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DNR Warden PC or RAS?

Spartacus

Spartacus

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Dec 13, 2009
Messages
1,185
Location
La Crosse, Wisconsin, USA
protias said:
Perhaps I should have kept reading eh? lol

I don't like this part though, "subject only to reasonable restrictions." WTF is reasonable?
Click to expand...

Its what our elected representatives have passed into law. Any law that is deemed to be unreasonable can be challenged such as the GFSZ challenge that WCI has pending now.
 
swfaninwi

swfaninwi

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2010
Messages
26
Location
Wisconsin
From the 2010-2011 Fishing regulations: http://dnr.wi.gov/fish/regulations/2010/documents/FishingRegs10-11_web.pdf

Page 7

Licenses:
to fish in any waters of this state without a Wisconsin fishing license and stamp privilege as required. You must have your fishing license with you when fishing and present it to a warden on request. Even waters with no public access (including most private ponds) are considered waters of the state and the appropriate license, tag, or stamp is still required.

Page 21

Warden Authority
Conservation wardens performing their duties may enter private land at any time. Wardens may also seize as evidence all fish taken or possessed in violation of the law, and any equipment used in connection with a violation. Wardens do not have the authority to enforce trespass laws.

There's something similar in the hunting regs, but I can’t find it.
 
P

phred

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johnny amish said:
This is where my question comes in. Is hunting alone a qualified reason to be checked? LEO can not check our license just because they saw us driving a car.
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I think this does it

29.024(1)
(1) Approvals required . Except as specifically provided in this chapter, ch. 169, or s. 95.55 (5), no person may hunt or trap in this state, fish in the waters of this state or engage in any of the activities regulated under this chapter unless the appropriate approval is issued to the person. A person shall carry the required approval with him or her at all times while hunting, trapping, or fishing or engaged in regulated activities unless otherwise required by this chapter or unless otherwise authorized or required by the department. A person shall exhibit the approval to the department or its wardens on demand.
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Russf

Russf

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Birdhunter said:
I've recieved second hand information that wardens at Bong Recreation Area are frisking individuals who are pheasant hunting to determine if they have untagged birds on their person. My question is whether or not the wardens need PC or RAS to frisk or pat down an individual? This would be related to open carry since one would be open carrying a shotgun while hunting.

Will the experts on the forum provide guidance?
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The wardens at Bong have violated my rights to many times. If I new my rights 5 years ago like i know them now i would have sued the a--hole warden there..

While duck hunting at bong in my blind that I rented for the day a warden or dnr ranger came up to us while we were getting our decoys out of the water. We left out guns in the blind and when we turned around the warden reached in and took our guns and unloaded them and used a magnet to see if our shells were steel. (NO PERMISSION was giving to him to do this). It was the third time that day a warden checked out our blind. ie.. our licenses and equipment each time. I will no longer hunt Bong. I hope some one sues the crap out of them sometime.......They violate peoples rights everyday at bong and so far no one has challenged them on it... If I ever do hunt there again (very doubtful) I will have audio and video of the entire day there and hopefully they will violate my rights again (I dont need to hope because they will).......I would love to sue the S.O.B s. (And they wonder why nobody likes or respects them).....

Department of the
Naturally
Retarded
 
Brass Magnet

Brass Magnet

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swfaninwi said:
From the 2010-2011 Fishing regulations:
Page 21

Warden Authority
Conservation wardens performing their duties may enter private land at any time. Wardens may also seize as evidence all fish taken or possessed in violation of the law, and any equipment used in connection with a violation. Wardens do not have the authority to enforce trespass laws.

There's something similar in the hunting regs, but I can’t find it.
Click to expand...

We need to find the statute that actually gives this power and look it up. The regulations books can be very misleading. For instance, the wardens "may" enter private land at any time if they have probable cause. That's backed up by statute... but can they really enter them at any time for any reason?
 
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P

phred

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Location
North Central Wisconsin, ,
Brass Magnet said:
OK, can anyone find the statute that gives the penalty with refusal to comply with a DNR wardens demand to show them your license? Or is it like the stop and identify law.... no teeth?
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Does this help?

29.951
29.951 Resisting a warden. Any person who assaults or otherwise resists or obstructs any warden in the performance of duty shall be subject to the penalty specified in s. 939.51 (3) (a).
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939.51(3)
(3) Penalties for misdemeanors are as follows:

939.51(3)(a)
(a) For a Class A misdemeanor, a fine not to exceed $10,000 or imprisonment not to exceed 9 months, or both.

939.51(3)(b)
(b) For a Class B misdemeanor, a fine not to exceed $1,000 or imprisonment not to exceed 90 days, or both.

939.51(3)(c)
(c) For a Class C misdemeanor, a fine not to exceed $500 or imprisonment not to exceed 30 days, or both.
Click to expand...
 
Brass Magnet

Brass Magnet

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Is it obstruction?

phred said:
Does this help?
Click to expand...

I don't see the nice case law below like the ID statute.

29.951 WILD ANIMALS AND PLANTS
29.951Resisting a warden. Any person who assaults or
otherwise resists or obstructs any warden in the performance of
duty shall be subject to the penalty specified in s. 939.51 (3) (a).
History: 1975 c. 365, 421; 1979 c. 34; 1981 c. 20; 1993 a. 137; 1997 a. 248 s. 683;
Stats. 1997 s. 29.951.
This section defines one crime with multiple modes of commission and comports
with the applicable fundamental fairness standard embodied in the due process
clause. Jury unanimity as to the manner in which a defendant violates it is not
required. Failure to specify the manner of violation did not deny the defendant his
due process right to a unanimous jury verdict. State v. Dearborn, 2008 WI App 131,
313 Wis. 2d 767, 758 N.W.2d 463, 07−1894. Affirmed on other grounds. 2010 WI
84, ___ Wis. 2d___, ___ N.W.2d ___, 07−1894.
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So, the question is whether a judge may use the caselaw for the obstructing an officer statute or if you would be striking new legal ground for failure to show a license?

Otherwise it appears you are correct. Too much power here.
 
P

phred

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Messages
768
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North Central Wisconsin, ,
Brass Magnet said:
I don't see the nice case law below like the ID statute.



So, the question is whether a judge may use the caselaw for the obstructing an officer statute or if you would be striking new legal ground for failure to show a license?

Otherwise it appears you are correct. Too much power here.
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Here is my search method.

Go to http://www.legis.state.wi.us/rsb/stats.html

and type in the statute number if you know it. (ex. 29.951)

Then I usually go to "Advanced Search" and type in some words like warden, power, search, license, ...

When presented with various "hits" I peruse them to see if I can find what I am looking for. If not, I modify the search parameters.

There may be other methods, but I haven't found them yet. I bet Doug is more efficient at this than I am.
 
B

boyscout399

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May 23, 2008
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Location
Lyman, Maine
It seems to me after reading the statutes that the officer needs probable cause to conduct a search of your person. Probable Cause is one step above Reasonable Suspicion in the continuum of evidence and a stop and frisk without Probable Cause would be a violation of your rights. They would have the ability to ask to examine your hunting licence if you are in fact engaged in hunting. If they asked for your drivers licence too, then you would have grounds to refuse that request as you are not driving and are under no obligation to carry photo ID.
 
Flipper

Flipper

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Apr 21, 2009
Messages
1,140
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, Wisconsin, USA
The elected representatives of the people give authority to state agencies. The agencies implement. Got a gripe about how the DNR through its wardens are implementing a state law? Contact your state senator and representative and ask them to introduce legislation to get the law changed.
 
D

Doug Huffman

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Jun 9, 2006
Messages
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Location
Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin,
phred said:
I bet Doug is more efficient at this than I am.
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Thanks but only different in that I have a 2008 copy in my computer. I weigh my commitment to WI-OCDO by whether or not I feel like buying another copy updated $100 pearls to strew before some swinish correspondents. I'm not going to spend money on laws for scofflaws.

Right now, I can buy a shotpot of e-books for $100.
 
LOERetired

LOERetired

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What about the 24 hours before deer season where you can't be in the woods with a gun

phred said:
Does this help?
Click to expand...

Anyone up to challenging the DNR rule that you can't be in the woods 24 hours / day before deer season. I believe it’s unconstitutional......I will, I'm not buying a hunting license, but, will be in the woods, open carrying my S&W .40 on my hip.

Don
 
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