Bank Incident- with some good news at the end

Hi all,

It has been a while since I have posted on this forum, but I actually have something worth posting. I am a customer of FirstBank, along with most of my family. I just opened a new gun shop in Franktown (with the hope of an indoor range as soon as possible, but I will post more about that later with the moderator's permission). Anywhoo, my Brother In-Law is working with me now and open carries as I do 99.9999% of the time unless in Denver. He went into a FirstBank branch one morning last week before work and like I always do, had his pistol openly carried on his hip. As he was leaving, the bank officer took it upon herself to approach him and make him feel like a common criminal by stating in front of everyone that their banks are considered Federal Establishments and carrying a firearm in any manner inside them is a criminal offense.

Being caught off gaurd (and also being smart), he bowed out gracefully and told me what happened when he arrived at our shop. I have to admit, I was astonished at first, as I have gone into several of their branches countless times while I was open carrying (I find it is often easier than concealing- especially in warmer months). I immediately contacted Rocky Mountain Gun Owners and described what had just taken place. After a minute of research on their end, my thoughts were proven correct that they are federally insured but NOT considered a federal institution and that she had misinformed my Bro about him committing a crime. The people at RMGO wanted to know if I wanted to do something to report FirstBank as not a "gun friendly" company, but I figured I would give them the benefit of the doubt and give their Corporate office a chance to explain and rectify the situation. After a 5 minute phone call and a two minute wait, my phone rang with a bank officer from their headquarters calling me back. He was very nice (as I am accustomed to with this company), and he informed me that the officer of that particular branch was VERY mistaken and that he had already corrected her, and that he himself openly carries his pistol on occasion and that FirstBank's policy completely respects our 2nd Amendment rights.

About ten minutes later, my Bro's cell phone rang and it was the vary same branch officer calling to apologize for embarrassing him and that she was "misinformed" on the subject and that she had personal feelings for saying what she said. I also talked to her for a minute, saying that I'm sorry she felt that way, but that we will continue to carry our firearms with us as we always do and that she should not be concerned about law abiding citizens who are obviously not posing a "threat" to innocent people (what criminal would open carry anyways?). She was obviously a little upset and claimed that the company has plans to post no firearms signs on the doors. A quick call back from the gentleman on the phone earlier confirmed that THERE ARE NO PLANS IN THE FUTURE TO BAN FIREARMS AT FIRSTBANK. He was quite infuriated at what had been stated, but I asked him not to be too hard on her, as everyone has always been VERY nice and professional to me and my family for years, which is why I currently have no plans to stop giving them my business.

After all of this has happened (which probably took half as long to be over as it took for me to type all of this- sorry for the length by the way), I still have confidence in this company and I hope that they weren't too hard on her. I would rather someone become educated on our laws than made even more sour towards our right to self-defense (you catch more flies with honey sometimes ).

RMGO is watching the branches in case any of those dreaded signs do appear at any of the branches (which I highly doubt will happen at this point). And before anyone picks this whole thing apart, I have just stated the facts of what occurred in what I think was a sour experience turned pretty sweet in the end. I know the laws about being asked to leave private property, which is why my Bro did just that before the employee was corrected by the actual corporate owners who have the true say about what goes on in their establishments so that it won't happen again. Please take this as a positive outcome and understand that this was an EXTREMELY isolated incident for this company. Thanks for reading my novel of a post and I hope you at least enjoyed some of my 3 AM typing lol.

Have a great day!

Some people do not want to be educated - that's why there are dunce stools. Sounds as if the lady in question might need to spend some time there.


Good job though, well handled.

GAMER80116 said:

Hi all,

It has been a while since I have posted on this forum, but I actually have something worth posting. I am a customer of FirstBank, along with most of my family. I just opened a new gun shop in Franktown
<Snip>
And before anyone picks this whole thing apart, I have just stated the facts of what occurred

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Howdy Amigo!
Terrific report, and glad it worked out in your favor.

Now, if you PM me right away and let me know the location, I'll be down to visit your shop right away. I should have a few dollars to rub together, and may find myself in a good position to spend them in your new store. If nothing else, I feel we ought to supported our fellow Coloradoan businesses. I'm looking forward to seeing what ya'll have in stock!

Now, as to the second part...
Just prepare for those Bozo types to come over here and kick sand all over your post, take stuff out of context, inform you that you're pretty arrogant (i.e. Mr. Moneybags with a new business expecting to be enforcing your rights in a bank, private property rights and all...) etc, etc, Ad Nauseum. You've seen it here, and know that it ain't Coloradoans doing that nonsense, but every outta state twit with a keyboard is likely to circle around your post like buzzards over fresh roadkill because.... well.... because they're who and what they are. You can always spot 'em, always on the prowl for rotting carrion to pick clean to the bones with their smug, superior, better than us Colorado folk, know-it-alls with a chip on their shoulder and an attitude of effete pseudo-intellectualism who won't spend a dime in your business or minute in working to promote gun rights in Colorado. I'm pretty sure they'll be along, regardless of how well ya'll handled the situation or your posted information.

Anyhow, I've digressed once again.

PM me with your particulars and I'll visit your shop right away. I'm pretty sure we can also get Keens to come along for the visit, or maybe drag him off the ranch on Saturday to check out your new place.

Be forewarned however.... Franktown ain't all that big, so I might just take a ride on down there you down on my own. How tough can it be?

Best of luck with the new shop,
Brightest Blessings for a profitable and successful business,
M-Taliesin

Well handled. That goes for both you and your brother.

I don't know which branch of Firstbank you were dealing with, but there are about 3 here in lakewood that I OC into about once a week. I have never had any problems with the people who work at any of these.
Sounds like either way, you will be slowly converting the ones in that particular branch as well.

Right on.

I bank at FirstBank too, and while I normally CC more often not these days and therefore have no personal experience OCing in any of their branches but I know there have been previous threads stating that they are respectful of our 2A rights and your report just reiterated that.

I'll also visit your shop with my girlfriend when we're out and about on the motorcycle this summer, you're too far away for me to ever be a regular customer but we will definitely stop by once in awhile.

GAMER80116 said:

The bank officer took it upon herself to approach him and make him feel like a common criminal by stating in front of everyone that their banks are considered Federal Establishments and carrying a firearm in any manner inside them is a criminal offense.

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That bank officer is seriously misinformed. First, only the following is considered federal property:
- Bureau of Land Management
- United States Forest Service
- United States Fish and Wildlife Service
- National Park Service
- Bureau of Indian Affairs
- United States Department of Defense
- - United States Army Corps of Engineers
- United States Bureau of Reclamation
- Tennessee Valley Authority

As most of us are well aware, carrying of firearms on most federal property is not a criminal offense. If anything, it's well protected, particularly throughout our national park system.

Second, FirstBank is NOT a "Federal Building," which is considered private property of the federal government, and in which the carry of firearms is usually prohibited. you can find a relatively complete list of Federal Buildings, here.

Third, if you're talking about 1stBank, also known as FirstBank, they're a privately-owned commercial bank founded here in Colorado in 1963. Like all banks, they participate in the Federal Reserve Banking System, primarily to clear funds through the the Reserve's Clearinghouse function. That does NOT make them a federal establishment! It simply makes them a customer of the Federal Reserve System. I'm a customer of the Federal Reserve System! That doesn't make me federal property.

I immediately contacted Rocky Mountain Gun Owners and described what had just taken place. After a minute of research on their end, my thoughts were proven correct that they are federally insured but NOT considered a federal institution and that she had misinformed my Bro about him committing a crime.

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Yes, the FDIC is another federal program, but they're right - that doesn't make an FDIC participant "federal establishment.

The people at RMGO wanted to know if I wanted to do something to report FirstBank as not a "gun friendly" company, but I figured I would give them the benefit of the doubt and give their Corporate office a chance to explain and rectify the situation. After a 5 minute phone call and a two minute wait, my phone rang with a bank officer from their headquarters calling me back. He was very nice (as I am accustomed to with this company), and he informed me that the officer of that particular branch was VERY mistaken and that he had already corrected her, and that he himself openly carries his pistol on occasion and that FirstBank's policy completely respects our 2nd Amendment rights.

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Cool! That's rare that any institution will receive a call back so rapidly! I'm sure a lot of it has to do with the fact he himself exercises our 2A rights.

About ten minutes later, my Bro's cell phone rang and it was the vary same branch officer calling to apologize for embarrassing him and that she was "misinformed" on the subject and that she had personal feelings for saying what she said.

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That's even more rare. Usually matters are handled internally, and the only thing you'll ever hear about the person creating the incident is that the matter is "under review."

I also talked to her for a minute, saying that I'm sorry she felt that way, but that we will continue to carry our firearms with us as we always do and that she should not be concerned about law abiding citizens who are obviously not posing a "threat" to innocent people (what criminal would open carry anyways?).

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You handled this very well!

She was obviously a little upset and claimed that the company has plans to post no firearms signs on the doors.

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If she's the branch manager, she can make this decision. Unless...

A quick call back from the gentleman on the phone earlier confirmed that THERE ARE NO PLANS IN THE FUTURE TO BAN FIREARMS AT FIRSTBANK.

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Unless the district manager overrides her decision!

He was quite infuriated at what had been stated, but I asked him not to be too hard on her, as everyone has always been VERY nice and professional to me and my family for years, which is why I currently have no plans to stop giving them my business.

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I'm truly at a loss of what our country is coming to when people like librarians get a wild anti-gun hair of their *** and take it upon themselves to encroach on EVERYONE's civil rights without any respect whatsoever for those rights. It's almost as if they say to themselves, "Well, I don't care what they think. I don't think it's a good idea so I'll just deny them their rights, and to hell with what they think about it. It's a lot like Pelosi's comment along the lines of believing the masses are too stupid to think so she'll just make their decisions for them. I find it pompous, arrogant, very disrespectful, and downright un-American!

After all of this has happened (which probably took half as long to be over as it took for me to type all of this- sorry for the length by the way), I still have confidence in this company and I hope that they weren't too hard on her.

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While I'm glad at least one cooler head in the company prevailed, I hope they do come down hard on her, beginning with a letter of reprimand, along the lines of her having no business or authority to set, much less contremand corporate policy, and about how the firm will respect the full rights of its customers - ALL rights, and not just the ones with which she happens to feel comfortable.

I would rather someone become educated on our laws than made even more sour towards our right to self-defense (you catch more flies with honey sometimes ).

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Well, yes. However, they should also let her know in no uncertain terms her disrespect of your brother's civil rights will not be tolerated.

RMGO is watching the branches in case any of those dreaded signs do appear at any of the branches (which I highly doubt will happen at this point). And before anyone picks this whole thing apart...

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Oops! Too late... Actually, mine is more of an appreciation of the individual points.

...I have just stated the facts of what occurred in what I think was a sour experience turned pretty sweet in the end. I know the laws about being asked to leave private property, which is why my Bro did just that before the employee was corrected by the actual corporate owners who have the true say about what goes on in their establishments so that it won't happen again. Please take this as a positive outcome and understand that this was an EXTREMELY isolated incident for this company. Thanks for reading my novel of a post and I hope you at least enjoyed some of my 3 AM typing lol.

Have a great day!

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Same to you, GAMER80116!

Kingfish said:

The difference is that he was not expecting preferential treatment because he wears an expensive hat, boots and gun. YOU came here bitching that the little twerp at the Safeway should have known you and taken your antiquated method of payment without question.

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Howdy Kingfish!
My next visit to a Safeway was across town, spent 20 and got 80 cash back, and as usual with that chain, not given any additional grief as took place at the one I frequent most often.

I am a Coloradoan, so I come here and talk about something that took place in Colorado on a Colorado board, amongst my fellow Coloradoans. You ain't a Coloradoan, so your opinion of any Coloradoan, or what takes place in Colorado, is worth very little to Coloradoans, especially when you offer nothing positive in your post apart from your final line, which is the only 'on topic' part of your post.

That the method of payment is, in your opinion, antiquated doesn't eliminate that 70 billion such transactions take place every year.

The thread in question is in regard to a new gun store and the experience the owner had when dealing with a specific bank.

If you are comfortable with handing over your I.D. to anybody who happens to be standing behind a counter at the time, including someone possibly (if not probably) in this country illegally, please... be my guest! By all means, do that.

Thank you for your attention.
Blessings,
M-Taliesin

M-Taliesin said:

--snip--

I am a Coloradoan, so I come here and talk about something that took place in Colorado on a Colorado board, amongst my fellow Coloradoans. You ain't a Coloradoan, so your opinion of any Coloradoan, or what takes place in Colorado, is worth very little to Coloradoans, especially when you offer nothing positive in your post apart from your final line, which is the only 'on topic' part of your post.

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In no way does this represent the official attitude of the OCDO administration - in fact quite the opposite is the case.

The entire forum, including all state sub-forums, is open to all without limitation.

I would frame THE ISSUE as being that nagging old problem of some people simply "don't like" other people engaging in certain behavior even though it is non-threatening, not a crime, and actually serves to enhance the ambient public safety levels for others in the encompassed location.

The "likes" and "dislikes" shared, or expressed by various members of society may or may not be a worthy topic for debate related to legislative action (or non-action) depending upon the body politic involved, but the mere fact that somebody doesn't like a given behavior does not constitute any legal or moral authority to suppress that behavior.

Whether the " Don't-liker " is wearing a badge, or a corporate I.D. tag - their likes and dislikes don't constitute law, or corporate policy.

"Bullying" ( in the public schools) has been high on the discussion meter lately. I would submit that "bullying" takes many forms in our society, and abuse of authority whether in the market place, or on the roadside is still "bullying".

How it could have been better...

Imagine, when the branch manager called, calling her boss and conferencing him in with her. "Yes sir, your branch manager says you are considering posting your branches. Why would you lie to me about your bank being pro-2A? I have her on the line right now..."


Then break out the popcorn! :banana:

Grapeshot said:

In no way does this represent the official attitude of the OCDO administration - in fact quite the opposite is the case.

The entire forum, including all state sub-forums, is open to all without limitation.

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Howdy Grapeshot!
unfortunately, the mods have been conspicuous in their absence, particuarly as pertains to rule 6.
Where have the mods been when insulting remarks are made to members of the Colorado delegation?
Where have the mods been when a newcomer to open carry asks a question that is on his mind only to get flamed?
Why have the mods not upheld a reasonable degree of civility toward other members?
Why is name calling and demeaning of members by other members tolerated?
I ain't being uppity, but this isn't the first time the question has been asked.
It deserves a serious examination. Rules without any sort of consequence are nothing more than suggestions, freely ignored by some who have come to the Colorado board with little or nothing positive to contribute, but only to slam others.
And if the rules will not be upheld by the mods, What then?

Thank you.
Blessings,
M-Taliesin

Seems like only yesterday...

Kingfish said:

The difference is that he was not expecting preferential treatment because he wears an expensive hat, boots and gun. YOU came here bitching that the little twerp at the Safeway should have known you and taken your antiquated method of payment without question.


GREAT job OP. Sounds like you handled it perfectly. Good luck on your venture.

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Man, I had to clean my screen after I read that (the first part that is). Usually I just sit here and drool but that made me forcefully expel!

And I agree that the situation was handled just fine. It's always been my experience that debating with managers/assistant managers is a waste of energy. If there's a chance corporate is on your side that is surely the way to go.

M-Taliesin said:

Now, as to the second part...
Just prepare for those Bozo types to come over here and kick sand all over your post, take stuff out of context, inform you that you're pretty arrogant (i.e. Mr. Moneybags with a new business expecting to be enforcing your rights in a bank, private property rights and all...) etc, etc, Ad Nauseum. You've seen it here, and know that it ain't Coloradoans doing that nonsense, but every outta state twit with a keyboard is likely to circle around your post like buzzards over fresh roadkill because.... well.... because they're who and what they are. You can always spot 'em, always on the prowl for rotting carrion to pick clean to the bones with their smug, superior, better than us Colorado folk, know-it-alls with a chip on their shoulder and an attitude of effete pseudo-intellectualism who won't spend a dime in your business or minute in working to promote gun rights in Colorado. I'm pretty sure they'll be along, regardless of how well ya'll handled the situation or your posted information.

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Sour grapes? Or Freud's Theory of Transference?

M-Taliesin said:

Howdy Grapeshot!
unfortunately, the mods have been conspicuous in their absence, particuarly as pertains to rule 6.
Where have the mods been when insulting remarks are made to members of the Colorado delegation?
Where have the mods been when a newcomer to open carry asks a question that is on his mind only to get flamed?
Why have the mods not upheld a reasonable degree of civility toward other members?
Why is name calling and demeaning of members by other members tolerated?
I ain't being uppity, but this isn't the first time the question has been asked.
It deserves a serious examination. Rules without any sort of consequence are nothing more than suggestions, freely ignored by some who have come to the Colorado board with little or nothing positive to contribute, but only to slam others.
And if the rules will not be upheld by the mods, What then?

Thank you.
Blessings,
M-Taliesin

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Agreed, sugar. Grapeshot can start with your posts.

Originally Posted by Grapeshot

In no way does this represent the official attitude of the OCDO administration - in fact quite the opposite is the case.

The entire forum, including all state sub-forums, is open to all without limitation.

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M-Taliesin said:

Howdy Grapeshot!
unfortunately, the mods have been conspicuous in their absence, particuarly as pertains to rule 6.
Where have the mods been when insulting remarks are made to members of the Colorado delegation?
Where have the mods been when a newcomer to open carry asks a question that is on his mind only to get flamed?
Why have the mods not upheld a reasonable degree of civility toward other members?
Why is name calling and demeaning of members by other members tolerated?
I ain't being uppity, but this isn't the first time the question has been asked.
It deserves a serious examination. Rules without any sort of consequence are nothing more than suggestions, freely ignored by some who have come to the Colorado board with little or nothing positive to contribute, but only to slam others.
And if the rules will not be upheld by the mods, What then?

Thank you.
Blessings,
M-Taliesin

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Your reply does not relate in context to the quote wherein I was responding to your derisive remarks about posters who were not from Colorado. Instead you now switch to questioning application of rule 6 - going further still off topic.

It is the direction of the administration that posters exercise a great degree of self-moderation. When and if this fails, there are the more traditional methods available - I'm sure you have seen the results in more severe cases. What I do not do is discuss specific action/response taken with regard to an individual user publicly, excepting when that user openly/publicly posts and is the principal.

Rule 6 has some defined examples, but also includes the spirit and intent of responsible, non-insulting and non-attacking, references to others. We must first all look to ourselves to avoid such unnecessary verbiage. Beyond the blatant disregard, what I particularly see is that some will invite negative responses (stir the pot) by innuendo and attitude - that is IMO juvenile and hardly responsible. They then claim innocence and point their finger at others - those that do this are part of the problem.

Appreciate your thoughts on moderation. Do we really want more authoritarian control? Suggest that sometimes less is more, and that one should be careful for what is wished - it just might come true, but most likely on an individual basis.

Grapeshot said:

Your reply does not relate in context to the quote wherein I was responding to your derisive remarks about posters who were not from Colorado. Instead you now switch to questioning application of rule 6 - going further still off topic.

Appreciate your thoughts on moderation. Do we really want more authoritarian control? Suggest that sometimes less is more, and that one should be careful for what is wished - it just might come true, but most likely on an individual basis.

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Howdy Grapeshot!
Just for clarification, and to clear any misunderstanding, I'd like to close this part of the thread by pointing out that we welcome folks from other states posting here in the Colorado board. I've stated so in other threads, and I welcome positive and helpful posters from anywhere. What I find objectionable are folks who come with no useful purpose and only flame those who come to the Colorado board who (as a rule) are folks in Colorado on the receiving end of such posts that are insulting, belittling and demeaning. What you viewed as 'derisive' of folks outside Colorado posting here is an inaccurate translation of my support for my fellow Coloradoans. I haven't seen much flaming by Coloradoans, and when it occurs, it is unwelcome and unnecessary... along with being the trademark of certain posters who are not Coloradoans. I wasn't dismissive or derissive of out-of-state posters. I was intending to be derissive of out-of-state posters who come to start a flame war or similar 'trolling' behavior, while at the same time backing Coloradoans who seem to be the target of insults, demeaning and belittling language found posted in contravention to rule 6. I don't go around other boards to insult people, and really don't much like it when there are some that feel impunity to do so here.

I know you'd like to have folks be a community around a common purpose, united to forward the cause of open carry. I applaud the admins and hope to be helpful to that aim. I talk about OC with folks in my community frequently, and often direct them to the OCDO forum. When they join, and their first post is greeted with flames.... the situation runs contrary to your objective, and the recipient of that inappropriate response to their first or second post, just gets turned off right out of the chute. I can show you two posters who arrived here only to be set-upon with their first posts. If we hope to grow the membership, and forward OC in American states such as Colorado, maybe the people who enjoy hanging around with intent only to set-upon others might need handled.

OCDO is a terrific resource for open carry. It is a community, more so than many another, connected at the hip. (Yes, that was an obvious pun, for which I offer no particular excuse.) We Coloradoans have met from time to time, and everybody I've met has voiced a desire to grow OC in Colorado, and to encourage their friends and neighbors to either join us in open carry, or at least help to promote our freedom to do so in a positive manner.

Like it or not, those who set-upon newcomers or comport themselves in a manner hostile to civility will not help open carry. We divide our numbers at our own peril.

I do not believe asking for decorum and respectful behavior is crossing any lines of civility.
In fact, I believe it is of necessity!

That you took time to respond thoughtfully is appreciated and I surely do thank you for taking the time.

I hope this clarifies what my intention was. We hosted a 'meet and greet' for Red Dawg who is from out of state and we consider him an honorary Coloradoan. But he has always posted respectfully and thoughtfully. Others who have stated they'll be passing through our state are routinely offered an opportunity to meet up and share a meal or some such as they visit our state. You can find those examples right here on this board.

What we do not appreciate, as nobody should be made to endure, are those who drop onto our board with no other intent other than to abuse Coloradoans. That's the problem. That's what isn't appreciated by Coloradoans by folks from elsewhere who feel our people are fodder for insult and belittling. That's what I hoped to address. It is an ongoing and chronic problem and needs to be coped with.

I believe that there should be some middle ground between a heavy handed degree of moderation and none at all. Simple compliance with the rules of the forum isn't, in my opinion, asking too much. When the only purpose of a response is to insult and flame the poster, it should be clear enough the rule is violated. In that regard, I (among others) would appreciate your taking that sort of thing in hand. You've heard from others before on this particular issue, and all anybody is asking is that ya'll step up the level of civility so that we can say with a straight face "an armed society is a polite society" without some citizen pointing to our forum to illustrate their opinion is contrary!

Thank you for your thoughtful consideration.
Blessings,
M-Taliesin

Man! I REALLY want to say something like, "Colorado sucks!", but I can't bring myself to do it!

:lol::banghead:

M-Taliesin said:

You ain't a Coloradoan, so your opinion of any Coloradoan, or what takes place in Colorado, is worth very little to Coloradoans, especially when you offer nothing positive in your post apart from your final line, which is the only 'on topic' part of your post.

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Grapeshot said:

In no way does this represent the official attitude of the OCDO administration - in fact quite the opposite is the case.

The entire forum, including all state sub-forums, is open to all without limitation.

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I'll echo my understanding of M-T's post. No, we don't have a border guard patrolling the CO subforum. No, we don't believe our threads are closed to non-Coloradans. Y'all are welcome. Here, have a plate of Rocky Mountain Oysters and a green chili smothered burrito and one of our fine microbrews. But, if you're going to breeze through just to make an @$$ of yourself for the sake of your own ego rather than being friendlylike for the sake of the OCDO community, there is nothing the mods can do to make us CARE two bits about your posts. You can post 'em, doesn't mean we'll find 'em worth reading.

MyWifeSaidYes said:

Man! I REALLY want to say something like, "Colorado sucks!", but I can't bring myself to do it!

:lolbang headad:

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well then I'm glad don't live here, we have enough people to deal with. If Colorado sucks so much why are interested in reading our forums why are you so set on stating something that you have no idea about? Have you lived here for a extended amount of time? do you work or have family in state? i just am curious where you got opinion from? sounds to me like just another hater on our beautiful state. sorry ohio cant be Colorado, well no I'm not i love it here and hope to god we never end up like some other states out there that are so willing to violate our rights.

Semper Fi!
~Wolf~