Lets get some support for one of our OC'ers

Jmorales · Mar 30, 2012

http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20120329/COLUMNIST/120329462?p=3&tc=pg&tc=ar

Hey guys check out this article written about one of our Florida OC'ers Ethan Traub and how he was stopped by a local LEO and then had one of his rights infringed upon.

Any support in the comments would be appreciated as the article is pretty biased towards the end.

Thanks guys and gals!

j4l · Mar 31, 2012

This "oc"'er is such a douchebag, Im not even sure where to begin tearing him down.

It is precisely this sort of nonsense that we DO NOT need to have going on here. It back-fires on us in almost every possible way, especially now, with so much regional and national attention on our situation thnx to that stupid kid in Sanford.
These sorts of "hey look at me! I gots me a gun! dare to challenge me on it" bonehead stunts end up taking us 3 steps back from being able to someday have OC rights in this State. Not to mention the attitude it puts into the mind of LEOs whom we might encounter.
It tends to make many of them even more leery of us, and puts them on the defensive rather quickly.

""I see a police officer. Oh, is it just a car? No, there's a cop in it. So, I'm going to park right in front of him here."

^^^douchebag. end story.

Why provoke? Why create conflicts and situations that dont need to exist? If you are within your rights, and are carrying- why not just carry the damned thing, and drive on as if it's as normal to have on as a pair of shoes?
If you really feel you MUST do so, carry a copy of the Statute printed out-perhaps even laminated- and include the link to the State's URL for the Statute, so that any questioning authorities can look it up for themselves to confirm it, if need be.
And just hand him the copy along with the demanded ID, if it comes up.

Our issue isnt with the cops, so much- heck one of the things this Zimmerman situation demonstrates quiet well, is that for the most part, the cops arent as out to get us on this as can be the case in some of the other States.
Our issue is with the public, and with the elected tools in Tally, and with the organizations lobbying so hard to keep us in our place.
This sort of nonsense, and the yahoos who engage in it, are one of the things that these lobbyists and our opponents in Tally point to in their debates against our rights.

I wont even go into the less-than-legal aspect of the recording of the officer, if the officer was un-aware of the Statutes enough to not have arrested the guy for the recording alone-then the yahoo caught a break, and should consider hmself lucky.

I equate these sort of idiotic antics to having a driver's license, then going to the nearest intersection during rush-hour traffic-in front of the local police dept.-and doing donuts while shouting "see? i gots a license, I can drive- dare you to challenge me on it" It's bloody childish, at best.

A personal example. Last yr, in fact, right after our bill got deep-sixed, I went on a camping trip in a State camp ground near the Keys. I OC'd the entire time, often times even when going into the town nearby for supplies. Encountered somewhere around a dozen cops at different times, places during my week out there without a single one of them even bothering to comment on the .45 on my hip the entire time. Not one mention of it, by them, or by fellow campers in the park, nor by any citizens in town. Zero. Zip. Non-issue.
I didnt do so in a provocative way. Nor did I do so with the attitude of "hey, there's a cop, lets go see if he says anything about this .45!!" I simply wore the damned thing on my belt, and carried and presented myself as I normally do.

j4l · Mar 31, 2012

And, instead of just ranting/raving over such idiocy, a more mature, reasonable alternative: From our Brothers in Ky.

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?101419-Tri-Fold-Open-Carry

ADulay · Mar 31, 2012

j4l said:
Why provoke? Why create conflicts and situations that dont need to exist? If you are within your rights, and are carrying- why not just carry the damned thing, and drive on as if it's as normal to have on as a pair of shoes?

A personal example. Last yr, in fact, right after our bill got deep-sixed, I went on a camping trip in a State camp ground near the Keys. I OC'd the entire time, often times even when going into the town nearby for supplies. Encountered somewhere around a dozen cops at different times, places during my week out there without a single one of them even bothering to comment on the .45 on my hip the entire time. Not one mention of it, by them, or by fellow campers in the park, nor by any citizens in town. Zero. Zip. Non-issue.
I didnt do so in a provocative way. Nor did I do so with the attitude of "hey, there's a cop, lets go see if he says anything about this .45!!" I simply wore the damned thing on my belt, and carried and presented myself as I normally do.

As another person who "open carries" every day of the week (and on a motorcycle to boot) I have to agree 100% with your take on it.

Go about carrying in a normal way. Present yourself correctly and do not attempt to "provoke" a reaction from the local populace.

This tactic has worked well for me for just under a full year now. I don't see me changing my ways to "confront" the local LEO's at any time in the future.

Yes, I have been stopped by local law (as is well documented in another forum) but for each occasion, the results were the same. "Nice talking with you, have a nice day" and I would leave still open carrying.

I've spoken with the "Ethan" in this original message and although we may be on the same page, our methods are very much at polar opposites in execution.

AD

hammer6 · Mar 31, 2012

ADulay said:
As another person who "open carries" every day of the week (and on a motorcycle to boot) I have to agree 100% with your take on it.

Go about carrying in a normal way. Present yourself correctly and do not attempt to "provoke" a reaction from the local populace.

This tactic has worked well for me for just under a full year now. I don't see me changing my ways to "confront" the local LEO's at any time in the future.

Yes, I have been stopped by local law (as is well documented in another forum) but for each occasion, the results were the same. "Nice talking with you, have a nice day" and I would leave still open carrying.

I've spoken with the "Ethan" in this original message and although we may be on the same page, our methods are very much at polar opposites in execution.

AD

"And, of course, Officer McGee, seeing a man with a holstered gun on his belt in a public gathering site, challenges Traub to produce identification."

huh? if you don't need a CWL to open carry while fishing, then why did the cop ask for his ID? was he doing anything illegal? i mean, not that i agree with him provoking the cop, but, if the cop obviously saw him with a fishing pole, then why the need to stop and ID?

j4l · Apr 1, 2012

hammer6 said:
"And, of course, Officer McGee, seeing a man with a holstered gun on his belt in a public gathering site, challenges Traub to produce identification."

huh? if you don't need a CWL to open carry while fishing, then why did the cop ask for his ID? was he doing anything illegal? i mean, not that i agree with him provoking the cop, but, if the cop obviously saw him with a fishing pole, then why the need to stop and ID?

Simple. Because Doucheboy was going out of his way to act odd, and draw attention to himself by any means he could come up with, in order to get a rise out of the cop, and try to provoke some sort of reaction for his little camera.

JeepSeller · Apr 1, 2012

j4l said:
This "oc"'er is such a douchebag, Im not even sure where to begin tearing him down.

It is precisely this sort of nonsense that we DO NOT need to have going on here. It back-fires on us in almost every possible way, especially now, with so much regional and national attention on our situation thnx to that stupid kid in Sanford.
These sorts of "hey look at me! I gots me a gun! dare to challenge me on it" bonehead stunts end up taking us 3 steps back from being able to someday have OC rights in this State. Not to mention the attitude it puts into the mind of LEOs whom we might encounter.
It tends to make many of them even more leery of us, and puts them on the defensive rather quickly.

""I see a police officer. Oh, is it just a car? No, there's a cop in it. So, I'm going to park right in front of him here."

^^^douchebag. end story.

Why provoke? Why create conflicts and situations that dont need to exist? If you are within your rights, and are carrying- why not just carry the damned thing, and drive on as if it's as normal to have on as a pair of shoes?
If you really feel you MUST do so, carry a copy of the Statute printed out-perhaps even laminated- and include the link to the State's URL for the Statute, so that any questioning authorities can look it up for themselves to confirm it, if need be.
And just hand him the copy along with the demanded ID, if it comes up.

Our issue isnt with the cops, so much- heck one of the things this Zimmerman situation demonstrates quiet well, is that for the most part, the cops arent as out to get us on this as can be the case in some of the other States.
Our issue is with the public, and with the elected tools in Tally, and with the organizations lobbying so hard to keep us in our place.
This sort of nonsense, and the yahoos who engage in it, are one of the things that these lobbyists and our opponents in Tally point to in their debates against our rights.

I wont even go into the less-than-legal aspect of the recording of the officer, if the officer was un-aware of the Statutes enough to not have arrested the guy for the recording alone-then the yahoo caught a break, and should consider hmself lucky.

I equate these sort of idiotic antics to having a driver's license, then going to the nearest intersection during rush-hour traffic-in front of the local police dept.-and doing donuts while shouting "see? i gots a license, I can drive- dare you to challenge me on it" It's bloody childish, at best.

A personal example. Last yr, in fact, right after our bill got deep-sixed, I went on a camping trip in a State camp ground near the Keys. I OC'd the entire time, often times even when going into the town nearby for supplies. Encountered somewhere around a dozen cops at different times, places during my week out there without a single one of them even bothering to comment on the .45 on my hip the entire time. Not one mention of it, by them, or by fellow campers in the park, nor by any citizens in town. Zero. Zip. Non-issue.
I didnt do so in a provocative way. Nor did I do so with the attitude of "hey, there's a cop, lets go see if he says anything about this .45!!" I simply wore the damned thing on my belt, and carried and presented myself as I normally do.

VERY well said!!

You obviously "get it".

JoeSparky · Apr 1, 2012

hammer6 said:
"And, of course, Officer McGee, seeing a man with a holstered gun on his belt in a public gathering site, challenges Traub to produce identification."

huh? if you don't need a CWL to open carry while fishing, then why did the cop ask for his ID? was he doing anything illegal? i mean, not that i agree with him provoking the cop, but, if the cop obviously saw him with a fishing pole, then why the need to stop and ID?

And he announces at the end of the initial stop that he ran the ID to make sure the OC'er was not a felon..... what RAS did he have that the OC'er was a felon to start with? FOIA (or Florida's version) needs to be obtained on this incident.

Assuming that the video'd intent of the OC'er is honest and he was TRULY wanting to only make the officer's look good... THEY failed!

This OC'er was entirely within his rights to do what he has done as recorded here but IT WAS NOT THE WISEST CHOICE OF ACTIONS! JMO!

hammer6 · Apr 1, 2012

JoeSparky said:
And he announces at the end of the initial stop that he ran the ID to make sure the OC'er was not a felon..... what RAS did he have that the OC'er was a felon to start with? FOIA (or Florida's version) needs to be obtained on this incident.

Assuming that the video'd intent of the OC'er is honest and he was TRULY wanting to only make the officer's look good... THEY failed!

This OC'er was entirely within his rights to do what he has done as recorded here but IT WAS NOT THE WISEST CHOICE OF ACTIONS! JMO!

with that attitude, he should pull over every driver to make sure they have a license and insurance. just in case.

davidmcbeth · Apr 1, 2012

I think there is something lodged in the OP's gun barrel .. he should check it out

j4l · Apr 1, 2012

hammer6 said:
with that attitude, he should pull over every driver to make sure they have a license and insurance. just in case.

That would depend, wouldnt it? If the Officer had some jackass getting in his face, and acting oddly -the way he was- especially while clearly armed, why wouldnt he want to make sure this wasnt some armed nutbar, who might be a potential threat to himself and others?

Herr Heckler Koch · Apr 1, 2012

j4l said:
That would depend, wouldnt it? If the Officer had some jackass getting in his face, and acting oddly -the way he was- especially while clearly armed, why wouldnt he want to make sure this wasnt some armed nutbar, who might be a potential threat to himself and others?

Armed Nutbar pre-crime, absent crime, is still legal, as is potential crime. Think armed bank customer. Think armed veteran about to flash back.

j4l · Apr 2, 2012

Herr Heckler Koch said:
Armed Nutbar pre-crime, absent crime, is still legal, as is potential crime. Think armed bank customer. Think armed veteran about to flash back.

Apples and Oranges- is the armed bank customer getting all into the cop's face and obviously trying to provoke him into some action or other? Or is he just standing there, minding his own? Does armed bank customer-say, on his own video- "oh, here's a cop, let's park right in front of him, and see how he reacts"?
Big differences.

Jmorales · Apr 2, 2012

j4l said:
Apples and Oranges- is the armed bank customer getting all into the cop's face and obviously trying to provoke him into some action or other? Or is he just standing there, minding his own? Does armed bank customer-say, on his own video- "oh, here's a cop, let's park right in front of him, and see how he reacts"?
Big differences.

Really the point here is that the LEO had no right to ask him anything regardless if Ethan walked right in front of his car or not.

The execution was fine in my opinion. He warned the PD chief that he was going to be legally having an event to OC and told the Chief to let his guys know.

This LEO was clearly not educated on what he could and could not do and unfortunately as is so often the case here in Florida he would have likely arrested him and charged him if he did not cooperate, which as we all know he did not legally have to do.

Now as for the way things were said in the video I can see how it could have been taken the wrong way, but dont simply call a person a douchebag for exercising what little rights he has left in this State. Especially someone whom you do not know.

Lets try to show a little respect here, were all on the same team.

IH8SPM · Apr 2, 2012

1.Legally armed citizen shoots unarmed teen
2.Veteran pilot goes insane on plane.
3. Baby faced adult with permit exits vehicle with camera and gun on waist in parking after making a u-turn in front of leo.

We have the right to carry openly not taunting while carrying. His video is proof that he has made a conscious decision to find a cop and challenge him to say something about his rights.

If he was shoot and the video ended with him looking for his I'd and he survived what would you think happened. POV videos are one sided. News headline would read "Crazed man stalks cop"

Play it again without sound and you be the judge.

j4l · Apr 3, 2012

Jmorales said:
Really the point here is that the LEO had no right to ask him anything regardless if Ethan walked right in front of his car or not.

The execution was fine in my opinion. He warned the PD chief that he was going to be legally having an event to OC and told the Chief to let his guys know.

This LEO was clearly not educated on what he could and could not do and unfortunately as is so often the case here in Florida he would have likely arrested him and charged him if he did not cooperate, which as we all know he did not legally have to do.

Now as for the way things were said in the video I can see how it could have been taken the wrong way, but dont simply call a person a douchebag for exercising what little rights he has left in this State. Especially someone whom you do not know.

Lets try to show a little respect here, were all on the same team.

What little rights? Granted we dont have OC like we would prefer, but "what little rights" be realistic , at least. Try living and working in NYC for a few years. Or Kalifornia. My point is things of this nature backfire on us. Especially now days with all this crap surrounding Zimmerman. If folks keep pulling these stunts, 2 things are likely to happen:
The spineless lawmakers in Tally are going to start wondering "oh,. what's this loop-hole about carrying in parks, and fishing? who needs a gun to catch a brim?" And then they will begin seeking ways to eliminate even this much.
Is there some logical reason El Douchbo couldnt have just gone the fck fishing, while carrying, and conducted himself normally? I highly doubt he would even have been approached by the officer or even noticed by him , if he had.

Rich7553 · Apr 3, 2012

Last year, Ethan Traub's group had an open carry fishing event in Venice. Instead of simply going OC fishing, they decide to be "in your face" and park a mile away from where they were fishing, and parade through downtown. Florida Carry has been holding OC fishing events for over two years, and has never had a protester. Yet, Ethan's group drew some. When the news hit the legislature, we got a call saying that one of our sponsors was considering withdrawing support of one of our bills. It took some time to convince him that Florida Carry was not associated with Traub and that we had publicly denounced his methods.

Lets get some support for one of our OC'ers

Jmorales

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j4l

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j4l

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ADulay

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hammer6

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j4l

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JeepSeller

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JoeSparky

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hammer6

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davidmcbeth

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j4l

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Herr Heckler Koch

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j4l

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Jmorales

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IH8SPM

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j4l

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Rich7553

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