firearms and liquor/beer????

carry for myself · May 21, 2011

does anyone know about the law regarding to alcohol? i read in the law pamphlet that you cannot be "intoxicated" but it states "intoxication" is "excessive blood alcohol greater than 0.08% or more by weight of alcohol in the blood" .

reason i ask is we can carry in places that serve drinks. however my CCW instructor said if i sip the froth off a beer, and have my gun on me my permit will be revoked. but the wording of the law seems to say i have to be legally drunk.........i mean can i have a glass of wine and still carry? or a beer with dinner? or is that a no no. the law is really confusing

i in no way mean to say "if i get smashed is that bad" because well lots of booze and guns dont mix. but........i've heard the law about 3 different ways. anyone know what is set in stone? is it the legal intoxication level that makes it illegal? or having anything in your system at all?

Maine CWP Training · May 22, 2011

Your instructor was incorrect: HERE IS THE STATUTE

We recommend you do not indulge and ask for a separate tab if in a group. That way if you do have to employ your firearm the server will remember you did not consume alcohol and not impaired...

Claytron · May 22, 2011

the problem i have with this statute is it says if you are "under the influence" while carrying then you are breaking the law but it refers to (Title 29-A, section 2401, subsection 13) to give the definition of "under the influence" and i cant seem to locate the title anywhere.

It says that "excessive blood alcohol level" is 0.08+ but it seems obvious that "under the influence" and "excessive BAC" mean two different things. They seem to word it in such a way that "influence" basically comes down to whatever the officer wants it to mean, all he has to do is see you eat a rum chocolate while carrying and there goes the permit...

carry for myself · May 22, 2011

alright thats what i thought. he also attempted to tell me that Open carrying a unloaded vehicle in plain sight in the car was illegal if i could reach the ammo. which the statute for that also says is incorrect haha

cllmecrazy · May 26, 2011

Maine CWP Training said:
Your instructor was incorrect: HERE IS THE STATUTE

We recommend you do not indulge and ask for a separate tab if in a group. That way if you do have to employ your firearm the server will remember you did not consume alcohol and not impaired...

Sorry, I'm a little confused! The statute says "For purposes of this section, "under the influence of intoxicating liquor or drugs or a combination of liquor and drugs or with an excessive alcohol level" has the same meaning as "under the influence of intoxicants" as defined in Title 29-A, section 2401, subsection 13."

under the influence of liquor or drugs OR a combination OR with an excessive alcohol level. Does that not mean that if you are under the influence of liquor it falls under the category of criminal possession? "or" is a suggestion of choice...meaning any of those is considered criminal. So if you are under the influence of anything, it's criminal. Is there a definition of under the influence? It defines 'excessive alcohol' but not 'under the influence'. Please help me understand!! Can you tell I'm new?

eb31 · May 26, 2011

I prefer to use common sense for myself when carrying. I don't consume any alcohol when armed. If I choose to go out drinking, I do not carry (a gun). However, I never have less than 3 knives on my person at any time for SD purposes.

boyscout399 · May 26, 2011

cllmecrazy said:
Sorry, I'm a little confused! The statute says "For purposes of this section, "under the influence of intoxicating liquor or drugs or a combination of liquor and drugs or with an excessive alcohol level" has the same meaning as "under the influence of intoxicants" as defined in Title 29-A, section 2401, subsection 13."

under the influence of liquor or drugs OR a combination OR with an excessive alcohol level. Does that not mean that if you are under the influence of liquor it falls under the category of criminal possession? "or" is a suggestion of choice...meaning any of those is considered criminal. So if you are under the influence of anything, it's criminal. Is there a definition of under the influence? It defines 'excessive alcohol' but not 'under the influence'. Please help me understand!! Can you tell I'm new?

Title 29-A Section 2401 defines it as

13. Under the influence of intoxicants. "Under the influence of intoxicants" means being under the influence of alcohol, a drug other than alcohol, a combination of drugs or a combination of alcohol and drugs.

So it's criminal possession if you are under the influence of alcohol, or another drug, or any combination of alcohol and drugs and you're carrying a firearm in an establishment licensed to sell alcohol for on premises consumption.

You quoted Section 5 of the statute. It's section 1 that deals with criminal possession. Section 5 is just setting a definition.

cllmecrazy · May 26, 2011

boyscout399 said:
Title 29-A Section 2401 defines it as

13. Under the influence of intoxicants. "Under the influence of intoxicants" means being under the influence of alcohol, a drug other than alcohol, a combination of drugs or a combination of alcohol and drugs.

So it's criminal possession if you are under the influence of alcohol, or another drug, or any combination of alcohol and drugs and you're carrying a firearm in an establishment licensed to sell alcohol for on premises consumption.

You quoted Section 5 of the statute. It's section 1 that deals with criminal possession. Section 5 is just setting a definition.

So 'under the influence' means 'being under the influence'. That's not a definition. See where my problem lies? To me it still says that if you have alcohol in your system it's illegal. So it all relies on what is considered 'under the influence'...one drink or legally drunk. One drink can leave you buzzed, but not drunk...so does that count or no? I know I'm debating semantics...but semantics are where you can get into trouble if you're carrying and had one drink and a cop is giving you a hard time.

carry for myself · May 26, 2011

yet again a case of officer interp. Under the influance is stated as "intoxicated" but intoxicated in Maine states a BAL of 0.08% or more by blood volume. however it does not state in the statute that indeed that is what they mean. and its not just in a place that serves booze either. if the officer indeed believes you to be "under the influance" and you have a weapon on you. no matter where you are you are in big trouble. if you have a CCW he will probably pull it right there and then.

i wondered alot about this and asked a few leo friends of mine who told me they even were not quite sure. so to be safe booze + gun bad......if your gonna drink, lock it up. its what i do.

boyscout399 · May 27, 2011

cllmecrazy said:
So 'under the influence' means 'being under the influence'. That's not a definition. See where my problem lies? To me it still says that if you have alcohol in your system it's illegal. So it all relies on what is considered 'under the influence'...one drink or legally drunk. One drink can leave you buzzed, but not drunk...so does that count or no? I know I'm debating semantics...but semantics are where you can get into trouble if you're carrying and had one drink and a cop is giving you a hard time.

yes, alcohol in your system puts you under the influence. Remember this statute is only pertaining to being under the influence while in an establishment that serves alcohol for on premises consumption. It does not apply to being under the influence while walking on the street. Only in a bar or restaurant that serves alcohol.

Maine CWP Training · May 27, 2011

"excessive alcohol level" has the same meaning as "under the influence of intoxicants" as defined in Title 29-A, section 2401, subsection 13. "Excessive alcohol level" means an alcohol level of 0.08 grams or more of alcohol per 100 milliliters of blood or 210 liters of breath. Standards, tests and procedures applicable in determining whether a person is under the influence or has an excessive alcohol level within the meaning of this section are those applicable pursuant to Title 29-A, sections 2411 and 2431;

Claytron · May 27, 2011

Maine CWP Training said:
"excessive alcohol level" has the same meaning as "under the influence of intoxicants" as defined in Title 29-A, section 2401, subsection 13. "Excessive alcohol level" means an alcohol level of 0.08 grams or more of alcohol per 100 milliliters of blood or 210 liters of breath. Standards, tests and procedures applicable in determining whether a person is under the influence or has an excessive alcohol level within the meaning of this section are those applicable pursuant to Title 29-A, sections 2411 and 2431;

ive read that information before but i still cant find the actual section that states that the two terms have the same definition... if they meant the same thing then why use different wordage?

boyscout399 · May 28, 2011

Maine CWP Training said:
"excessive alcohol level" has the same meaning as "under the influence of intoxicants" as defined in Title 29-A, section 2401, subsection 13. "Excessive alcohol level" means an alcohol level of 0.08 grams or more of alcohol per 100 milliliters of blood or 210 liters of breath. Standards, tests and procedures applicable in determining whether a person is under the influence or has an excessive alcohol level within the meaning of this section are those applicable pursuant to Title 29-A, sections 2411 and 2431;

read the statute again. you misquoted it. "Excessive alcohol level" means .08 or higher, but "Under the influence" does not specify a level of intoxication.

The statute says "under the influence" OR "excessive alcohol level" in a bar is criminal possession

Claytron · May 28, 2011

boyscout399 said:
read the statute again. you misquoted it. "Excessive alcohol level" means .08 or higher, but "Under the influence" does not specify a level of intoxication.

The statute says "under the influence" OR "excessive alcohol level" in a bar is criminal possession

Have you seen the section of the statute that defines the two definitions?

Title 29-A, section 2401, subsection 13

Ive looked but i cant seem to find it. The way i read the statute so far is that "under the influence" has the same meaning as "excessive BAC" and that would be 0.08%+. But "intoxicants" can mean marijuana, cocaine, prescription pills or other drugs as far as i can tell, so how can you have an excessive BAC with a non-alcohol intoxicant? Or maybe "intoxicant" has a definition involving alcohol specifically that i havent seen?

I really wish i could find the section in question regarding the "same meaning". Theres a big difference between carrying a firearm when you are sloppy drunk at a party and having a sam adams at the chinese buffet along with your 3 plates of chinese food and carrying with a (possibly illegal) 0.0002 BAC.

Maine CWP Training · May 29, 2011

I copied it directly from that state statute and pasted it. Not misread at all.

cllmecrazy · May 29, 2011

boyscout399 said:
read the statute again. you misquoted it. "Excessive alcohol level" means .08 or higher, but "Under the influence" does not specify a level of intoxication.

The statute says "under the influence" OR "excessive alcohol level" in a bar is criminal possession

I went and found Title 29-A, section 2401, subsection 13 that this refers to:

§2401. Definitions

As used in this chapter, unless the context otherwise indicates, the following terms have the following meanings.

13. Under the influence of intoxicants. "Under the influence of intoxicants" means being under the influence of alcohol, a drug other than alcohol, a combination of drugs or a combination of alcohol and drugs.

Now is the grey area...it does not define what 'under the influence' means. All it is defining is 'intoxicants'...which is where the confusion is. Basically I'd say...just don't drink and carry...because I don't see a definite answer.

However, when trying to find a definition in the title for 'under the influence' I came across criminal OUI. Well...take out 'operating' and just keep 'under influence' and 'Title 29-A Section 2411 Subsection 1A defines that as: "While having an alcohol level of 0.08 grams or more of alcohol per 100 milliliters of blood or 210 liters of breath'". Though, then you could argue that's CRIMINAL 'under influence', where they didn't state 'criminal' in Title 29-A 2401...

CIRCLES I tell you...leaves room for interpretation and I don't know if I like that.

boyscout399 · May 29, 2011

Maine CWP Training said:
I copied it directly from that state statute and pasted it. Not misread at all.

but you left out the OR option before excessive alcohol level... under the influence OR excessive alcohol level, means what it means in Title 29. So under the influence means under the influence. It does not specify a level of intoxication to define what under the influence means. A prosecutor could easily argue that buzzed is "under the influence." even if it's not "legally intoxicated"

Intoxicated is a higher standard than under the influence.

boyscout399 · May 29, 2011

cllmecrazy said:
I went and found Title 29-A, section 2401, subsection 13 that this refers to:

§2401. Definitions

As used in this chapter, unless the context otherwise indicates, the following terms have the following meanings.

13. Under the influence of intoxicants. "Under the influence of intoxicants" means being under the influence of alcohol, a drug other than alcohol, a combination of drugs or a combination of alcohol and drugs.

Now is the grey area...it does not define what 'under the influence' means. All it is defining is 'intoxicants'...which is where the confusion is. Basically I'd say...just don't drink and carry...because I don't see a definite answer.

However, when trying to find a definition in the title for 'under the influence' I came across criminal OUI. Well...take out 'operating' and just keep 'under influence' and 'Title 29-A Section 2411 Subsection 1A defines that as: "While having an alcohol level of 0.08 grams or more of alcohol per 100 milliliters of blood or 210 liters of breath'". Though, then you could argue that's CRIMINAL 'under influence', where they didn't state 'criminal' in Title 29-A 2401...

CIRCLES I tell you...leaves room for interpretation and I don't know if I like that.

If it doesn't define what Under the Influence is, then it means Under the influence. If the drug affects your decision making, then it is Influencing you. If you are buzzed, but not legally drunk, then the drug is still influencing you and therefore this statute applies.

I don't understand why it's so hard to read. Take the statute at face value, don't try to read into it. It's very clear. If you are under the influence OR intoxicated above .08, then you can't be in an establishment that serves alcohol for on premises consumption.

cllmecrazy · May 29, 2011

boyscout399 said:
If it doesn't define what Under the Influence is, then it means Under the influence. If the drug affects your decision making, then it is Influencing you. If you are buzzed, but not legally drunk, then the drug is still influencing you and therefore this statute applies.

I don't understand why it's so hard to read. Take the statute at face value, don't try to read into it. It's very clear. If you are under the influence OR intoxicated above .08, then you can't be in an establishment that serves alcohol for on premises consumption.

Actually...if you read further up, that's exactly what I was saying earlier in the thread...which spurred this whole thing.

boyscout399 · May 29, 2011

cllmecrazy said:
Actually...if you read further up, that's exactly what I was saying earlier in the thread...which spurred this whole thing.

my comment was directed more at others than yourself...

twisting the wording of the statute through omission to make it less strict than it actually is. That is just as bad as the people who twist the wording of the second amendment to try and make it MORE strict by only applying to militias.

firearms and liquor/beer????

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