Credit Card ID Requirement

I don't use credit cards don't even have a bank account. Cash no questions asked. I did buy one of the Wal-Mart cards though for a few things on line.

Interesting side note (well at least to me) a credit card/debit card is often accepted as a 2nd piece of I.D. when cashing checks.

Here's how Visa instructs merchants to accept cards:

http://usa.visa.com/merchants/risk_management/card_present.html

Note that "see id" is not allowed (down at bottom of page), the card must be signed. But you know that already, since it says that on your card right next to your signature panel. It goes on to note that if you sign an unsigned card at the point of purchase, the merchant is to check your I.D.

This page does not instruct merchants who suspect fraud to check i.d. This page tells such merchants to call for authorization and use the phrase "code 10" which will trigger a minor investigation by the authorization center.


To report a merchant for improperly requiring ID, 800-VISA911. I have done this, and Visa mailed me a letter confirming this policy.


Visa specifies for retail card-present transactions that cardholder identification is not allowed. See this ridiculously huge PDF starting on page 423 for the full story.

http://usa.visa.com/download/merchants/visa-international-operating-regulations-main.pdf

Warning: not only is this PDF large, but it reads like IRS instructions. But from page 428 this is absolutely clear:

Supplemental Identification - U.S. Region
A U.S. Acquirer must not, as a regular practice, require a Merchant, and a Merchant must not require a
Cardholder, to provide any supplementary Cardholder information as a condition for honoring a Visa
Card or Visa Electron Card, unless it is required or permitted elsewhere in the U.S. Regional
Operating Regulations. Such supplementary Cardholder information includes, but is not limited to:
• Social Security Number (or any part thereof)
• Fingerprint
• Home or business address or telephone number
• Driver's license number
• Photocopy of a driver's license
• Photocopy of the Visa

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I worked in debit card processing some years ago, and had to make our procedures conform to a lot of similar and overlapping regulations. So I've formed some opinions and observations:

1. Since when is it hard to make a fake ID that can fool a cashier who's not selling you booze? Especially if when showing ID, he doesn't actually hand it to the cashier: whoever stole your credit card just leaves the inkjet paper that your name is 'shopped over a scan of his own drivers' license, in the clear plastic holder in his wallet as he flashes it to the cashier.

2. If your card is signed by you, and the thief practices your signature and dupes merchants, then that's forgery which gets tacked on to his eventual charge sheet. And you still aren't responsible for the charges, despite the merchants not asking for I.D.

3. Showing your ID can make you less safe. Leaving aside a stalker/rapist who could potentially perform effective victim selection with address info, there's this: Say you've shown your ID for a credit card purchase to a skeevy cashier who's skimmed your card or otherwise unbeknownst to you has copied your card number and maybe also that 3-digit CVV code next to your signature? Well if your card billing address happens to be the same one as on your ID, they just need to remember your house number off your ID long enough to jot it down as you leave and now they can order everything they would like online with your card. If your address is 5566 Smith St., an online order using your card for merchandise to be delivered to a drop house could be placed like this:

(website shopping cart checkout)
name: your name
address 1: 5566
address 2: 1234 abandoned house lane
city/state/zip (etc)

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...and the website software may clear your card since AVS just checks the house number provided on the address. (I'm leaving out some other details in order to not instruct new criminals.)


Signatures reflect intent in our legal system. The reason that your signature or "mark" can be an illegible scribble is that it's evidence that you intended to authorize whatever you signed, be it a sales slip for a restaurant meal or a contract to buy a car.

You sign a sales slip, that's your intent and promise that you are you, an authorized user of the card, and this dollar amount on that slip represents money the credit card company is fronting to the merchant on your behalf, and that you'll be paying back that credit card company. Identification doesn't enter into it, because falsely representing that you're someone else with a financial instrument is already a crime, and since the card companies want the use of their credit cards to be a convenient choice, they've set up their procedures to not require I.D., and Visa in fact produced some TV commercials which touted that, here's one:

http://www.stupidvideos.com/video/all/Visa_Check_Card/#26255

Good links, but again, nowhere in those links does it prohibit vendors from checking ID. They can't copy the information from the ID, but nothing says that they may not choose to check it.

So, again, does anyone have a Visa link that actually says that vendors who accept Visa are prohibited from checking ID?

I am beginning to think that vendors being barred from checking ID on those who present Visa cards is as much a myth as not being required to sign your card is.

eye95 said:

Good links, but again, nowhere in those links does it prohibit vendors from checking ID. They can't copy the information from the ID, but nothing says that they may not choose to check it.

So, again, does anyone have a Visa link that actually says that vendors who accept Visa are prohibited from checking ID?

I am beginning to think that vendors being barred from checking ID on those who present Visa cards is as much a myth as not being required to sign your card is.

Click to expand...

First, some states do have laws against writing down any info from an ID or phone number in a credit card transaction, e.g., california, and I have sued under this law in California and obtained a settlement, including some cash to me as the class action representative.

Second, MasterCard's merchant report form can be used against any merchant who displays a MC logog and demands ID to use a signed card, or sets a minimum, or has a fee, to use the MC: http://www.mastercard.com/us/personal/en/contactus/merchantviolations.html

I have spoken to VISA and they have the same rule, though you must report violations thru your card issuing bank - kinda weird as until you reach the upper echelons of the bank, nobody knows what your talking about. See http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13806200/ns/business-consumer_news/:

SNIP

"Can merchants ask for ID when you make a credit/debit card purchase?
—Lorna M., New York, N.Y.

Visa and MasterCard have similar rules on this. In most cases and in most places, a merchant cannot ask for identification to process your transaction. If the clerk believes the signature on the sales slip does not match the signature on the back of the card, they can call the card verification center and may be instructed to ask for identification.

Merchants are required to ask for picture ID if the signature line is blank. You will be asked to sign the card on the spot. Visa and MasterCard rules say if you refuse to sign, that card cannot be accepted.

Instead of signing their card, a lot of people write “See ID,” or “Ask for ID” in the signature line. They think this will reduce their risk for fraud. The fact is this is not a valid substitute for a signature. If the card is not signed, it cannot be used."

And i have heard AMEX, which used to be silent on the matter, now prohibits merchants, again, thru merchant agreements, to demand ID to use their signature cards - which is what credit cards are. in fact, under Mc and VIOSA rules, you can take a credit card in your name, give it to a friend, she signs it, and now she can use it and merchants must accept it, subject to a reasonable likness test between sig on slip and back of card!

So here's the deal - sign your card! And if you want privacy, issue yourself an authorized user card in a pseudonym - Like S. Clause. Or maybe just your first initial and last name. And sign it and use it. And if ID is demanded, refuse, explain procedures, if management does not allow, leave your stuff there, report them thru MC webiste merchant violation report form, and then follow up with corporate and local management - eventaully, they will get a letter from MC and yes in almost all cases, they will back down as MC may threaten them with fines.

Mike said:

What they are supposed to do per merchant agreement is to refuse to take your card until you sign it - they are signature cards!

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If that's what I have to do, I will, but until that day comes I'll rely on the ignorance at the counter to work in my favor.

Mike said:

First, some states do have laws against writing down any info from an ID or phone number in a credit card transaction, e.g., california, and I have sued under this law in California and obtained a settlement, including some cash to me as the class action representative.

Second, MasterCard's merchant report form can be used against any merchant who displays a MC logog and demands ID to use a signed card, or sets a minimum, or has a fee, to use the MC: http://www.mastercard.com/us/personal/en/contactus/merchantviolations.html

I have spoken to VISA and they have the same rule, though you must report violations thru your card issuing bank - kinda weird as until you reach the upper echelons of the bank, nobody knows what your talking about. See http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13806200/ns/business-consumer_news/:

SNIP

"Can merchants ask for ID when you make a credit/debit card purchase?
—Lorna M., New York, N.Y.

Visa and MasterCard have similar rules on this. In most cases and in most places, a merchant cannot ask for identification to process your transaction. If the clerk believes the signature on the sales slip does not match the signature on the back of the card, they can call the card verification center and may be instructed to ask for identification.

Merchants are required to ask for picture ID if the signature line is blank. You will be asked to sign the card on the spot. Visa and MasterCard rules say if you refuse to sign, that card cannot be accepted.

Instead of signing their card, a lot of people write “See ID,” or “Ask for ID” in the signature line. They think this will reduce their risk for fraud. The fact is this is not a valid substitute for a signature. If the card is not signed, it cannot be used."

And i have heard AMEX, which used to be silent on the matter, now prohibits merchants, again, thru merchant agreements, to demand ID to use their signature cards - which is what credit cards are. in fact, under Mc and VIOSA rules, you can take a credit card in your name, give it to a friend, she signs it, and now she can use it and merchants must accept it, subject to a reasonable likness test between sig on slip and back of card!

So here's the deal - sign your card! And if you want privacy, issue yourself an authorized user card in a pseudonym - Like S. Clause. Or maybe just your first initial and last name. And sign it and use it. And if ID is demanded, refuse, explain procedures, if management does not allow, leave your stuff there, report them thru MC webiste merchant violation report form, and then follow up with corporate and local management - eventaully, they will get a letter from MC and yes in almost all cases, they will back down as MC may threaten them with fines.

Click to expand...

Again, barring a link from Visa stating that merchants are prohibited from requesting ID, I am leaning toward this being a myth. MasterCard does, in fact, have requesting an ID as a reason to report merchants on their complaint page (linked in an earlier post). Visa does not. Neither does Visa have anywhere on their site (at least that I can find) a statement of policy prohibiting requests for ID.

I continue to lean significantly towards merchants not being permitted to request ID for Visa transactions being a myth. Can someone cite Visa stating otherwise?

Hef said:

If that's what I have to do, I will, but until that day comes I'll rely on the ignorance at the counter to work in my favor.

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And you are promoting the continuation of the myth that Americans are required to have ID to live or travel in teh USA by doing so - each encoutner with clerks and stores can be used to fight this misperception.

eye95 said:

Again, barring a link from Visa stating that merchants are prohibited from requesting ID, I am leaning toward this being a myth. MasterCard does, in fact, have requesting an ID as a reason to report merchants on their complaint page (linked in an earlier post). Visa does not. Neither does Visa have anywhere on their site (at least that I can find) a statement of policy prohibiting requests for ID.

I continue to lean significantly towards merchants not being permitted to request ID for Visa transactions being a myth. Can someone cite Visa stating otherwise?

Click to expand...

I have conferenced called on this subject with VISA General Counsel's office and they confirmed that the VISA policy is the same as Mastercard's - merchants cannot require ID to use signed cards provided the signature card holder passes the reasonmable likness test with her signature.

But just for you, see also http://www.emscard.com/uploads/Documents/rules_for_visa_merchants.pdf at p. 29:

SNIP

"Although Visa rules do not preclude merchants from asking for cardholder ID, merchants cannot make an ID a condition of acceptance. Therefore, merchants cannot refuse to complete a purchase transaction because a cardholder refuses to provide ID . Visa believes merchants should not ask for ID as part of their regular card acceptance procedures. Laws in several states also make it illegal for merchants to write a cardholder's personal information, such as an address or phone number, on a sales receipt."

Mike said:

I have conferenced called on this subject with VISA General Counsel's office and they confirmed that the VISA policy is the same as Mastercard's - merchants cannot require ID to use signed cards provided the signature card holder passes the reasonmable likness test with her signature.

But just for you, see also http://www.emscard.com/uploads/Documents/rules_for_visa_merchants.pdf at p. 29:

SNIP

"Although Visa rules do not preclude merchants from asking for cardholder ID, merchants cannot make an ID a condition of acceptance. Therefore, merchants cannot refuse to complete a purchase transaction because a cardholder refuses to provide ID . Visa believes merchants should not ask for ID as part of their regular card acceptance procedures. Laws in several states also make it illegal for merchants to write a cardholder's personal information, such as an address or phone number, on a sales receipt."

Click to expand...

Thanks, Mike.

It amazes me that Visa does not put this information on their site for consumers and does not provide among the choices listed for merchant complaints the option for reporting merchants who refuse to complete transactions without ID. I notice that merchants are allowed to ask for ID. Customers may refuse to show ID without preventing the transaction from being completed.

I prefer to show ID. Yeah, I know that I will be refunded for a fraudulent transaction. But, it is better to prevent the fraud than to clear it up later.

eye95 said:

Good links, but again, nowhere in those links does it prohibit vendors from checking ID. They can't copy the information from the ID, but nothing says that they may not choose to check it.

So, again, does anyone have a Visa link that actually says that vendors who accept Visa are prohibited from checking ID?

I am beginning to think that vendors being barred from checking ID on those who present Visa cards is as much a myth as not being required to sign your card is.

Click to expand...

On the visa link I provided: "The merchant displayed an improper Visa acceptance mark, did not display Visa signage or displayed Visa signage but refused to accept your Visa card."

By displaying signage but refusing to accept the Visa card, they have broken their merchant agreement.

They are only to check identification for Manual Cash Disbursements and Quasi-Cash Transactions, per the visa international operating regulations, pages 424-426. Separate identification is never required for retail sales.

From page 428 of those guidelines:

A U.S. Acquirer must not, as a regular practice, require a Merchant, and a Merchant must not require a
Cardholder, to provide any supplementary Cardholder information as a condition for honoring a Visa
Card or Visa Electron Card, unless it is required or permitted elsewhere in the U.S. Regional
Operating Regulations. Such supplementary Cardholder information includes, but is not limited to:
• Social Security Number (or any part thereof)
• Fingerprint
• Home or business address or telephone number
• Driver's license number
• Photocopy of a driver's license
• Photocopy of the Visa Card or Visa Electron Card
• Other credit cards

Click to expand...

Sad that I have to do your research for you.

carracer said:

I put "Please ask for Photo ID" on my cards. I refuse to sign as anyone could practice my signature enough to come close. I don't care if it's "Half the contract" or not. Send the signature police after me! If they don't ask for picture ID then I figure I have the right to dispute the charge. I could be anyone.

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Here's why that's dumb. The "see id" is invalid. A merchant is required to have the cardholder sign the back, then can process the card.

Plus, as this prank shows, you can get a card with any name on it.

eye95 said:

I continue to lean significantly towards merchants not being permitted to request ID for Visa transactions being a myth.

Click to expand...

I am curious as to what your basis was to lean significantly in that direction? Was it because no one had given you the link, therefore the opposite must be more than likely true?

carracer said:

I put "Please ask for Photo ID" on my cards. I refuse to sign as anyone could practice my signature enough to come close.

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I sign mine backwards. Yes, in cursive. Also fairly small, but legible.
I defy anyone to copy that, esp. on the fly.

As for encouraging them to demand ID, you're making the problem worse.
Kinda like people who let cops search their car or house or run their guns serial # without a warrant.

MK said:

I am curious as to what your basis was to lean significantly in that direction? Was it because no one had given you the link, therefore the opposite must be more than likely true?

Click to expand...

Absent information one way or another, positive assertions tend to be false and negative assertions tend to be true, i.e. policies tend not to exist as they must be created, and when created, tend to leave a trail.

For example, if someone said that Visa has a policy that purchases over $2000 require a signature on paper, rather than on the electronic pad, then most people (who aren't gullible) would disbelieve this positive assertion and believe the negative assertion (that Visa did not have such a policy) until they see the policy from Visa.

Visa does have a policy statement that vendors cannot require ID to complete a purchase, and Mike linked it. So, now I believe that the policy exists.

It is strange that the pages on their web sites that are intended for the public to view do not mention this policy and do not give customers the opportunity to complain about this practice as they can about other prohibited practices. The link that Mike produced did not even use the domain "visa.com," making it near impossible to customers to find it.

One last example: If someone made the positive assertion that open carry was illegal in Missouri (and you didn't already know whether it was), would you start from the position of believing the law existed, or would you say, "Show me."

does anyone have a Visa link that actually says that vendors who accept Visa are prohibited from checking ID?

Click to expand...

Yes.
See post #22:

http://usa.visa.com/download/merchan...tions-main.pdf
... from page 428 this is absolutely clear:
... a Merchant must not require a Cardholder to provide any supplementary Cardholder information as a condition for honoring a Visa Card

Click to expand...

eye95 said:

Absent information one way or another, positive assertions tend to be false and negative assertions tend to be true, i.e. policies tend not to exist as they must be created, and when created, tend to leave a trail.

For example, if someone said that Visa has a policy that purchases over $2000 require a signature on paper, rather than on the electronic pad, then most people (who aren't gullible) would disbelieve this positive assertion and believe the negative assertion (that Visa did not have such a policy) until they see the policy from Visa.

Visa does have a policy statement that vendors cannot require ID to complete a purchase, and Mike linked it. So, now I believe that the policy exists.

It is strange that the pages on their web sites that are intended for the public to view do not mention this policy and do not give customers the opportunity to complain about this practice as they can about other prohibited practices. The link that Mike produced did not even use the domain "visa.com," making it near impossible to customers to find it.

One last example: If someone made the positive assertion that open carry was illegal in Missouri (and you didn't already know whether it was), would you start from the position of believing the law existed, or would you say, "Show me."

Click to expand...

I thought you believed in some god or another. What happened to all that evidence/assertion stuff?

MKEgal said:

Yes.
See post #22:

Click to expand...

Yes. Mike produced the same PDF. I already acknowledged the existence of the Visa policy.

Unfortunately, the poster who put that PDF up quoted a portion that he thought was support for the existence of such a policy, but it said no such thing, so I dismissed it. Had he just posted the link, I probably would have searched the document, as I did when Mike posted it.

Again, this is directed at merchants, not at customers. I still have not found any confirmation intended for customers, that this policy exists. That is unfortunate. However, it is clear that the policy does indeed exist, as I acknowledged several posts earlier.

eye95 said:

Unfortunately, the poster who put that PDF up quoted a portion that he thought was support for the existence of such a policy, but it said no such thing, so I dismissed it.

Click to expand...

This policy? The one with the word "any"?

...a Merchant must not require a Cardholder, to provide any supplementary Cardholder information as a condition for honoring a Visa Card...

Click to expand...

Just used the MasterCard merchant report form today

http://www.mastercard.us/support/merchant-violations.html

Will be following up with the merchant to ensure he removes his "$20 minimum" sign in a few weeks - by then he will have heard form MasterCard

Mike said:

http://www.mastercard.us/support/merchant-violations.html

Will be following up with the merchant to ensure he removes his "$20 minimum" sign in a few weeks - by then he will have heard form MasterCard

Click to expand...

Changes are in the wind for the 'no minimums' policy, though it may get capped at $10...

http://consumerist.com/2010/09/amex...ive-thumbs-up-to-10-credit-card-minimums.html