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TPD Suicide by cop scenario.

conandan

Regular Member
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Nov 5, 2012
Messages
235
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florida
You point a weapon at a cop you will get shoot. If she said she would hurt herself or others the police have to check it out. I'm not saying she should have been shot there's always other ways to handle a situation. But some officers are trigger happy. I would look at all options before shooting someone.
 

WalkingWolf

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Jul 31, 2011
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11,930
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North Carolina
Baffles me why people who want to die, pull others into the mix. Shame they couldn't taser her just to not let her have her way. But they were justified to use force to defend themselves.
 

pkbites

Regular Member
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Jun 2, 2006
Messages
773
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Milwaukee, Wisconsin, ,
I'm not saying she should have been shot there's always other ways to handle a situation. But some officers are trigger happy. I would look at all options before shooting someone.

Shame they couldn't taser her just to not let her have her way.


Am I freaking hallucinating? A subject has a drawn handgun in the low ready position, refuses several orders by uniformed police to drop it, and conandan would look for "other ways to handle a situation".

That kind of naive thinking is how good (but stupid) people end up dead!

A police officer shooting someone with a drawn weapon who ignores orders to drop it is not being 'trigger happy".
 

WalkingWolf

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Am I freaking hallucinating? A subject has a drawn handgun in the low ready position, refuses several orders by uniformed police to drop it, and conandan would look for "other ways to handle a situation".

That kind of naive thinking is how good (but stupid) people end up dead!

A police officer shooting someone with a drawn weapon who ignores orders to drop it is not being 'trigger happy".

I agree with what you are saying, but still it is what she wanted. A taser will drop a person most times faster than a bullet, most determined people can continue a fight after being shot, even if they are dying. She really had some doubt about killing herself or she would have done it herself, and not involved others.
 

conandan

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Nov 5, 2012
Messages
235
Location
florida
Am I freaking hallucinating? A subject has a drawn handgun in the low ready position, refuses several orders by uniformed police to drop it, and conandan would look for "other ways to handle a situation".

That kind of naive thinking is how good (but stupid) people end up dead!

A police officer shooting someone with a drawn weapon who ignores orders to drop it is not being 'trigger happy".

My reasoning for looking for another way was the fact an innocent man next to her. Who by the way got shot and fortunately survived. To many times when police fire on a suspect innocent people get shot as well. Using a taser or at least give the man next to her the opportunity to clear the line of fire.
 

Citizen

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Nov 15, 2006
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Fairfax Co., VA
Why would the OPer give ammunition to anti-gunners by characterizing the deceased as an OCer?

To illustrate by contrast, why didn't the OPer title the thread: Three OCers gun down another OCer? Any thread involving uniformed police officers could be titled "OCers..."

Why not give the anti-gunners some real ammo: "Three OCers gun down woman who desperately needed mental help."

Or, "OCers invade Iraq and Afghanistan" Or, ....



I think y'all get my point.
 

pkbites

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2006
Messages
773
Location
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, ,
My reasoning for looking for another way was the fact an innocent man next to her. Who by the way got shot and fortunately survived. To many times when police fire on a suspect innocent people get shot as well.



This falls under the "greater danger theory" in that it is more dangerous not to act than to act. Under your way everybody could have eventually ended up dead, shot by that woman.


Officers arrived, observed a woman draw a firearm and begin to raise it up, gave her orders to drop it, she would not comply. There wasn't time to sit back, stoke up a doobie, sing kumbaya, and collectively think out a "better way, per citizen conandan.":rolleyes:

You are ignorant, obviously untrained, and I am thankful you are not a cop. I wouldn't want someone with this hippy mentality backing me up. There was an uncompliant subject projecting a lethal threat, and it needed to be stopped. The end!
 

conandan

Regular Member
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Nov 5, 2012
Messages
235
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florida
You are ignorant, obviously untrained, and I am thankful you are not a cop. I wouldn't want someone with this hippy mentality backing me up.

Attacking me and passing judgement like this tells me a lot about you...

You are entitled to your opinion, keep in mind neither one of us were there. If thinking their are other options to keep innocent people from being shot as well is having a hippie mentality, well.. say what you want.

I never said the leos were wrong.
 

FreeInAZ

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
2,508
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Secret Bunker
Re: Open Carrier shot and killed by TPD. Suicide by cop scenario.

This was NOT a OC incident it was a clear suicide incident. Best way to get police to shoot you = point a firearm at them. Only way a taser could have been (possibly) deployed would have been at distance via xrep shotgun round which most patrol units do not carry and has a maximum range of only 100 feet. This is still too much distance to close should round not be effective before woman could fire on police or others. Standard tasers maximum range is 35 feet (awful close to engage a pistol pointing person). With the information we have at this time it appears police had little choice here.
[video=youtube;aBYtUCSJAmw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBYtUCSJAmw[/video]
 

WalkingWolf

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Messages
11,930
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North Carolina
This was NOT a OC incident it was a clear suicide incident. Best way to get police to shoot you = point a firearm at them. Only way a taser could have been (possibly) deployed would have been at distance via xrep shotgun round which most patrol units do not carry and has a maximum range of only 100 feet. This is still too much distance to close should round not be effective before woman could fire on police or others. Standard tasers maximum range is 35 feet (awful close to engage a pistol pointing person). With the information we have at this time it appears police had little choice here.
[video=youtube;aBYtUCSJAmw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBYtUCSJAmw[/video]

I didn't see anywhere in the linked news report where distance was mentioned, if I missed could you point it out? The officers were justified, but then also if they were at a greater distance the first concern should be cover, they must not teach that in the academy anymore. If someone is suicidal they usually are not trying to kill a cop, stalling if possible, is the best option. Nobody knows but the officers or the deceased whether it was possible.
 

joanie

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Mar 27, 2013
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306
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..
I don't believe this story, she had something big on the cops and proof to back it up so they killed her and came up with this bogus story.
 

SFCRetired

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
1,764
Location
Montgomery, Alabama, USA
Not to defend the cops here, but I will guarantee you that, should you point a weapon at this old, non-LEO type, I will take the appropriate action.

None of us were there, none of us know the distances involved, and none of us know whether or not the cops had any other viable options. Personal opinion: This looks, from the available information, very much like another "suicide by cop". No, Joanie, I do not buy into your particular theory.
 

davidmcbeth

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Jan 14, 2012
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16,167
Location
earth's crust
Not to defend the cops here, but I will guarantee you that, should you point a weapon at this old, non-LEO type, I will take the appropriate action.

None of us were there, none of us know the distances involved, and none of us know whether or not the cops had any other viable options. Personal opinion: This looks, from the available information, very much like another "suicide by cop". No, Joanie, I do not buy into your particular theory.

I think that this would go for everyone ... not just cops, right?
 

MKEgal

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Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
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in front of my computer, WI
conandan said:
Using a taser or at least give the man next to her the opportunity to clear the line of fire.
Ya think that maybe when he saw police directing their attention his way, then they drew their guns, then they were shouting his way, and maybe he saw the woman next to him draw her gun, that he'd have the sense god gave a kumquat and at least dive for the ground.

conandan said:
You are ignorant, obviously untrained, and I am thankful you are not a cop.
I wouldn't want someone with this hippy mentality backing me up.
If you're referring to pkbites, you're completely wrong.
And wasn't it you, conan, who was the "peace, love, & tasers" supporter?
If she was pointing, or was attempting to point, a gun at the officers, they had no time to do anything else.
(I will still doubt to the extent that I say "if she was pointing", but once dashcams come out I think they'll back up the officers.)
 

FreeInAZ

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
2,508
Location
Secret Bunker
Re: Open Carrier shot and killed by TPD. Suicide by cop scenario.

I didn't see anywhere in the linked news report where distance was mentioned, if I missed could you point it out? The officers were justified, but then also if they were at a greater distance the first concern should be cover, they must not teach that in the academy anymore. If someone is suicidal they usually are not trying to kill a cop, stalling if possible, is the best option. Nobody knows but the officers or the deceased whether it was possible.

That was part of my point. The question of tasers was raised. Not knowing the distances and using a taser against a armed person is a recipe for harm to officers and bystanders. Someone who has stated they want to die is at best troubled at worst wanting to take as many people with them as they can. We don't know & I would speculate neither did the responding officers. The one person who knew their true intent is dead. And a family somewhere is reeling from their loss. Let's pray for them and be glad no others lost their lives.
 

Have Gun - Will Carry

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2010
Messages
290
Location
Kenosha County, Wisconsin
f you're referring to pkbites, you're completely wrong.

Actually, he was quoting PKB from the post above, but Conan didn't use any quotes - very confusing.

This falls under the "greater danger theory" in that it is more dangerous not to act than to act. Under your way everybody could have eventually ended up dead, shot by that woman.

Officers arrived, observed a woman draw a firearm and begin to raise it up, gave her orders to drop it, she would not comply. There wasn't time to sit back, stoke up a doobie, sing kumbaya, and collectively think out a "better way, per citizen conandan.":rolleyes:

You are ignorant, obviously untrained, and I am thankful you are not a cop. I wouldn't want someone with this hippy mentality backing me up. There was an uncompliant subject projecting a lethal threat, and it needed to be stopped. The end!

You are ignorant, obviously untrained, and I am thankful you are not a cop. I wouldn't want someone with this hippy mentality backing me up.

Attacking me and passing judgement like this tells me a lot about you...

You are entitled to your opinion, keep in mind neither one of us were there. If thinking their are other options to keep innocent people from being shot as well is having a hippie mentality, well.. say what you want.

I never said the leos were wrong.
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
3,428
Location
northern wis
You point a weapon at a cop you will get shoot. If she said she would hurt herself or others the police have to check it out. I'm not saying she should have been shot there's always other ways to handle a situation. But some officers are trigger happy. I would look at all options before shooting someone.

I know of two officers personally who thought they could talk a suicide by cop out of doing so because they dealt with him before.

Ones dead the other is in a wheel chair for the rest of his life paralyzed from the neck down. That little 32 auto work just fine. Shooter dead any way shot by the other officers on scene after he shot the two officers. They should have shot the BG a heck of a lot sooner IMHO>

No thank you. You don't listen you point a firearm at me I am going to take appropriate action.
 
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