All,
I was trying to stay out of this thread but I figured I may as well add my 2 cents worth for people to at least consider.
I don't
own this thread, why stay out of it?
If you were a copper (I can call them that as that's what we called ourselves way back when) and somebody that you had just stopped, for whatever reason, hands you a pamphlet or sheet of paper and says "read this", I'd think I had somebody who really should be "monitored" a bit more closely.
Knowing the law makes a person deserving of 'monitoring?'
Knowing the Bill of Rights makes a person deserving of 'monitoring?'
Having the courtesy of informing an officer that he has a chance to rise above the pack be not being a dick is deserving of 'monitoring?'
Having the courtesy to provide an officer with material he might not be aware of is deserving of 'monitoring?'
Please do explain.
First off, an LEO is NOT going to read that paper as it means he's going to have to take his eyes off of you to do so. Never a good thing on an initial stop.
Does anything in this thread or document say that the officer will be forced to read it whether he wants to or not?
Why not wait and see just what the stop is for?
Did I state the the reader must do as I do with this document? Edit it if you like. It's a handy and concise reference. Read it for your own edification and never show it to anyone. I don't care... You imply that I'm telling people what to do with themselves to fabricate an argument against that unmade statement... You planning to put boxing gloves on that strawman?
If the conversation gets around to YOU and your weapon, then you can recite the relevant statutes as needed, in a polite and civil manner.
Recite? We should all memorize SS 790 in it's entirety? Now who's trying to look like a wannabe lawyer/show-off?
Being confrontational is not going to work, especially if you've run into a jerk. (Yes, they're out there, no doubt about it).
Another strawman. There is nothing confrontational here. Implying that there is, is a lie. You can have that fight if you like, but you'll have it alone...
I been pulled over three times now while open carrying and all three times I came away with a "thank you, drive safely" exit from the stop.
Three, the convenient number... But I'll not pick nits. You do things your way. I never said you shouldn't...
Two of the stops had the officer knowing the statutes and wanted to make sure that was WHY I was open carrying as I was in normal civilian traffic and not at a fishing hole! The third one was aware of the fishing, hunting statute but not the "shooting range" paragraph that was further down the page.
It's the same as pulling someone over to check if they have a Driver's License. If you choose to waive your Rights, that's fine. I chose not to make that recommendation because I don't tell people what to do with themselves. I certainly don't tell people to toss the Constitution out the window. If that's what you want to do, fine. You do that. I lose respect for the person who tells others that they should throw away their Rights.
All three stops were NON-CONFRONTATIONAL. I never said "Hey, you can't stop me!" or anything like that.
Same here... I just draw a line of how much treason I'm willing to put up with. I never tell a cop he can't do something. If he wants to cross the line, far be it from me to stop him... don't tell people what to do. I expect them to conduct themselves properly, if they don't I'm not going to stop them from proving what scum they are. Actions speak louder than words, so let them be done.
We're the stops "illegal" or not warranted? It's a tough call.
No, it isn't. You were detained with no RAS or PC. You're fine with that. That's your choice.
You and I know the law, but when you look at it from the officer's side, he sees a guy with an openly carried gun and is "curious" about this in a strictly urban environment. Heck, I'd take the time to at least find out what the story is, if not for anything more than curiousity and my own edification!
Derp, that's the whole point! I'm willing to have a consensual conversation, but a pull-over is a detainment. If there is no RAS/PC for it, then it's a breach of the 4th Amendment.
You decide if
you're ok with that. I am not. He can follow me to my destination if he wants, but detainment for a non-criminal activity is unacceptable.
Here's the amazing thing about this so far. None of the three stops had me produce any kind of identification! Evidently calling in the license plate was sufficient to satisfy whatever it is they were stopping me for.
That doesn't seem like anything to brag about. But I won't go off-topic with the many issues here...
So, let's try to think about WHY you're about to hand that laminated sheet to the officer. How about not doing it and just ask, "What's going on?" and take it from there.
Why? Because I'm sick of trying to educate someone who tells me I'm 'lucky' he isn't killing me on sight. Taht anyone who owns a gun deserves to die, etc... The confrontation was not my doing. Get off your high horse, pretending that all LEO encounters that go badly are the victim's fault. You may as well claim that anyone who is raped was asking for it. Same mentality.
The information on the sheets is correct and informative, but I don't think handing it out as the first line of defense in a stop is a good tactic.
So don't. Did I say you had to? Roll it up and smoke it for all I care... I'm just trying to be helpful.
With that said, this is only my own opinion. I still feel that handing reading material to the LEO who has just stopped you might be counter-productive to the intended result.
If the topic comes up; it beats an argument and it's in writing. Nobody can claim 'he said, she said.' I don't think most of us have the time or insanity available to memorize 790 as you suggested. Even if we did, how authoritative is the memorized word? This tangible document can be taken back to his patrol car while he calls in for a Statute. When it comes back word-for-word identical, he knows he is dealing with someone who isn't making sh!t up. If he chooses to apply an attitude problem to it, that's on him.
I open carry daily in my normal routine all around a three county area as I fish and shoot almost daily. I find it much more comfortable than IWB carry and can always throw on a light "cover garment" should I find the need to deviate from going to and from these activities.
You stated yourself that you are one of the good ol' boys. You get special treatment if you want it or not. The rest of us aren't so lucky; we're not part of the thick, brown line. We don't get the special treatment that you do.
Remember this part?
If you were a copper (I can call them that as that's what we called ourselves way back when)
Here's the amazing thing about this so far. None of the three stops had me produce any kind of identification! Evidently calling in the license plate was sufficient to satisfy whatever it is they were stopping me for.
No correlation to being one of them... Nah, can't be...
Displaying to all that you are an 'only one' schmoozing it up with fellow 'only ones,' then pretending to wonder why nobody else gets the special treatment that you do, and implying that it must be the Citizen's fault when Cops come unhinged. Have you seen youtube? Search for "police brutality." You could waste the rest of your life looking at these examples... There is literally no end to the videos of Cops breaking the law, violating the Bill of Rights, attacking people, killing people... And these are just the times it was caught on video! I've been to the academy where this kind of thing is openly taught by the FDLE. Don't tell me what I've seen and heard with my own eyes and ears never happened. Having a house shot full of holes and then burned to the ground to cover it up wasn't something I imagined.
There is not a damn thing wrong with keeping a direct, arm's-length social policy with LEOs. They are known to kill on a whim. I don't get cozy with people like that. It's not confrontational. I just don't want a group of people known to commit over 1200% more violent crime than anyone else, and being a victim of the same many times, to get too close to me. I've never been a victim of a crime that WASN'T perpetrated by LEOs. And they got away with it.
So, we've got two completely opposite ends of the spectrum. One guy who is a cop and is friends with them and receives special treatment from them. And another who has had Cops try to kill him and his family on more than one occasion, yet never arrested or charged with anything... Hmm...
I doubt many readers on this forum can relate to the latter. Nor would I call it the norm. But being buddies with Cops, and being one yourself, is a skewed perspective, too. Those who fall 'somewhere in between' probably need more protection than a member of the club...