OC and CC come together.

Hello ladies and gentlemen after reading the two threads:

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...dment-Returning-Restaurant-Carry-to-HB-17-NOW!

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?112050-Mecklenburg-CCW-Scam-Need-Advice

I saw some constructive criticism coming from both sides and had an idea that may help unite these sides for common gain.

The CCers pay way to much for permission slips to exercise their Second Amendment rights and the OCers in some cases are harassed buy LEOs and other people or are unable to go places where they could go if CCing.

Both sides can gain from coming together to reach our law makers.

Remember this is just an idea. I don't know how well it would work or how the logistics of spreading the idea would work. So here we go!

If one of the best ways to preserve our rights is to get our law makers to act than we need to force them to act. From http://www.wral.com/news/state/page/11228410/ I found that as of July, 2012 about 3% of North Carolina's population had CC permission slips. That comes out to about 279,000 people. If we could get the CCers to OC as often as they felt comfortable. Then people would not only see more gun owners exercising their rights and join but more importantly they may complain! We could then take the stance that if people do not want to see our weapons then it should be free for us to carry concealed. If we take this stance and tell everyone who asks why we are doing this then inevitably word would reach law makers. Imagine their reaction when they start receiving bunches of letters from people asking for action because their feeling are hurt or they feel threatened or any other wacko liberal argument. Obviously this plan has its draw backs a difficulties. However this is just the outline and I hope I will see some good constructive criticism.

If your just going to post that it sounds stupid or dumb please don't waste your time. I'd rather see good ideas for improvement or legitimate reasons why this idea would not work.

It's actually a great idea to get out there and carry every time you are able to. I OC exclusively for various reasons, and one of them is to lower the shock effect to the public in some small way. What people hear about in the news and from their politicians is bloody gunfights in the streets. What they see is someone buying their groceries or buying a coffee just like they would without incident. If even that little bit helps, then cool.

Ultimately I'd like to see both the CHP and the PPP go the way of extinction. The problem is that it usually takes little bites, even with so called "Republican" policitians in control in our legislature. So goes the fight

New here, and frankly suprised and disappointed in what I see.

Frankly I'm really surprised at the animosity toward CC'ers by OC'ers. Granted this an OC forum, but some of the comments sound like they come from a staunch anti-gun toward a 2A supporter. Really? Why the animosity when both are merely exercising their rights, merely with a layer of clothing being the difference.

I don't have guns to "make a statement" about anything, the purpose of being armed is to defend myself from the thugs that have no problem breaking your door down, or car jacking your ride in the parking lot.

Perhaps the OC will dissuade someone from attacking that person simply because their gun is visible, but for the druggy that is beyond desperation, it also identifies their first target.

In rural areas, there is probably no problem, or even reaction with open carry, but 'in town' it's probably going to get a reaction (not why I'm armed) and then there is the reality there are too many idiots with badges that don't know the laws, or merely react to someone ignorant citizen saying "he's got a gun". I don't have the time or patience to deal with these mental midgets, that can arrest and confiscate (illegally).

Bottom line, there are pro's and con's to both sides, but both sides are on the same side of the 2A, or so I thought.

XD40sc said:

...Perhaps the OC will dissuade someone from attacking that person simply because their gun is visible, but for the druggy that is beyond desperation, it also identifies their first target. ....

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Can you find a single case where this has actually happened? Because what really happened is you heard this from an anti-OCer, and it seemed to make sense to you, so you've believed it for so long, you think it is fact.

MAC702 said:

Can you find a single case where this has actually happened? Because what really happened is you heard this from an anti-OCer, and it seemed to make sense to you, so you've believed it for so long, you think it is fact.

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http://gunsforeveryone.com/open-carrier-has-gun-stolen-then-murdered-with-it/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx_YUO4SzcY&feature=related

That is not a story that supports what you said. It was not a 'druggy beyond desperation, identifying their first target.'

The OCer stupidly chased the bad guy, leading to the situation.

Try again, please.

MAC702 said:

That is not a story that supports what you said. It was not a 'druggy beyond desperation, identifying their first target.'

The OCer stupidly chased the bad guy, leading to the situation.

Try again, please.

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This is exactly the point I made in my first post in this thread, animosity demonstrated here between OC and CC, which is OK, but rather counter-productive at this point in time when the anti's and doing their damnest to remove all gun owners rights, and turn us all into criminals with the stroke of a pen.

Our right to carry is the right that is currently in jeopardy, the OC vs. CC, is nothing more than a preference, like boxers, brief, thongs, or commando.

Every gun I own (all handguns) is illegal in some states, even the Colt Semi-auto that was made in 1921 (10 rnd mag), I ain't going to bicker about how to carry and loose focus of the real threat, those that want to legislate me into a criminal status.

Final word on OC/CC, if your good with OC, do it, and I won't criticize that choice, conversely, I'm not sure where you think you need to criticize the CC, anymore than criticizing the choice between boxers or briefs, it's what is comfortable for the individual.

Privileges are not rights. Someone CCing with a permit is exercising a privilege, that is it.

And in states with true constitutional carry, the right to be armed is the right and the law does not differentiate between OC or CC. Candy ass legislators are the ones that have relabeled it a privileged.

Like the people that rage so about same sex marriage, don't like it, don't marry someone of the same sex, don't like CC, then please don't.

There are still places that neither of us can carry, and your OC Constitutional right rhetoric doesn't change that any more than a valid CHP does.

This is a state with true constitutional carry, there is no permit for open carry, it is both protected by the NC constitution and NC Supreme Court rulings. I am puzzled what you are trying to accomplish because your present path seems to be a weak attempt at promoting CC. Some of your comments such as the shot first are common from OC haters.

I know that NC is an OC, as long as you can legally own a gun, no permit, no registration, and I do OC from time to time. But there are many many many restrictions on the "right" that also apply to CC'ers.

There are also a number of threads here are nothing but OC'ers bad mouthing CC, granted OC is the forum theme, but also something that is rare on most gun and carry forums. I don't git it, any more than criticizing someone's choice between boxers/briefs. I'm going with what I find comfortable, why is that a problem to you? You decide if I'm talking about my skivvies or my handgun.

It's my choice, I'm merely expressing my views, cause (aside from forum rules) we still have the 1A to defend the 2A, and I hope we don't have to reverse that.

The threat to OC is not the CC crowd, but the ignorant candy ass legislators across this country that want everyone to live in a "chicago style" (or worse) gun control state, or England or Australia.

XD40sc said:

I know that NC is an OC, as long as you can legally own a gun, no permit, no registration, and I do OC from time to time. But there are many many many restrictions on the "right" that also apply to CC'ers.

There are also a number of threads here are nothing but OC'ers bad mouthing CC, granted OC is the forum theme, but also something that is rare on most gun and carry forums. I don't git it, any more than criticizing someone's choice between boxers/briefs. I'm going with what I find comfortable, why is that a problem to you? You decide if I'm talking about my skivvies or my handgun.

It's my choice, I'm merely expressing my views, cause (aside from forum rules) we still have the 1A to defend the 2A, and I hope we don't have to reverse that.

The threat to OC is not the CC crowd, but the ignorant candy ass legislators across this country that want everyone to live in a "chicago style" (or worse) gun control state, or England or Australia.

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Cite where OCers are badmouthing CCers. That is a absolute untruth! Many in the OC community badmouth bad laws, and those laws are supported by lobbyists who have a agenda(based on money) to make permit carry the only carry whether CC or OC. I as well as most members here have nothing against CC, many of us do have a problem with infringements on rights. The privilege card is a infringement on a right if concealed carry is a right, the NC constitution says it is not.

Again CITE where OCers are badmouthing CC?

XD40sc said:

This is exactly the point I made in my first post in this thread, animosity demonstrated here between OC and CC, which is OK, but rather counter-productive at this point in time when the anti's and doing their damnest to remove all gun owners rights, and turn us all into criminals with the stroke of a pen.

Our right to carry is the right that is currently in jeopardy, the OC vs. CC, is nothing more than a preference, like boxers, brief, thongs, or commando.

Every gun I own (all handguns) is illegal in some states, even the Colt Semi-auto that was made in 1921 (10 rnd mag), I ain't going to bicker about how to carry and loose focus of the real threat, those that want to legislate me into a criminal status.

Final word on OC/CC, if your good with OC, do it, and I won't criticize that choice, conversely, I'm not sure where you think you need to criticize the CC, anymore than criticizing the choice between boxers or briefs, it's what is comfortable for the individual.

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What animosity against CC did I show? You asserted a claim against OC. I asked you to back it up. You threw out a cite that DID NOT DO WHAT YOU SAID it did. I showed its flaw and asked you to try again to back up a claim that you are making.

Apparently since you can not seem to do so, you claim I am being antagonistic. I'm sure that will distract from the fact that you are making a false assertion.

There aren't many polite ways of telling someone that they are feeding us ********. I offered first that you were accidentally passing on bad info without having done further research. Apparently you wish to stick with it.

Why would I have animosity against CC? I make use of it when I need to.

One doesn't need to be antagonistic against any form of carry in order to defend a blatant falsehood made against another form of carry.

WalkingWolf said:

Again CITE where OCers are badmouthing CC?

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It ain't worth the time to search through 75,514 threads with 1,293,954 posts, but when I first start reading somewhere in the general forums I came across some rather derogatory remarks directed at CC'ers, being cowards, being the problem because they hide their gun, not having the courage to OC, and similar BS.

Perhaps that was an incorrect first impression, posted by people that don't represent most of the OC advocates here, but you have to admit that an honest question was met with a fair amount of animosity......

You want to continue a ******* match, carry on, I'm done.

Well darn, next thread http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...carry-effort&p=1919651&viewfull=1#post1919651.

And no, I would have joined them if it wasn't 110 miles away.

XD40sc said:

It ain't worth the time to search through 75,514 threads with 1,293,954 posts, but when I first start reading somewhere in the general forums I came across some rather derogatory remarks directed at CC'ers, being cowards, being the problem because they hide their gun, not having the courage to OC, and similar BS.

Perhaps that was an incorrect first impression, posted by people that don't represent most of the OC advocates here, but you have to admit that an honest question was met with a fair amount of animosity......

You want to continue a ******* match, carry on, I'm done.

Well darn, next thread http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...carry-effort&p=1919651&viewfull=1#post1919651.

And no, I would have joined them if it wasn't 110 miles away.

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Where was the badmouthing in that thread? The post about the itching? That was not badmouthing that was the truth, we have heard it many times here, especially in the CA forum, also in the MO forum. It was the excuse that was used in the NC restaurant thread, and the Gold State Carry thread. And you have been itching about OCers to boot.

XD40sc said:

It ain't worth the time to search through 75,514 threads with 1,293,954 posts, but when I first start reading somewhere in the general forums I came across some rather derogatory remarks directed at CC'ers, being cowards, being the problem because they hide their gun, not having the courage to OC, and similar BS.

Perhaps that was an incorrect first impression, posted by people that don't represent most of the OC advocates here, but you have to admit that an honest question was met with a fair amount of animosity......

You want to continue a ******* match, carry on, I'm done.

Well darn, next thread http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...carry-effort&p=1919651&viewfull=1#post1919651.

And no, I would have joined them if it wasn't 110 miles away.

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We have a standard here - when someone makes a claim, then they need to back it up with cites/examples. Otherwise it is just so much hearsay. No one asked you to read every post, but you make your assertions sound commonplace - I submit that they are not. Point of fact, OCers tend by and large to be very tolerant and patient of the CC only community - wish I could always say the reverse were always true.

You are right though that OCers and CCers should pull together for the common good. Also hunters, target shooters and trap and skeet shooters - ALL gun buffs should be joined at the hip. Guess what? - your idea is anything but new to this forum and other gun rights groups. Collectively they have been striving for this unity for some time and still are. Hopefully we shall succeed.

XD40 you could say that a lot of the argument is on a bell curve. but i would like to say that most OCers are not against CC. most of us believe you should carry and carry often. i have not read any animosity against CCers On this site (jokes uncounted)

what bothers most OC people is the forcing of CC. we prefer to keep our rights. if the "cowardly legislature"

makes privileges to CC over OC then that is wrong

My one and only problem is with people who wish to legislate permit/privilege card only zones. Whether that privilege is for OC or CC I am passionately against it. I see nothing wrong with permits as long as OC is left alone as a right.

As it stands now OC is being infringed on a couple circumstances with restrictions, not having to do with secure government areas, theaters and restaurants. IMO this is in direct violation of NC constitution, and NC supreme court rulings. But as it does not affect me I have not stomped up and down, and since I can't honestly say the laws impact me that leaves out a law suit. I do not like theaters, and I can find many good restaurants that do not serve alcohol. I would imagine that many OCers are like me, that since the laws do not impact them directly they cannot launch a fight through the courts. I think that has been a green light for more laws pushing restrictions and special privilege by paying for a privilege.

In the long run the people most affected are the restaurants who have a choice taken from them by government. If laws are passed to allow carry with a permit, where it is already legal to OC, IMO, is a good indicator that we are moving in the direction of other states where a OCer must have a permit to OC. Or in the case of FL and Texas no OC at all. I was in FL in 87 when OC was outlawed, and from what I saw it was due to efforts by the CC community. Their claim was that it was not right for just anybody to strap on a gun without training and permission that they would have to get. This is the actual argument that the Miami news stations made.