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Can they take your recorder away?

SavageOne

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
577
Location
SEMO, , USA
I will go out on a limb and say any regular visitor to this forum knows that it is a good idea to carry a voice or video recorder with you when you OC. There are more and more examples showing up, of the logic of this, the recording from Philly only one. I must therefore wonder if as more and more people carry recorders, if LEO's, the majority of whom I have great respect for, will start trying different tactics to prevent a record of their interactions. I would say the easiest would be to simply turn of the recorder, but another I think would be to simply move the recorder away from the area and thus diminish or obscure the interaction.

My questions then are, is it legal for a LEO to turn off a recorder and if while searching you for say "officer safety" could they place your recorder on the hood and take you back for questioning at the back of their car? Does anyone know if one can ask that their property be returned to their pockets once it's determined that it poses no danger, or must they wait till the end of the detention?
 

Deanimator

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
Messages
2,083
Location
Rocky River, OH, U.S.A.
Good luck TRYING to turn my recorder off without the PIN, which I'll NEVER disclose absent a court order.

Damage or physically disable it and that's just evidence of additional crimes and civil torts. Evidence tampering is prima facia evidence of a guilty mind.
 

zack991

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2009
Messages
1,535
Location
Ohio, USA
Good luck TRYING to turn my recorder off without the PIN, which I'll NEVER disclose absent a court order.

Damage or physically disable it and that's just evidence of additional crimes and civil torts. Evidence tampering is prima facia evidence of a guilty mind.

This..
 

j4l

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2011
Messages
1,835
Location
fl
Good luck TRYING to turn my recorder off without the PIN, which I'll NEVER disclose absent a court order.

Damage or physically disable it and that's just evidence of additional crimes and civil torts. Evidence tampering is prima facia evidence of a guilty mind.

YOU are the once recording, not the officer. So it isnt "evidence" nor would it likely be admissable as such. A key factor many of you who advocate recording everything fail to grasp.
If in digital form, and by some small miracle you do find a court willing to admit it into evidence, be prepared to verify 100 ways to Sunday and back, that it is the original, and un-edited recording. The same standards of verifying such evidence that a LEO's evidence section have to live up to in order to sumbit such evidence against you applies equally to you, in most cases/places.

http://www.videoforensicexpert.com/.../original-digital-media-evidence-is-mandatory
 

HandyHamlet

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
2,772
Location
Terra, Sol
When you upload your recording to Youtube and the media gets ahold of it the contempt of cop charges are most likely (hopefully) dropped. The recording will then be used in your civil suit against the officer, his boss, and the city.


http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...u-can-t-film-the-police&p=1515511#post1515511

So what's the point of the advertisement? There is no point in recording unless we have Ed the video forensic expert on speed dial?
 
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Mike

Site Co-Founder
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
8,706
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
I don't carry a recorder and have never had any problem with police while open carrying in Virginia, Ohio, West Virginia, Kentucky, Pennsylvania, and North Carolina.

However if I did think the police in my state might violate my rights, I might (after closely checking state recording laws) carry two recorders. One that's obvious, and if they confiscate it, continue recording with the covert recorder :)

That way, you have a recording of the seizure of the other recorder that continues throughout the encounter.
 
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j4l

Regular Member
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Jan 6, 2011
Messages
1,835
Location
fl
No,sport, it's for the factual information regarding the acceptance of data forensics, should some Darwin Awardee on here have ideas of going to court with their "evidence".
And, Im glad you brought up the youtube concept.Whether it has happened yet, or not, at some point,when/if these types of things become more frequent, you can probably bank on most LE dept.'s and FOP organizations looking at how to counter such things. The counter to it already exists, it's just a matter of time before someone ends up facing a DA/ADA somewhere that knows to look at it, and decides to press charges based on it.
Once that vid gets up-loaded, congrats,genius, you've just opened the door to some Federal charges against you as well,if it is determined that said video was less than legal (ie: consent of both parties in places that require it).
Just because no one's gotten around to it yet, doesnt mean it wont soon happen.
 

Chap

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2011
Messages
213
Location
Greenville, MS
Good point about being original

If in digital form, and by some small miracle you do find a court willing to admit it into evidence, be prepared to verify 100 ways to Sunday and back, that it is the original, and un-edited recording.

I wonder if my uploading with my IPhone using QIK to the QIK server would cover that question.
[video]http://qik.com/video/3705334[/video]

The court can subpoena the answer from QIK to prove the video was uploaded and hasn't been altered.

Chap
 
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j4l

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2011
Messages
1,835
Location
fl
I wonder if my uploading with my IPhone using QIK to the QIK server would cover that question.
[video]http://qik.com/video/3705334[/video]

The court can subpoena the answer from QIK to prove the video was uploaded and hasn't been altered.

Chap

They can,but it would not need meet the standards for verifying whether or not the original recording wasnt alterered prior to being uploaded. Hence, the link I provided earlier. (it explains that in detail,yet briefly,without going into an entire Data Forensics s course)...The media has to be on the device that captured it originally,and in it's original format,etc.
 

Yard Sale

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
Messages
708
Location
Northern Nevada, ,
Damage or physically disable it and that's just evidence of additional crimes and civil torts. Evidence tampering is prima facia evidence of a guilty mind.
Cite for the tampering?

They don't have to disable anything, just "disappear" it. That's what happened to one of my video cameras and my notebook.

"What recorder? He didn't have any recorder."

"The recorder? Sure, it's right there on the vehicle inventory. That shows it was in the vehicle when it was towed to the impound yard. Once it's towed, we can't be held responsible."
 

j4l

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2011
Messages
1,835
Location
fl
Gee wiz Dad. You've never been to the YouTubes have you? Heard of this new fangled thing called "Google"?

They say it's your friend.


Look! The EASTER BUNNY!

And yes,sport, google is indeed your friend, or foe in your case, since you choose to selectively search for things..

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...ording+of+a+police+officer&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=

But let's save you some trouble and time. This one article details a number of cases, nation-wide ruling AGAINST the person recording. Any one have any cites to demonstrate these cases having been over-turned? These folks have been having much the same discussion as we have here-most of the answers, as they have found, were not in their favor, in the least.
http://bikersofamerica.blogspot.com/2011/01/war-on-cameras.html
 

HandyHamlet

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
2,772
Location
Terra, Sol
Golly Dad! And the thousands of victims who have been exonerated by their videos, like the guy in the link I provided, are just a figment of my Easter Grass addled mind!

That's my skull! I'm SOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooo wasted!
 

j4l

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2011
Messages
1,835
Location
fl
Golly Dad! And the thousands of victims who have been exonerated by their videos, like the guy in the link I provided, are just a figment of my Easter Grass addled mind!

That's my skull! I'm SOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooo wasted!

Thousands? Really? Cite please...didnt think so,either. One guy/one case, and a case far from over yet, doesnt have anything to do with the other dozen or more documented cases where it has back-fired on the poor Darwin Awardee.
 

j4l

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2011
Messages
1,835
Location
fl
Nor do actual court cases,and their ultimate outcomes.The whining of photographers about their recording without consent (again, that awful word,specifically placed in most 2-party consent state's laws) dont quiet carry the same weight..
 

HandyHamlet

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
2,772
Location
Terra, Sol
Yes, because people who know and exercise their Constitutional Rights are all whiners.

Oh wait.





Nice try submarining people's efforts to be prudent here. And insulting them. And completely ignoring the fact that if they record the chances they actually go to trial for criminal charges is greatly reduced.

Goggle search: "charges dropped after video"

http://www.google.com/search?q=char...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
 
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