I need help with CPL.

casper · Feb 25, 2013

I was "wrongfully" denied a CPL from Ottawa County back in Aug 2012. I really need the laws to change so I can carry in my car, or to have the State issue the CPL's. Until that happens I'm stuck. Anyone want to point me in the right direction to appeal a denial ? It "should" be an easy win, but I don't have alot of money to fight it. Anyone know if it will do any good to appeal ? What are the odds of winning against the very establishment that denied it in the first place ?

budlight · Feb 25, 2013

casper said:
I was "wrongfully" denied a CPL from Ottawa County back in Aug 2012. I really need the laws to change so I can carry in my car, or to have the State issue the CPL's. Until that happens I'm stuck. Anyone want to point me in the right direction to appeal a denial ? It "should" be an easy win, but I don't have alot of money to fight it. Anyone know if it will do any good to appeal ? What are the odds of winning against the very establishment that denied it in the first place ?

What is their reason for denying it? The reason I ask is before I give my two cents on whether it's worth appealing I would like to know their reason.

DrTodd · Feb 25, 2013

casper said:
I was "wrongfully" denied a CPL from Ottawa County back in Aug 2012. I really need the laws to change so I can carry in my car, or to have the State issue the CPL's. Until that happens I'm stuck. Anyone want to point me in the right direction to appeal a denial ? It "should" be an easy win, but I don't have alot of money to fight it. Anyone know if it will do any good to appeal ? What are the odds of winning against the very establishment that denied it in the first place ?

YES, appeal the case to the circuit court if you have been wrongfully denied; there may be timelines regarding this that have already passed. Ottawa County, at one time the most Republican county in the country, has a history of this:

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/mi-court-of-appeals/1400465.html

The prosecutor is BIG in the R party...and some here think the Republican Party is all about gun rights...

casper · Feb 25, 2013

There is "nothing" on that long list of things that apply to me. They will not tell me what their looking at for the denial. I was "questioned" for a felony, but I proved my innocence with a polygragh, that I asked for. The polygrapher said I flat lined the test, duh, I didn't do anything. I've had a distruction of property over 8 years ago(I threw my ex wifes glasses out the car window, when she wouldn't get out of my car, the car was parked and I threw them out on the lawn.) I got popped for disturbing the piece for yelling at the neighbor lady, for harassing my family 3 years ago. (I was in my drive way at the time.) My criminal record isn't flawless.

griffin · Feb 25, 2013

casper said:
I was "wrongfully" denied a CPL from Ottawa County back in Aug 2012. I really need the laws to change so I can carry in my car, or to have the State issue the CPL's. Until that happens I'm stuck. Anyone want to point me in the right direction to appeal a denial ? It "should" be an easy win, but I don't have alot of money to fight it. Anyone know if it will do any good to appeal ? What are the odds of winning against the very establishment that denied it in the first place ?

Depends on your case. You can appeal it yourself. Why were you denied? The CPL laws are pretty cut-and-dried. If you were truly wrongfully denied it should be an easy self-appeal win.

DrTodd · Feb 25, 2013

casper said:
There is "nothing" on that long list of things that apply to me. They will not tell me what their looking at for the denial. I was "questioned" for a felony, but I proved my innocence with a polygragh, that I asked for. The polygrapher said I flat lined the test, duh, I didn't do anything. I've had a distruction of property over 8 years ago(I threw my ex wifes glasses out the car window, when she wouldn't get out of my car.) I got popped for disturbing the piece for yelling at the neighbor lady, for harassing my family 3 years ago. My criminal record isn't flawless.

Most likely they made the determination that issuing the license would be "detrimental to the safety of the applicant or to any other individual" which is much like the case to which I provided a link above. Read that case and you will see that the applicant was no "saint"... but the law does not require you to be one. As griffin stated, you may initiate the action on your own and, if it is clear cut, you will prevail.

casper · Feb 25, 2013

DrTodd said:
Most likely they made the determination that issuing the license would be "detrimental to the safety of the applicant or to any other individual" which is much like the case to which I provided a link above. Read that case and you will see that the applicant was no "saint"... but the law does not require you to be one. As griffin stated, you may initiate the action on your own and, if it is clear cut, you will prevail.

That's how they wrote it. The key word in my defence is (would).

FreeInAZ · Feb 25, 2013

Casper - follow Todd's & Griff's advice. County boards are full of political jockeys who dick around with people for sport at times. Assuming you are telling the truth, you have nothing in your past that THE LAW says will disqualify you. These goofs made a judgement call outside of the law. My bet is once they get notice you have filed a motion with the court, you magically will receive a "come pick it up call" Wayne Co. Plays this game also. I would guess that most of the people wrongfully denied just give up. This is exactly what these "king like" figures want...control over the masses.

casper · Feb 26, 2013

They are playing games with me. I got a purchace permit in June of last year and it went right through with no delay, then in August I went to get another one and they denied me a permit. Even the "tool" that handles the appeals said no. Now that it gets called into NICS it magically goes right through again. Go figure huh. They should be held accountable for abusing the rights of people. Those badges are to protect the people, not rule over them, right. I have been buying long guns and hand guns for over 25 years. Don't they have a record of that ?

scot623 · Feb 26, 2013

casper said:
That's how they wrote it. The key word in my defence is (would).

Two separate convictions plus other involvement with the police will be a tough nut to crack. Sounds like they are using the "village idiot" clause.

casper · Feb 26, 2013

scot623 said:
Two separate convictions plus other involvement with the police will be a tough nut to crack. Sounds like they are using the "village idiot" clause.

Please explain.

scot623 · Feb 26, 2013

That was a good read, thanks for the link Dr. Todd.

casper · Feb 26, 2013

Ok, DrTodd and or TheQ, what would be my best bet to getting my CPL. Reapply and appeal if I get denied, wait at least a year, wait and see if SB-59 passes ? I really want it bad, if you can't tell.:lol:

DrTodd · Feb 26, 2013

casper said:
Ok, DrTodd and or TheQ, what would be my best bet to getting my CPL. Reapply and appeal if I get denied, wait at least a year, wait and see if SB-59 passes ? I really want it bad, if you can't tell.:lol:

If you have missed a timeline, I would re-apply. IF I were then denied, I would appeal the denial and, if/when it gets to court, represent myself. You may not feel up to the fight, though, which I would understand.

casper · Feb 26, 2013

Then I will try that. Thank you Sir.

TheQ · Feb 26, 2013

DrTodd said:
If you have missed a timeline, I would re-apply. IF I were then denied, I would appeal the denial and, if/when it gets to court, represent myself. You may not feel up to the fight, though, which I would understand.

I would represent myself, but I have hundreds of hours of Michigan firearm law reading and case law under my belt.

If you aren't familiar with the court process, laws, and relevant case law you might want to lawyer up. If you lawyer up, take him with you to any gun board hearing you have -- it may convince them not to screw with you if they see a lawyer in tow.

casper · Feb 26, 2013

TheQ said:
I would represent myself, but I have hundreds of hours of Michigan firearm law reading and case law under my belt.

If you aren't familiar with the court process, laws, and relevant case law you might want to lawyer up. If you lawyer up, take him with you to any gun board hearing you have -- it may convince them not to screw with you if they see a lawyer in tow.

When can you start ?

DrTodd · Feb 26, 2013

TheQ said:
I would represent myself, but I have hundreds of hours of Michigan firearm law reading and case law under my belt.

If you aren't familiar with the court process, laws, and relevant case law you might want to lawyer up. If you lawyer up, take him with you to any gun board hearing you have -- it may convince them not to screw with you if they see a lawyer in tow.

As would I... but I certainly don't begrudge anyone feeling that the task is better left to an attorney.

DrTodd · Feb 26, 2013

casper said:
When can you start ?

He's not an attorney.

casper · Feb 26, 2013

DrTodd said:
He's not an attorney.

But he did stay at a Holliday inn last night.:banana:

I need help with CPL.

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