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Do you want a gun specific Suppressor Trust? Sun, July 17th

oldkim

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Apr 6, 2009
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Kent, Washington, USA
Well, I am working out the details but I am projecting Sunday, July 17 10-12 and 1-3pm for the Renton/Kent area

Working with Keith (aka Woodinvillegunlawyer) http://www.woodinvillelaw.com/ and Dennis (aka Resqcat) http://www.brislawnlofton.com/

I am projecting 2 slot times 10-12 and 1-3pm Really only need an hour so the extra hour is for Q&A. Looking at 5-8 folks for each time period.

We'll have a very short presentation on the "why" and benefits on getting a Trust and the benefits of getting one that's properly done by an attorney.

Cost is projected to be $125 - $400 depending on how elaborate your Trust will need to be.

The Presentation is FREE.

A very basic "attorney backed trust" will be about $125. The $400 will involve more complex issues depending on your background (estate, wealth, etc).

You pay the attorney... There is no "extra" charges for the meeting, etc.

The presentation is FREE but this will be a working meeting* This means you order something to eat from the restaurant.

You can chalk this up for Free information... and if you want or need a trust... you can get one! Plus meet to discuss the plans of the upcoming Suppressor shoot at RF&GC (Sunday, July 24, 2011 3-7pm) viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1132

Please email me via my website at http://www.shootonthemove.org/contact

I'll send you location and confirm your spot. Please indicate which time you would like (early or late).


NEW LOCATION on Bottom of thread...
 
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Tawnos

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Jun 4, 2008
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Washington
I have one of Dennis Brislawn's trusts. If you're considering a suppressor, it's worth doing. He'll hit all the important issues, the common questions, etc. Not something to mess around with potential federal felonies on the line :).
 

oldkim

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Joined
Apr 6, 2009
Messages
375
Location
Kent, Washington, USA
Btt

Just bumping to top.

Hope you can take advantage... it's free to listen. No pressure... it's not a hard sell.

Bottomline: it's good info for one to know. Straight from a lawyer (without paying him to boot).
 

Whitney

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Jan 12, 2010
Messages
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Location
Poulsbo, Kitsap County, Washington, USA
Convince me

I have often thought about this as a double edged sword.

How do I know the lawyer is doing a good job keeping me out of trouble with the Feds? What is my recourse if at a later date the trust is found invalid due to some technicality?

I'm not willing to put my trust in someone else with out some type of guarantee.
I also acknowledge you get what you pay for.

~Whitney
 

massivedesign

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Messages
865
Location
Olympia, Washington, USA
I have often thought about this as a double edged sword.

How do I know the lawyer is doing a good job keeping me out of trouble with the Feds? What is my recourse if at a later date the trust is found invalid due to some technicality?

I'm not willing to put my trust in someone else with out some type of guarantee.
I also acknowledge you get what you pay for.

~Whitney

When you hire a lawyer, you hire them because of their ability to help you in the field they are educated in. A Lawyer knowingly overstepping his abilities risks his license.

What do you do when you go see the doc for the sniffles? Tell him you will pay him once there is proof that his medicine worked? What about the ER? Do you deny treatment until the surgeon signs a "Guarantee of Life"?
 

Dave_pro2a

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I have often thought about this as a double edged sword.

How do I know the lawyer is doing a good job keeping me out of trouble with the Feds? What is my recourse if at a later date the trust is found invalid due to some technicality?

I'm not willing to put my trust in someone else with out some type of guarantee.
I also acknowledge you get what you pay for.

~Whitney

If the document ever becomes invalid, then you draft a new one.

Having a lawyer draft the documents is going to reasonable lengths to comply with the law. It also makes for an excellent defense in court, especially in a jury trial. As a layman, you relied on paid, expert, trained advice.

Nothing in life is guaranteed except dying.
 
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Tawnos

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Washington
I have often thought about this as a double edged sword.

How do I know the lawyer is doing a good job keeping me out of trouble with the Feds? What is my recourse if at a later date the trust is found invalid due to some technicality?

I'm not willing to put my trust in someone else with out some type of guarantee.
I also acknowledge you get what you pay for.

~Whitney

What's your alternative, one of the "free" trusts that are often found invalid or not properly constructed, or don't handle things like a death in the family or adding and removing trustees or similar?
 

amlevin

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Feb 16, 2007
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North of Seattle, Washington, USA
Is a trust even required in WA State? Has anyone successfully received "sign off by a Chief Law Enforcement Officer" which I understand is all that is needed besides the ATF Forms and Fee's?
 

Dave_pro2a

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Is a trust even required in WA State? Has anyone successfully received "sign off by a Chief Law Enforcement Officer" which I understand is all that is needed besides the ATF Forms and Fee's?

There are pros and cons to trusts versus having a CLEO sign off on your NFA item.

I'm guessing said pros and cons will be discussed at the July 17th event.

For instance, you need a CLEO sig every single time you purchase a NFA item. But with a trust, you just easily add new items to the trust when you purchase them (no lawyer needed for that, nothing to file with the state, no additional expenses or hassles involved).

Also the trust makes transfer to heirs less expensive, and easier. No need for the inheritor to pay a $200 transfer fee for each NFA item they inherit (assuming the trust is properly set up).

Also, items in a trust are fairly protected from lawsuits. I.e. your kid crashes a car and kills 10 people, you get sued for everything you own... the items in the trust should be outside what the civil courts can grab.

IANAL (I don't even own any NFA items), do some googling on the subject, or attend the free event ;)
 
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oldkim

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Apr 6, 2009
Messages
375
Location
Kent, Washington, USA
Shared Wisdom....

Ain't this Great! The shared wisdom on this board is amazing! :banana:

You guys rock! All the feedback has been great and this is why I like this forum so much.

Back on topic: regarding "trusting" the trust and attorney...

In this case: we have someone that is one of the national leaders on gun trust right here in our own backyard. These guys are the experts in this field. It's not a regular attorney we are talking about or even just a "Trust" attorney... This guy talks to other attorneys around the United States about gun trust.

Once you "hire" him (pay him to do your trust)... he stands behind it. So this is an opportunity for everyone to benefit. Especially for those wanting to get a suppressor... :D

Come because you want to get a trust...
Come because you just want to be informed...
Come because you want to meet other members of this forum...
Come because you dont' have anything else to do on Sunday morning (July 17th)...

This is free! Order some breakfast and enjoy the freedoms of being an American!

Freedom; men and women do not enjoy in most of the world.


PS there are plenty of openings - as this venue can take quite a bit of folks if needed...
 

Dave_pro2a

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Eff it, not worth it.

Hey, what does this have to do with OC?

That was 1/2 of a big dave impersonation, only half because well, I censored myself! ;)
 
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amlevin

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North of Seattle, Washington, USA
Question based on title of this thread

Gun Specific? Does one have to have a 'specific' gun for their suppressor? Or can one possess a suppressor and use it on several firearms? I have always been under the impression that the "paperwork" was for the suppressor and as long as you had that with the tax stamp that is all that is needed.

Suppressors are available that are suitable for use different firearms, even of different calibers. YHM offers one that can be transferred from .308 to 5.56mm firearms by installing quick change adapters on each firearm. The .308 suppressor can be used on the smaller caliber but obviously not vice-versa. Regardless of any arguments to the effectiveness of the suppressor, Isn't this LEGAL without paperwork for each firearm?

Just curious.
 

Aknazer

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California
My dad has a suppressor and can use it on multiple weapons. The paperwork is for the suppressor and not for a specific gun, but you might need to look at your state laws too.
 

amlevin

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My dad has a suppressor and can use it on multiple weapons. The paperwork is for the suppressor and not for a specific gun, but you might need to look at your state laws too.

Washington now allows use of suppressors "as long as in accordance with Federal Law".

That's why I am questioning the title of the thread and why one would need a "gun specific" trust???
 

jt59

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Central South Sound
Washington now allows use of suppressors "as long as in accordance with Federal Law".

That's why I am questioning the title of the thread and why one would need a "gun specific" trust???

I am thinking that it is to protect assets or to creat a personal liability protection specific to guns (violations) in some way (but I don't really understand how, if your the owner of the trust).

Other types of trusts are put in place to protect assets and transfer of wealth to limit tax liability and such at death or in cases of incapacitation. Generally, for those kinds, you need a lot of dough to rationalize it from an asset management standpoint of asset preservation, since the CG tax rate on assets in trusts are significantly higher than CG rates personally or jointly, open carry or concealed.
 

Tawnos

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Washington now allows use of suppressors "as long as in accordance with Federal Law".

That's why I am questioning the title of the thread and why one would need a "gun specific" trust???

Gun specific means that the trust deals strictly with firearms and firearm components, not that it deals with only one gun.

Dave_pro2a: a trust removes the need for CLEO signoff
 

amlevin

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Gun specific means that the trust deals strictly with firearms and firearm components, not that it deals with only one gun.

Dave_pro2a: a trust removes the need for CLEO signoff

On your final statement, what is the "temperature" on "CLEO's" when it comes to signing off on suppressors?

I know that a Trust will eliminate the need but has anyone been successful in obtaining the signature and not bothered with a Trust? Just interested in a.) if it has been done and b.) was it a big hassle?
 

Dave_pro2a

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That's why I am questioning the title of the thread and why one would need a "gun specific" trust???

Because someone decided to invent a specialty?

What's the history of 'gun specific trusts? It's been 43 years since the NFA, and such a trust seems like a very recent 'development.' Begs the question, why now.
 

massivedesign

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On your final statement, what is the "temperature" on "CLEO's" when it comes to signing off on suppressors?

I know that a Trust will eliminate the need but has anyone been successful in obtaining the signature and not bothered with a Trust? Just interested in a.) if it has been done and b.) was it a big hassle?

Depends on the CLEO. They are going to be a little more easy going now that it also helps their departments and their officers. We are currently putting together a list of CLEO's and their stances on signing off on the Form 4.

Because someone decided to invent a specialty?

What's the history of 'gun specific trusts? It's been 43 years since the NFA, and such a trust seems like a very recent 'development.' Begs the question, why now.

Actually Dave, the "gun trust" has been around and in use for many years, just not as widely in this state. The states where NFA items were legal to own AND use have been using trusts for a while. Most other states have a more open NFA list (SBR's, SBS's, MG's, etc).

Now that WA is a own AND use State, why shouldn't people proficient in drafting a document to help obtain and protect you come out of the woodwork? I applaud them.
 
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