and lets 517 dies.
And if they pass 517 as is, the media reports will be similar, the House approved a substantially different version knowing full well that there was not enough time to address the differences, so the bill is dead.
It's politics folks, remember that. We may not like it, but thats the way it works IRL. Angry, threatening, uninformed e-mail and letters will be counter-productive.
Relax on all of the hate and loudmouthed posturing. Let the folks that have the ability of working within the process do their thing. They will discover all of the underlying politics and then we can start to address it.
"There is no time for a House vote and them compromise committees (would not do any good anyway), so think what the likely result of no action by the House"
A bit interesting,is it not, how that timed out? hmmmmmmmmmmmm..."oops,sorry ran out of time to go through the motions for ya, sorry.."
"how the Governor lied during the campaign and he really does not support gun owners. A lie, but it will be all over the place and twisted beyond belief."
I'd like to hope not. Im sure most people see,or should see, that there is no blame to be laid at the Governor's feet on this ,yet. Had this bill made it to his desk in this form, Im confident he would have vetoed it.If he were to prove me wrong on this, I'd of course be singing a different tune,but it seems a moot point for the moment.
"uninformed e-mail and letters"
Now to this: Please,do enlighten me, and the rest of us of like minds, where we are "uninformed" exactly.
Sure, in the little nuts/bolts/schemes of why/how this got mangled,perhaps.
But, five over-riding principles are at the root of all of this:
*That a fundamental right of our citizens is being deliberately,and knowingly, denied.And has been for years.
*That a chance to put that to rights was knowingly and deliberately sabotaged by some of our legislators.
*That other legislators -whom we were led to believe were in support of this effort- failed to push that effort through to victory.Regardless of the mechinations in place publicly,and behind the scenes.
*That the alleged "friendly" law-makers,armed with at least a margin of a majority,still caved in and surrendered at the last moment.For whatever reasons or motivations they may have had for doing so.
*That for more than just a few of us,all of the above is entirely un-acceptable.
A bit interesting,is it not, how that timed out? hmmmmmmmmmmmm..."oops,sorry ran out of time to go through the motions for ya, sorry.."
"how the Governor lied during the campaign and he really does not support gun owners. A lie, but it will be all over the place and twisted beyond belief."
I'd like to hope not. Im sure most people see,or should see, that there is no blame to be laid at the Governor's feet on this ,yet. Had this bill made it to his desk in this form, Im confident he would have vetoed it.If he were to prove me wrong on this, I'd of course be singing a different tune,but it seems a moot point for the moment.
"uninformed e-mail and letters"
Now to this: Please,do enlighten me, and the rest of us of like minds, where we are "uninformed" exactly.
Sure, in the little nuts/bolts/schemes of why/how this got mangled,perhaps.
But, five over-riding principles are at the root of all of this:
*That a fundamental right of our citizens is being deliberately,and knowingly, denied.And has been for years.
*That a chance to put that to rights was knowingly and deliberately sabotaged by some of our legislators.
*That other legislators -whom we were led to believe were in support of this effort- failed to push that effort through to victory.Regardless of the mechinations in place publicly,and behind the scenes.
*That the alleged "friendly" law-makers,armed with at least a margin of a majority,still caved in and surrendered at the last moment.For whatever reasons or motivations they may have had for doing so.
*That for more than just a few of us,all of the above is entirely un-acceptable.
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Humm, " Let the folks that have the ability of working within the process do their thing. We did that already and got nothing. Not taking away from their efforts but just saying they need some help.
"The Anti's (and a bunch of uninformed nut-cases on the 'pro' side) would immediately jump on that and we will see MSM reports on how the Governor lied during the campaign and he really does not support gun owners. A lie, but it will be all over the place and twisted beyond belief. And nothing we can says will change the minds of people that hear this reported over and over". I think the Governor can defend himself and he has already said he supported OC which got yanked. It was his senate that that failed us and he is well capable or relaying that point to the people, be them "nut-cases on the pro side" or not.
Relax: Are you kidding me?
And if they pass 517 as is, the media reports will be similar, the House approved a substantially different version knowing full well that there was not enough time to address the differences, so the bill is dead.: And they will demonstrate they are not willing to compromise on 2A rights of Floridians. And, in a few years "welcome to the senate".
brboyer
Regular Member
You admit that
It's really quite simple. You do not know what happened for the events to transpire as they did. Then you make these grandiose accusations based on nothing more than an admittedly brief public exposure during committee meetings/votes. 95% of politics is done behind closed doors, it's not right, but it is a fact.
The nature of politics will likely never change, and it will certainly never change because of angry, threatening, nut-case e-mails.
For the most part, it's about money. There may be a few altruistic souls in politics, but they never last long. The priorities are re-election and election to a better post with more ability to get more money. The people with the most money convey the most power. That is why the NRA is so effective when they go all out on one of their priorities. We need to convince them that this is what they should focus on in Florida. And again, angry, threatening e-mails to them are going to end up in the circular files too.
We must work from within the system to effect change.
"We must work from within the system to effect change. "
Bingo.Precisely. By replacing those currently IN the system,and serving only to impede the achievment of our goals, with folks more inclined to get it done. Thank you.
Yes, I understand full well that all manner of BS transpires behind the scenes on such things.Although, I have a hard time figuring who's $$ would be gained/exchanged to convince them to deliberately prevent OC.
Not that it matters-the result we get out of it is the same. Bent over like a cheap Bangkok prostitute on payday again.
Hence, we need some folks in place-eventually-who are made to understand before they get voted in-that such back-room nonsense that undermines our efforts will/should result in their termination next time.
Bingo.Precisely. By replacing those currently IN the system,and serving only to impede the achievment of our goals, with folks more inclined to get it done. Thank you.
Yes, I understand full well that all manner of BS transpires behind the scenes on such things.Although, I have a hard time figuring who's $$ would be gained/exchanged to convince them to deliberately prevent OC.
Not that it matters-the result we get out of it is the same. Bent over like a cheap Bangkok prostitute on payday again.
Hence, we need some folks in place-eventually-who are made to understand before they get voted in-that such back-room nonsense that undermines our efforts will/should result in their termination next time.
"The nature of politics will likely never change"
Ah, and there's NO reason that has to be/should be accepted as some kind of "norm" that we just shrug off. It can very well change, if the practicioners of such methods are made fully aware (at the polls) that there is a flip side to selling out/betraying the voters today,in favor of a couple of bucks in their campaign coffers tommorow.
Send that message often enough, and clearly enough,and I'm sure at least some of them will eventually "GET IT".
Ah, and there's NO reason that has to be/should be accepted as some kind of "norm" that we just shrug off. It can very well change, if the practicioners of such methods are made fully aware (at the polls) that there is a flip side to selling out/betraying the voters today,in favor of a couple of bucks in their campaign coffers tommorow.
Send that message often enough, and clearly enough,and I'm sure at least some of them will eventually "GET IT".