Reality bites.

From time to time, the issue of carrying with an empty chamber vs one in the pipe comes up and gets quite a bit of responses, some of which can be heated. So I thought that this posting might be of interest to those who either carry like this or are thinking about doing so. As always comments are welcome.

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...-Gunfight-quot-Thinking-Outside-Your-Box-quot

SouthernBoy said:

From time to time, the issue of carrying with an empty chamber vs one in the pipe comes up and gets quite a bit of responses, some of which can be heated. So I thought that this posting might be of interest to those who either carry like this or are thinking about doing so. As always comments are welcome.

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Carrying with an empty cylinder is safer... for the other guy if you should find yourself in an armed confrontation. This is especially true here in Utah, where - although we are an OC state - if one does not have a CFP (CCW, or whatever they call a concealed permit in your neck of the woods) they must carry a wheelgun with the first chamber to come under the hammer empty, and the chamber of an auto-loader must be empty. Each instance requires two time-wasting mechanical actions before a round can be fired. A half-second of delay can be the difference between success and failure. There is no "second place winner" in a gunfight. (Keep in mind that a healthy adult male can cover 7yds in 1.5 seconds. If he is armed with a knife, and you can't draw, fire and hit your attacker in <1.5 seconds, that would be considered second place.) Pax...

I have one word for this subject "FREEDOM". Who and why do some people obsess so much how other people exercise freedom, it really is pathetic.

WalkingWolf said:

I have one word for this subject "FREEDOM". Who and why do some people obsess so much how other people exercise freedom, it really is pathetic.

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The writer of the article was offering his experience and opinions to those who requested his council. I think that is a fair contribution, don't you? I purposely kept my own opinions to myself with this post, but have expressed them before. I thought the writer's article was timely and informative to those who might be sitting on the fence with this one.

SouthernBoy said:

The writer of the article was offering his experience and opinions to those who requested his council. I think that is a fair contribution, don't you? I purposely kept my own opinions to myself with this post, but have expressed them before. I thought the writer's article was timely and informative to those who might be sitting on the fence with this one.

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Actually no I don't. I think people should mind their own business as to how people decide to carry. I think it goes against everything we want to accomplish by putting our nose in the air and try to push others by any means to change their liberty based on opinions. I usually am not so polite in public when these topics come up and tell people to "shove it where the sun don't shine".

As a trainer I get asked this all the time.

I get them the best advice I can.

I don't belive in carring a defensive pistol on your person with out a round chambered unless you have to according to the law. Or you have a handgun thats unsafe with one in the chamber then you should get rid of it and buy one that is.

A lot of defensive use is short and fast and can be a one handed affair for may reasons.

I have people tell me I am afraid of a loaded gun I say more training is in order.

After getting the information people are free to do as they see fit.

Personally I don't know any LEOs that carry there duty weapon with a unloaded chamber.

WalkingWolf did you.

Firearms Iinstuctor said:

As a trainer I get asked this all the time.

I get them the best advice I can.

I don't belive in carring a defensive pistol on your person with out a round chambered unless you have to according to the law. Or you have a handgun thats unsafe with one in the chamber then you should get rid of it and buy one that is.

A lot of defensive use is short and fast and can be a one handed affair for may reasons.

I have people tell me I am afraid of a loaded gun I say more training is in order.

After getting the information people are free to do as they see fit.

Personally I don't know any LEOs that carry there duty weapon with a unloaded chamber.

WalkingWolf did you.

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I is not a matter of what I did or did not do. It is a matter of minding my own business, and you minding yours. If asked is one thing, this bovine scatology of telling others how to do things is pathetic to say the least. We have supposed 2A folks telling people how they should dress, what holster to use and not use, bovine over concealed versus open. It is all carp and embarrassing to the mission of this site. It is each person's responsibility and right to do it as they please.

Let me make this more clear it is none of your business how I carried then, or now, and if that bugs you then get over it. I wish more people would stand up to this doodoo, but then that is their choice. We should be more concentrated on maintaining our rights instead of being anal and telling others how to exercise them.

WalkingWolf said:

We should be more concentrated on maintaining our rights instead of being anal and telling others how to exercise them.

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Truth.

I say encourage carry anyway anyone can.

Before I got my CPL I carried "Israeli" style I stopped though when an LEO I had a non related firearm encounter with told me to stop carrying like that, he didn't seem to concerned about the misdemeanors that may happen if I carried with one in the chamber.

After getting the information people are free to do as they see fit.


WalkingWolf didn't you read that line , your a bit touchy.

In a lots of your other posts you make lot ref to being former LEO or are you just playing a wantabe one.

Firearms Iinstuctor said:

After getting the information people are free to do as they see fit.


WalkingWolf didn't you read that line , your a bit touchy.

In a lots of your other posts you make lot ref to being former LEO or are you just playing a wantabe one.

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There is nothing touchy about telling a nosey busybody to buzz off.

I am a retired LEO, so are you just a wannabe open carry advocate?

Cut the carp and impotent intimidation, it really is pathetic on the internet, how somebody other than you exercises their rights is none of your business. Learn to control the only person you can and you may be much happier.

What don't you understand about.

THEY ARE FREE TO DO WHAT THEY SEE FIT.

Open carry, CCW carry, or what ever as long as it is legal.

Firearms Iinstuctor said:

What don't you understand about.

THEY ARE FREE TO DO WHAT THEY SEE FIT.

Open carry, CCW carry, or what ever as long as it is legal.

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I already knew that and so does everybody else. But it appears to bug the scat out of some, including you. So stop whining about it, let them do as they see fit without the finger pointing. We can't control others, so stop trying. What others and you are doing is the very same thing antis do about guns, they obsess over others decisions in life, like it is any of their business, it is not.

sudden valley gunner said:

Truth.

snip...Before I got my CPL I carried "Israeli" style I stopped though when an LEO I had a non related firearm encounter with told me to stop carrying like that, he didn't seem to concerned about the misdemeanors that may happen if I carried with one in the chamber.

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(i know, just truly know, deep in my soul i am going to regret asking but being a glutton for punishment...)

SVG what do you mean carried Israeli style?

wabbit

ncwabbit said:

(i know, just truly know, deep in my soul i am going to regret asking but being a glutton for punishment...)

SVG what do you mean carried Israeli style?

wabbit

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One not in the chamber. That way when I got into a vehicle I could pop the magazine out throw it on my passenger seat and be "legal" by my state law.

I only learned this phrase from others in my state forum, and could be using it wrong.

Southern Boy, sorry i disagree with one of your comments where you state kept your comments (biases) out!! you only pushed one article saying keep one in the chamber!! i see which way you are sitting on the fence...SO no your post was not a FAIR contribution to the on going discussion but rather a rehash of your bias...

shall we put it in another context...a brand new thread reader decides this is his very first thread to read...they are expecting a balanced discussion on a subject yet finds your post and article which states 'one should be kept in the chamber' w/o any discussion of the rational for not maintaining one in the chamber. Therefore, you have skewed their perception and no matter what anybody says...he read it here first and assimilated it and preaches it to all who will listen...all from your 'unbiased post'

bottom line Southern Boy, you have ingratiated your biases and eliminated the 'freedom' the new reader should have experienced in making up their own mind.

Firearm Instructor...do you now understand the difference...advise was not asked but rather a biased slant was presented w/o a counter.


wabbit

ps: Firearm Instructor...when giving advice...do you present the counter or from a perspective...or from the perspective 'what are you dumb' why would you carry a firearm w/o one chambered? i personally suspect your response is the latter...sigh

sudden valley gunner said:

One not in the chamber. That way when I got into a vehicle I could pop the magazine out throw it on my passenger seat and be "legal" by my state law.

I only learned this phrase from others in my state forum, and could be using it wrong.

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IMO from what I understand it is more than just carrying condition 3, but a training regiment to bring the arm to bear, while racking a round in a very prompt fashion. I carry condition 2 whether it is my lever action rifle, single shot rifle, DA revolvers or semi auto pistols. The only gun I do not carry condition 2 is my nagant rifle, I carry that condition 3. SA revolvers are carried with hammer between cylinders.

I have heard all the arguments and my response is always one similar to this "Take your opinion and shove it up the WAZOO!" I never ever tell another person how to carry, unless they work for me. Then they have a simple choice.

SVG is that still a law in your neck of the woods? I do not agree with laws telling people how to carry either.

WalkingWolf said:

IMO from what I understand it is more than just carrying condition 3, but a training regiment to bring the arm to bear, while racking a round in a very prompt fashion. I carry condition 2 whether it is my lever action rifle, single shot rifle, DA revolvers or semi auto pistols. The only gun I do not carry condition 2 is my nagant rifle, I carry that condition 3. SA revolvers are carried with hammer between cylinders.

I have heard all the arguments and my response is always one similar to this "Take your opinion and shove it up the WAZOO!" I never ever tell another person how to carry, unless they work for me. Then they have a simple choice.

SVG is that still a law in your neck of the woods? I do not agree with laws telling people how to carry either.

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Thanks for the info.

We can carry fully loaded openly no permits necessary, but must have a permit to carry "loaded" in a vehicle or to conceal a loaded firearm, from my recollection a magazine inserted into your firearm is considered loaded even with nothing in the chamber.

In my attempt not fall on the wrong side of the law before I got my government permission slip (something I really resisted doing, but caved due to the inconveniences not possessing one created) I too carried without one in the chamber.

I agree with you though that the berating of others for how they care is tiresome and unnecessary.

sudden valley gunner said:

Thanks for the info.

We can carry fully loaded openly no permits necessary, but must have a permit to carry "loaded" in a vehicle or to conceal a loaded firearm, from my recollection a magazine inserted into your firearm is considered loaded even with nothing in the chamber.

In my attempt not fall on the wrong side of the law before I got my government permission slip (something I really resisted doing, but caved due to the inconveniences not possessing one created) I too carried without one in the chamber.

I agree with you though that the berating of others for how they care is tiresome and unnecessary.

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Glad we do not have that restriction here. I would have to start looking for a DA 45 ACP revolver and some full moon clips if that ever happens here.

WalkingWolf said:

Actually no I don't. I think people should mind their own business as to how people decide to carry. I think it goes against everything we want to accomplish by putting our nose in the air and try to push others by any means to change their liberty based on opinions. I usually am not so polite in public when these topics come up and tell people to "shove it where the sun don't shine".

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Speaking of "freedom", there would be no need for internet forums or any other venue for the exchange of thoughts, ideas, experiences, questions, etc., if all of us had the "freedom" to believe one thing and only that one thing. When a question is posed, it is customary that an answer - although it may be the wrong answer in the eyes of some - be put forth. For example, I believe you have the right to express your desire to stifle people who disagree with you... but at the same time, I have the right to tell you that I perceive such comments as being in contravention of the same "freedom" you exercise and espouse. If there were no differences of opinion, each thread in the forum would be opened with a statement of "fact by acclamation", followed by a limited series of "Amens" from the designated (if uninspired) "amen section", and much snoring throughout the Internet. Actually, I doubt that anybody would even enter a forum more than once when they discovered it was founded upon the principle of "Agree with us, or be labeled a heretic and perish." Just my thoughts on the elephant in the room. Pax...

Gil223 said:

Speaking of "freedom", there would be no need for internet forums or any other venue for the exchange of thoughts, ideas, experiences, questions, etc., if all of us had the "freedom" to believe one thing and only that one thing. When a question is posed, it is customary that an answer - although it may be the wrong answer in the eyes of some - be put forth. For example, I believe you have the right to express your desire to stifle people who disagree with you... but at the same time, I have the right to tell you that I perceive such comments as being in contravention of the same "freedom" you exercise and espouse. If there were no differences of opinion, each thread in the forum would be opened with a statement of "fact by acclamation", followed by a limited series of "Amens" from the designated (if uninspired) "amen section", and much snoring throughout the Internet. Actually, I doubt that anybody would even enter a forum more than once when they discovered it was founded upon the principle of "Agree with us, or be labeled a heretic and perish." Just my thoughts on the elephant in the room. Pax...

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Your contention that I am trying to stifle anyone is bovine scatology. In fact I against stifling people and telling them how to do whatever they do. I am for free choice to carry. I did not point to any one specific type of carry as others have, and try to tell them it is unsafe, or whatever CACA. Again it is none of your business how other people carry, or mine. YOU are attempting to stifle MY free speech to get the message out that those who would infringe on others rights in any fashion should "BUGGER OFF!"

Hope that clears it up for you...