• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

How many people here OC without a CPL?

futurepopo

New member
Joined
Feb 16, 2012
Messages
3
Location
Hastings, Mi
Just curious how many users OC without a CPL, and how much of a inconvience it is putting it in the trunk when you leave the establishment? I'm new to the open carry policy, and purchasing my first handgun on Monday.
 

xmanhockey7

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
1,195
I do because I'm not yet 21. It sucks having load and unload but it's just something you have to do. I'm to the point where I'm used to it. Make sure you take the case all the way out of the trunk, then take the gun out of the case, then load it and holster. Same thing for putting it back in but pretty much in reverse.
 

GlockIt

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2012
Messages
45
Location
Warren, Michigan
I do. Im fairly new to the oc world myself.

Im waiting to take my cpl class at the end of this month.

I havent yet took my gun out in the car, only oc while walking my dog.

I asked alot of questions on the forum about transporting and oc without cpl,
seems straight forward. Im sure its a bit of a hassel to have to go through the
whole trunk routine every time to carry but its whats gotta be done without a cpl.

There are alot of thin lines when doing so. Becareful, before you go out and transport to oc
check out the forum and ask questions if you need to.

There is alot of little laws that could jam you up when you dont have a cpl.

I found alot of people here will give great advice when it comes to this subject.
 

Bronson

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
2,126
Location
Battle Creek, Michigan, USA
I found alot of people here will give great advice when it comes to this subject.

Here's the best advice anybody will give you here....

Don't trust our advice. Go read and study the laws for yourself. Then ask some questions and go study them again to make sure what we say matches what you've read. If it doesn't match up you then have to figure out if we're wrong or if you read it wrong.

Sometimes we will tell people wrong stuff just for fun. Ok, that last bit is a complete fabrication. Or is it? The point is you should always take everything we write with a pound of salt because we're just some people on the interwebs that you don't know and we may be completely full of crap. It just so happens that we're probably not, but we may be :p

Bronson
 

GlockIt

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2012
Messages
45
Location
Warren, Michigan
Here's the best advice anybody will give you here....

Don't trust our advice. Go read and study the laws for yourself. Then ask some questions and go study them again to make sure what we say matches what you've read. If it doesn't match up you then have to figure out if we're wrong or if you read it wrong.

Sometimes we will tell people wrong stuff just for fun. Ok, that last bit is a complete fabrication. Or is it? The point is you should always take everything we write with a pound of salt because we're just some people on the interwebs that you don't know and we may be completely full of crap. It just so happens that we're probably not, but we may be :p

Bronson


The nerve of some people geez.;)
 

DetroitBiker

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Messages
318
Location
USA
Just curious how many users OC without a CPL, and how much of a inconvience it is putting it in the trunk when you leave the establishment? I'm new to the open carry policy, and purchasing my first handgun on Monday.

I have been Open carrying since the end of December without a CPL and its a pain in the ass.

I dont even bother bringing my gun if Im just running up to Meijers. no point in just leaving it in the case :(
 

GlockIt

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2012
Messages
45
Location
Warren, Michigan
I have been Open carrying since the end of December without a CPL and its a pain in the ass.

I dont even bother bringing my gun if Im just running up to Meijers. no point in just leaving it in the case :(

Is it legal to even have the gun cased in the car, in a parking lot of a business that
has a liquor licences without cpl?

Or is is just ilegal to be carrying on persons in the parking lot?:question:
 
Last edited:

xmanhockey7

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
1,195
I have been Open carrying since the end of December without a CPL and its a pain in the ass.

I dont even bother bringing my gun if Im just running up to Meijers. no point in just leaving it in the case :(

Legally you can't keep the gun in your vehicle in Meijers parking lot. Look up 750.234d for the parking lot exemption. Let me know when you find it.
 
B

Bikenut

Guest
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(4l...g.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-750-234d

THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 328 of 1931

750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
Sec. 234d.

(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:

(a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.
(b) A church or other house of religious worship.
(c) A court.
(d) A theatre.
(e) A sports arena.
(f) A day care center.
(g) A hospital.
(h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

(2) This section does not apply to any of the following:

(a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.

(b) A peace officer.

(c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

(d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.
-snip-

Possess means, among other things, to have under your control. So if a gun is in a case in your vehicle.... a vehicle you own/drove to get there and have the keys that allow access to that gun... you "possess" it.

Premises means.... every bit of property... all of it... buildings, lawn, and parking lot.

With a plain reading of the law (and I am NOT an attorney... just another schmuck reading the law) it appears to me that without a CPL or the owner's/his agent's permission it is illegal to have a gun of any kind (it says "firearm" not just pistol!) anywhere on the property of a place that has a liquor license.

Please note that law also only deals with a place that has a liquor license... the store/gas station/whatever doesn't have to actually sell booze.. it just has to have the license so just because there isn't any booze for sale there that doesn't necessarily mean they don't have the license.

Other folks might read that differently and, as always, the advice of an attorney is suggested.
 

smellslikemichigan

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
2,307
Location
Troy, Michigan, USA
everything you're saying seems to be logical bikenut.
so... for example: if a gander mountain and an applebees share a parking lot, and an individual without a CPL wants to bring his gun to be repaired at gander mountain would he be in violation of the law? just curious about how ridiculous this law could potentially be.
 
Last edited:

smellslikemichigan

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
2,307
Location
Troy, Michigan, USA
yeah, it really puts law abiding citizens in a predicament. it puts people at risk of unintentionally breaking the law just stopping off at the grocery story on the way to or from hunting if they have a gun in the trunk.
 

stainless1911

Banned
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
8,855
Location
Davisburg, Michigan, United States
Case by case. The assumption would be, that all the businesses are renting the property, and the owner likely does not have a liquor license, only property to rent.


What I want to know, is the best way to find out.

Lets say, you go to a strip mall to get groceries, you park in front on the hardware store trying to remain compliant. Would a reasonable person think you parked at the grocery store, or the hardware store? Would it hold up in court?
 

futurepopo

New member
Joined
Feb 16, 2012
Messages
3
Location
Hastings, Mi
I do because I'm not yet 21. It sucks having load and unload but it's just something you have to do. I'm to the point where I'm used to it. Make sure you take the case all the way out of the trunk, then take the gun out of the case, then load it and holster. Same thing for putting it back in but pretty much in reverse.

How do you do that with a pickup truck that has a cap?

I don't go very many places, mostly Wal-Mart and resturaunts. I will probably leave it home 90% of the time unless I know I can OC without breaking one of these laws. Is there a Michigan wide list somewhere listing all the dining establishments that do not permit open carry? I understand most of these laws, I just don't want the manager of the chicken shack for example to call the police if I'm OC in his resturaunt and I didn't get the memo
 

stainless1911

Banned
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
8,855
Location
Davisburg, Michigan, United States
How do you do that with a pickup truck that has a cap?

750.231a says,

and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in a vehicle that does not have a trunk and is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.

So, it has to be in a gun case/safe, in a place that is not easily accessible. Put the gun as far from you as possible, preferably in a place where you exit the vehicle to retrieve it, and most of us recommend using a locked case. Theres no requirement for a lock, but it helps.

Those book sized pistol cases that have a simple key lock are available for 25 or 30 dollars.
 
Last edited:

Haman J.T.

New member
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
1,245
Location
, ,
Just curious how many users OC without a CPL, and how much of a inconvience it is putting it in the trunk when you leave the establishment? I'm new to the open carry policy, and purchasing my first handgun on Monday.
Prior to my CPL,I didn't mind the trunk load-unload process because I knew for a fact that my life and the lives of my fellow citizens were worth the small hassle I had to go through! How would you feel if you were too lazy to go through "the hassle" and someone,or you,were the victim of a violent crime,and you were a witness to it?And could have prevented it?Common Sense dictates a simple answer to that question!CARRY ON!
 

xmanhockey7

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
1,195
Prior to my CPL,I didn't mind the trunk load-unload process because I knew for a fact that my life and the lives of my fellow citizens were worth the small hassle I had to go through! How would you feel if you were too lazy to go through "the hassle" and someone,or you,were the victim of a violent crime,and you were a witness to it?And could have prevented it?Common Sense dictates a simple answer to that question!CARRY ON!

It doesn't stop me from OCing but I'd still much rather be able to carry in my car.
 

stainless1911

Banned
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
8,855
Location
Davisburg, Michigan, United States
I like that it will lead to unnecessary fear for the public, and thus more unnecessary police responses. When the police get tired enough of it, perhaps they will talk to the legislature, and maybe then, they will change the laws to eliminate this foolishness.
 
Top