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This is a perfect example of how to conduct yourself on a Police Open Carry Call

RugerP95DC

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Sep 17, 2012
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154
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Board Of Directors OKOCA
after watching this again, I retract my statement about him being calm, he was kind of a jerk to the police officer, he could have had a better conversation.

Dustin
 

Griz

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What requirement does he have to give his name, first or last?
 

WalkingWolf

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Jul 31, 2011
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North Carolina
Yes, he was being an asshat. Like a broken record, kept saying the same things over and over. Would not even give them his first name. No way I would have acted like that.

He was a person exerting his rights and liberty~guess I am an asshat too.:banghead:
 
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cbxer55

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Feb 25, 2009
Messages
127
Location
Midwest City, Oklahoma, USA
He was a person exerting his rights and liberty~guess I am an asshat too.:banghead:

I do not have a problem with him asserting his rights. But IMHO he was doing it to the nth degree. Come on, what's wrong with telling them your first name and carrying on a nice conversation, instead of being aggressive. I have had many encounters with police, and have never carried on like that. If I was the officer, I would have held him until the supervisor got on the scene. But that's just me.

See the second post by the same person who started this thread.
 
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WalkingWolf

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I do not have a problem with him asserting his rights. But IMHO he was doing it to the nth degree. Come on, what's wrong with telling them your first name and carrying on a nice conversation, instead of being aggressive. I have had many encounters with police, and have never carried on like that. If I was the officer, I would have held him until the supervisor got on the scene. But that's just me.

See the second post by the same person who started this thread.

The officer illegally stopped him, stole his gun, and YOU think he was the asshat? It is because of people like him that the police find they cannot hassle others. It is because others submit and give up their rights that we still have problems.
 

Fallschirjmäger

Active member
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
3,823
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
When the cops stop you and you're doing nothing illegal, immoral, or even fattening, it's very important to determine WHY you are being stopped. If you'll note, Officer Friendly was very reticent to articulate any allegations of illegality.

At a time like that, it's vitally important NOT to allow Officer Friendly to be in charge of the conversation and steer it towards his ends.
Ask if he's investigating a crime, again and again ad nauseum if need be and Do NOT allow him to further the interrogation until the question is answered.

I can only point to one small example of this, a personal one between me and Sergeant Chapel of the Gwinnet County (Georgia) Police Department after I was detained for peacefully exercising at a public park. - - -

"Gentlemen, I am trying to finish my walk. Can I do it, please? I’m being detained for suspicion of something who-… You guys won’t tell me what it is."
Sgt. Chapel, "You obviously don’t live around here because you have a Forsyth County permit, right?"
"I’m sure –… Can someone say something I’m being suspicious of? Elucidate something from the Georgia Code, or Gwinett Code, that says…"
Sgt. Chapel, "Here’s one for you, here’s one for you, all right… You have a permit that says you live in Forsyth County, all right? Did you walk all the way here from Forsyth County?"
"I have a permit that was issued in Forsyth County. Am I restricted to the bounds of Forsyth County?
Sgt. Chapel, "Did you drive down here?"
Sgt. Chapel, "You know, your permit is a privilege as well as a right. It can be taken away from you as well."
"By the Probate Court Judge, would you like the number?"
Sgt. Chapel, "We have the number."
Sgt. Chapel, "and when you’re given a permit you’re expected to cooperate a little bit with law enforcement."
"Actually, I’m required to cooperate; as required by law."

Sgt. Chapel, "Why aren’t you?"
"What am I not doing that’s required?"
Sgt. Chapel (silence)

"What Am I Not Doing That’s Required, Sergeant Chapel?
Sgt. Chapel (silence)
Sgt. Chapel, "Did you drive here, sir, or did you walk here?"

"What...am...I...not...doing...that’s...required...Sergeant Chapel?"
Sgt. Chapel, "Did you drive here, or did you walk here?"

"What...Am...I...Not...Doing...That’s...Required...Sergeant Chapel?"
Sgt. Chapel, "There you go, right there."
(At that point, Sgt Chapel departs the immediate area, either distracted by something shiny or perhaps thought he'd left the iron on at home. Either way he decided he had better places to be and better things to do than continue his 'interrogation'.
"You see? I still haven’t been told what what I’m doing wrong yet. I’m rapidly losing my target heartbeat here, guys."
 
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Anonymouse

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Messages
210
Location
Virginia
He handled that like a boss.

But how do you get over the "oh crap I'm going to jail after the SS tasers and beats me" feeling???

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
 

Citizen

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Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
SNIP He was a person exerting his rights and liberty..

+1

There is nothing in the Bill of Rights requiring rights to be exercised politely. If we require certain rights to be exercised politely, we're implying that those who can't or don't exercise them politely do not have those rights. What if a fella has a really hard time being polite in the face of indignity because of temperment?

He was tense. Are we really going to require people who are tense when seized by police have to exercise their rights politely?

His person was illegally seized as was his weapon.

I think he did great! He even got the cop to admit on video that the cop did not have legal justification for the seizures. Nice trap, "Is that the only reason you stopped me?" Very nice.

Regarding giving a first name, there is no requirement to cooperate even partially when not compelled by law to give a name. Notice that the cop tried the ID document demand. With the added tactic of coercion. "Need your ID, then we'll get you on your way." (emphasis added by Citizen). The cop just told him the illegal seizures of his person and gun would continue until he cooperated beyond the requirements of the law. Nasty little thug of a cop. Makes an ID document demand, adds coercion, and does it politely. No conscience in his way. Now, the ID document demand occurred early, before the cop's admission about no RAS. But, just because video viewers couldn't know the ID document demand was illegal doesn't mean the cop didn't know it. And, since the OCer couldn't know it, we have the cop trying to play on the citizen's supposed lack of information to help make the coercion stick. Furthermore, since the cop didn't immediately start reaching into the OCer's pocket for his wallet and ID, we have added evidence the cop knew his ID document demand was illegal. And, since the cop reverted to an attempt at a verbal first name, instead of continuing the demand for an ID document, or threatening citation for refusing to provide an ID document, we have further evidence the cop knew he had no authority to demand an ID document.

Notice also the cop's specious justification for demanding identity. He didn't know whether the OCer was a prohibited possessor. Nice admission on video--no RAS, no probable cause.

I think he deserves a medal for drawing out and proving some cops in that burg make it up as they go along and are willing to violate people's rights. Which raises two questions. How long have they been making it up and violating people's rights? And, in what other ways are they violating people's rights.


You can find links to all the federal cases he mentioned here: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?55914-Get-Your-4th-and-5th-Amendment-Resources-Here!!
 
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Fallschirjmäger

Active member
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
3,823
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
He handled that like a boss.
But how do you get over the "oh crap I'm going to jail after the SS tasers and beats me" feeling???
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
Same way attorney's practice for court, same way officers practice to interrogate citizens, same way you get to Carnegie Hall.

.... you practice scenarios, you practice answers, you become familiar with the laws (you don't have to be able to quote them, heck the Officers can't do that so it's not like you're going to convince them by saying it's State Code 11-22-27, sub-paragraph (e) (1)).

You also remind yourself that even if you wind up spending a few hours in jail, your record can be expunged when the district attorney drops the case and the civil suit against the officers is won.
 

xmanhockey7

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
1,195
The guy did not want to stand there and have a convo with this cop and he was being detained how is he the "ass hat"? Why should this guy give up anymore than he has to which is nothing. The cop illegally stopped and seized his pistol and on top of that pointed it at him!!!!!!!
 

babiker911

New member
Joined
Nov 11, 2012
Messages
7
Location
Tulsa
+1

There is nothing in the Bill of Rights requiring rights to be exercised politely. If we require certain rights to be exercised politely, we're implying that those who can't or don't exercise them politely do not have those rights. What if a fella has a really hard time being polite in the face of indignity because of temperment?

He was tense. Are we really going to require people who are tense when seized by police have to exercise their rights politely?

His person was illegally seized as was his weapon.

I think he did great! He even got the cop to admit on video that the cop did not have legal justification for the seizures. Nice trap, "Is that the only reason you stopped me?" Very nice.

Regarding giving a first name, there is no requirement to cooperate even partially when not compelled by law to give a name. Notice that the cop tried the ID document demand. With the added tactic of coercion. "Need your ID, then we'll get you on your way." (emphasis added by Citizen). The cop just told him the illegal seizures of his person and gun would continue until he cooperated beyond the requirements of the law. Nasty little thug of a cop. Makes an ID document demand, adds coercion, and does it politely. No conscience in his way. Now, the ID document demand occurred early, before the cop's admission about no RAS. But, just because video viewers couldn't know the ID document demand was illegal doesn't mean the cop didn't know it. And, since the OCer couldn't know it, we have the cop trying to play on the citizen's supposed lack of information to help make the coercion stick. Furthermore, since the cop didn't immediately start reaching into the OCer's pocket for his wallet and ID, we have added evidence the cop knew his ID document demand was illegal. And, since the cop reverted to an attempt at a verbal first name, instead of continuing the demand for an ID document, or threatening citation for refusing to provide an ID document, we have further evidence the cop knew he had no authority to demand an ID document.

Notice also the cop's specious justification for demanding identity. He didn't know whether the OCer was a prohibited possessor. Nice admission on video--no RAS, no probable cause.

I think he deserves a medal for drawing out and proving some cops in that burg make it up as they go along and are willing to violate people's rights. Which raises two questions. How long have they been making it up and violating people's rights? And, in what other ways are they violating people's rights.

I agree 1000%. This cop clearly broke the law, trampled on this man's rights, and didn't care. This guy should make an example out of this cop and his department and sue the hell out of them. That's the only way you'll keep this sort of thing from happening over and over.
 

Citizen

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Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
Hey! Ian! Good to hear from you!!

Did you hear that VAPatriot enjoyed an evening of research at the Kings Park library recently? Now, I know something interesting and OC-related happened there, but I can't place it. :)
 

hermannr

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Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
2,327
Location
Okanogan Highland
I guess I should be very thankful I live where I live...eh? After 42+ years of carry, mostly open carry, I have had three conversations with LE...None of which included: what is your name? I want to see your ID and CPL. or why are you carrying that...

The officer's statements in my cases were:

#1: Hunting? (only word spoken by the officer directly to me, I was ouside a grocery store purchasing camp supplies..getting ready to leave.) My answer to him was "Yep"...end of discussion.

#2: Officer: when are you going to join our gun club...it's only $25 a year.

#3: Officer: "what is it?" Me "CZ85" Officer "nice looking gun"

That is it folks...I don't know where the jerk officers are hiding, but it ain't around me.
 

IanB

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Joined
Jul 18, 2006
Messages
1,896
Location
Northern VA
Now, I know something interesting and OC-related happened there, but I can't place it. :)

Wait, you mean that one time IanB and a bunch of like-minded asshats like yourself showed up to videotape the "Million Mom March" loons dispensing incorrect anti-gun information in a taxpayer funded public library conference room? The same public meeting which they advertised in the newspaper? That same meeting where "Judas" AKA Bob Ricker was gonna tell us all how evil guns are? The same meeting where one of the Mommies blurted out that asshat IanB "has a small penis"? (yes, it's on the video) Good times!!

[video=youtube;ZAsyrBTvN2g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAsyrBTvN2g[/video]

Part two:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lc8uXTfpdHM

Part three: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CnDvnPFzL0
 
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Springfield Smitty

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Joined
May 22, 2009
Messages
296
Location
OKC, OK (Heading back to MI very soon - thank good
If some of you are willing to cooperate with illegal activities conducted by LEO's just so you can appear 'nice' then feel free to do so; but don't put down or insult others who choose to stand up for their rights and force bullies to cease their illegal detentions, searches, and / or seizures. Maybe if enough people make that conscious decision, these Gestapo-like PUBLIC SERVANTS will back down and realize that they are there to SERVE the very people they are harassing. Most LEO's do have good intentions and seek to honestly carry out their duties, even if they sometimes make honest mistakes in the way in which they carry out those duties. For those who continue to violate the civil rights of LAC's, lawsuits are the only way they will learn. When the city and the PD have to cough up substantial amounts of money because of a bone-headed bully, the entire agency will be retrained and life will be more pleasant for others who seek to simply live their lives peacefully exercising their rights and protecting themselves and others. Every OC'er should thank this man, be greatful for his willingness to stand up for his (and all of our) rights, and seek to be more like him during encounters such as this one. Know the law, know your rights, and don't be afraid to stand up for what you know is right. Of course, if you want to bow down to the unlawful actions of LEO's like the one in the video...feel free to do so; just be thankful that there are other people who are willing to stand up for your rights when you are not. I personally continue to choose to be a sheepdog rather than a sheep.
 
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Springfield Smitty

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Joined
May 22, 2009
Messages
296
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OKC, OK (Heading back to MI very soon - thank good
I do not have a problem with him asserting his rights. But IMHO he was doing it to the nth degree. Come on, what's wrong with telling them your first name and carrying on a nice conversation, instead of being aggressive. I have had many encounters with police, and have never carried on like that. If I was the officer, I would have held him until the supervisor got on the scene. But that's just me.

See the second post by the same person who started this thread.

He did just that. The man with the triple chevrons on his sleeve is a sergeant. He was the cop's supervisor. Note that upon his arrival on scene he informed the LAC that he was free to go. He was well aware that his subordinate's actions were illegal and immediately corrected the injustice. Also note that at the beginning of the illegal detention the LAC requested that a supervisor be summoned to the scene because he knew that he was being detained, interrogated, and his property seized contrary to what the law allows. It is always a good idea to request the presence of a supervisor if you feel that a LEO is overstepping his bounds. It doesn't always work out the way it did in the video; but I would say that it does about 95% of the time. In the situations where it doesn't, it is most likely due to department policy being in violation of the law.
 
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Aknazer

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Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
1,760
Location
California
Anyone have another link to this? It has been taken down due to "copyright" reasons, but I have no clue how a video such as this could have copyrighted material in it.
 
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