Situational Awareness and Open Carry

Michigander said:

I do not understand your point, since no one is debating that. In fact that is a further demonstration of my point, if anything, since the trigger being pulled accidentally/negligently is what the problem is with your holster requiring fine motor skills from your trigger finger in order to draw.

If it can happen while trying to practice, then it could very easily happen in a life and death fight.

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The problem is not the holster, the holster retention device does not require putting the finger in the trigger guard. The LA and highway patrol used a leather holster with similar retention, without anyone shooting themselves, or I have not heard of such. I believe the holster was called the judge. Plus many semi auto holsters and revolver police holsters had open trigger guards, still without problems, it was the standard for police years ago. The USAF Jordan holster had a cutout trigger guard, until the switch to the M-9. The FBI used for years a leather holster with a open trigger guard.

Michigander said:

I do not understand your point, since no one is debating that. In fact that is a further demonstration of my point, if anything, since the trigger being pulled accidentally/negligently is what the problem is with your holster requiring fine motor skills from your trigger finger in order to draw.

If it can happen while trying to practice, then it could very easily happen in a life and death fight.

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The problem is operator error - it is not a problem with the holster.

Where is this "fine motor" skill? It is basic, fundamental gun safety. Do NOT put your finger on the trigger until you are ready to fire.

Training muscle memory does not specifically relate to "fine motor" skill. It is...........ready for it?..............muscle memory. Practice presentations, practice presentations - wash, rinse and repeat.

Willing to bet that the negligent discharges from non-Serpas is directly proportional to the numbers of people carrying other holsters. In other words - no appreciable statistical difference.

WalkingWolf said:

The LA and highway patrol used a leather holster with similar retention, without anyone shooting themselves, or I have not heard of such.

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There is a large difference between having a revolver in a holster that leaves the trigger exposed, and having to sweep a cross strap, or snap open a thumb break in order to draw, as opposed to having to press your trigger finger down into the holster as you draw a SAO or constant action striker fired pistol.

Both seem stupid to me, but still, they are not the same thing.

Michigander said:

There is a large difference between having a revolver in a holster that leaves the trigger exposed, and having to sweep a cross strap, or snap open a thumb break in order to draw, as opposed to having to press your trigger finger down into the holster as you draw a SAO or constant action striker fired pistol.

Both seem stupid to me, but still, they are not the same thing.

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The judge holster release was located at the trigger guard. Actually the release was located in the trigger guard. If anybody should have had a swarm of accidents it should have been them. I never used one, and would not, but it does highlight that the problem is between the ears, and the trigger finger.

View attachment 9570

its so easy to blaim the equiptment and not the user. tex even made a follow up video stating it was completly his fault and not the serpa. i love the "instructors" who claim serpas are so dangerous but yet what is one of the firearm saftey rules?? "keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you intend to fire" or something along those lines. its making these instructors look dumb. yeah you are useing your trigger finger to sweep across a botton thats by the trigger guard to unholster your gun. but whats the key word in the safey rule i stated? STRAIGHT. ive tried (with a empty/safe gun) to make this so called mistake with my dangerous serpa with my various glocks and 1911. i couldnt do it. i even press my trigger finger hard on the button of my serpa to see if it will accidently engage the trigger. didnt happen. unless i dont keep my finger STRAIGHT i will not go in the trigger guard and ND. even when i did curl my finger it ended up along side the fram. could it slip off into the guard in a high stress situation? sure but that can happen with any holster if you are in a hurry. its called trainning and implementing the weapons saftey rules in your trainning. if you dont then you have failed as an instructor. im not saying you have to be a saftey sally cause some rules may be bent in a firefight but they should still be respected cause you do no good if you accidently shoot yourself or your buddies.

Grapeshot said:

Nope - the gun rests just about elbow heigth. Same place my 1911 rests in my Serpa.

Question: If this isn't a belt slide w/o a belt and it isn't a paddle, what is it? Rubber cement or epoxy? :lol:

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I guess it's just the way how it's focused on the gun makes it look off somehow.

It looks exactly like my Serpa Blackhawk Paddle holster The belt attachment and the paddle attachment mount to the holster with the same 3 screws. I usually use the paddle attachment. My personal experience is that if adjusted properly, you will NOT easily be able to pull this paddle off the belt. I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm just saying, when I put my firearm away and take my holster off, it's not just a simple pull. ;o)

WalkingWolf said:

The judge holster release was located at the trigger guard. Actually the release was located in the trigger guard. If anybody should have had a swarm of accidents it should have been them. I never used one, and would not, but it does highlight that the problem is between the ears, and the trigger finger.

View attachment 9570

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What I found on google when I looked up "judge holster" was exposed trigger guards on revolvers with a cross strap or thumb break.

What you are referring to is an old design called the clamshell by Safety Speed. And yeah, I think it looks considerably worse than the serpa. At least under ideal range conditions where someone is being careful the serpa should work alright. The clamshell actually makes you put your finger by the trigger. :uhoh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GIYViM4OFU

FallonJeeper said:

It looks exactly like my Serpa Blackhawk Paddle holster The belt attachment and the paddle attachment mount to the holster with the same 3 screws. I usually use the paddle attachment. My personal experience is that if adjusted properly, you will NOT easily be able to pull this paddle off the belt. I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm just saying, when I put my firearm away and take my holster off, it's not just a simple pull. ;o)

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I use the Blackhawk paddle as well, and I agree with you completely. With the teeth aligned correctly, it takes more effort to take it off than to put it on.

Ya know what is missing from this thread?

Any posts from the OP defending his statement that "This is a real picture someone from another forum took," despite the photos reality being so severely questioned here in this thread. Worse, ScottE himself seems to have absented himself from the convo completely.

ScottE? Do you have anything to say? Who is the someone, and what is the other forum?

Waiting...probably in vain...