• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Seattle citizen threatens me with Citizen Arrest for legal carry

RogueReflections

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2013
Messages
125
Location
Tacoma, Washington, United States
As an open carry advocate and public photographer, I am at many marches, protests and rallies throughout the state of Washington. Police officers and citizens know me as Rogue. The ****** bag in this video HATES guns and anyone who own them. When he first encountered me, months ago, he called my a baby killer and a terror. In this video, he deduced I was conceal carrying and demanded to see my "permit" and drivers license....and that I was under Citizen Arrest. Of course I laughed and started rolling video.
For those wondering why I referred to Seattle Police Officers as "pigs" in the video, it is because I personally observed them attacking innocent people (myself included) that day. I was not happy with the behavior of the police.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sylq_LLr-ns

- Rogue Reflections -
 

rightwinglibertarian

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2014
Messages
827
Location
Seattle WA
Sounds like what they are called here in the UK. Pigs and even filth. Usually if someone says "I smell bacon" and it appears out of context the 'old bill' are about.

Sent from my GT-I8190N using Tapatalk
 

Super6O

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
64
Location
Goddard, KS
Might consider an audio recorder for those moments you dont have video going. Would have been gold to hear this pants wetter making threats of "arrest"


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Lord Sega

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2010
Messages
311
Location
Warrenton, Oregon
snip... In this video, he deduced I was conceal carrying and demanded to see my "permit" and drivers license....and that I was under Citizen Arrest.

Rogue, prior to you recording, did he say that you are under citizen's arrest, or that he should put you are under citizen's arrest, or that he could put you are under citizen's arrest?

I'm not sure about Washington's rules on citizen's arrest.

If should / could, then he was just stating an empty threat, as you know.
BUT, if he said that he is making a citizen's arrest, then you are under arrest, stop talking, stand quietly, and wait for the LEOs.
If he doesn't call them, you should. (That would be an interesting conversation).
Obviously the arrest would be illegal (under what you describe), but once he states that you are under citizen's arrest then you are arrested and detained AND the responsibility and liability falls on him... he has to turn you over to the police, file the proper reports / forms, show up in court, etc.

After the court laughs and throws it out, you counter with a civil suit for false arrest (don't forget to include the stress and mental anguish he put you through) $$$.

Also, early in the video, he is yelling out to the crowd: "this man has a weapon", "this man has a pistol".
Would this fit under "breach of the peace" or disorderly conduct?
If, under Washington law, this attempt to instill fear and panic to the surrounding crowd is illegal, then you could have placed him under citizen's arrest (using only the force necessary to detain him) until you hand him over to the LEOs (video proof copy e-mailed home while waiting, then shown to the officers). I wouldn't, but the possibilities are interesting.

In Oregon, ORS 133.220 allows arrest by private person, and ORS 133.225 gives the details and "A private person making such an arrest shall, without unnecessary delay, take the arrested person before a magistrate or deliver the arrested person to a peace officer." Use of physical force by private person making citizens arrest is detailed in ORS 161.255

While states differ, Oregon and Washington are very similar (but not exact) so research Washington law (and let us know).
 

Primus

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
3,939
Location
United States
Your under arrest! No YOUR under arrest! No you were under arrest FIRST! No I have the gun!

Lol Id actually watch that video.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
 

Lord Sega

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2010
Messages
311
Location
Warrenton, Oregon
Your under arrest! No YOUR under arrest! No you were under arrest FIRST! No I have the gun!

Lol Id actually watch that video.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

I would PAY to watch that video. The counter-citizen's arrest is (mostly) in jest, but the first part is serious.

If that happened here in Oregon, I would verify that he's serious about the citizen's arrest, and then walk him through the procedure. (Recording everything, Oregon is a one party consent state).
1) Have him formally state that he is placing me under citizen's arrest.
2) I would acknowledge the arrest and inform him that I will not resist in any way and will quietly await the LEOs.
3) Have him call the LEOs and notify them that he (state his name) has arrested (my name) and that he needs to by law hand me over to police custody.
4) I'm pretty sure he can not un-arrest me, should the police dispatch try to talk him into letting me (and the incident) go.
5) Even if the LEOs, after arriving and taking custody of the situation (and me) talk him into dropping it, I don't have to drop it. I would insist on filing my own incident report, thus forcing them and the guy to file their own reports.
6) Wait for the DA to drop it, or the courts to drop it.
7) File charges for false arrest / false imprisonment against him and/or sue in civil court (depending on my lawyer's advice).

Just my .02c
 

Lord Sega

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2010
Messages
311
Location
Warrenton, Oregon
... or better yet:

"Hey, where are you going? You just arrested me, I'm in your custody, you can't just walk away."
*follow him, not too close but still close enough.*
"I'm in your custody, you have to take me to the police and turn me over... hey, wait up."
*heavy breathing* "Slow down, I'm an old, over weight smoker, I can't keep up with you."
{question, if I had a heart attack right then, while under his arrest / custody, could he be sued by my family for wrongful death?}
"Dude, you are required by law to turn me over to the police as soon as possible... you're breaking the law, hey get back here."
...etc

At what point do you walk away and "un-arrest" yourself?
Also, after following him for several blocks waiting for him to hand you over to the police and you walk away, he sees you leave the area and then calls it in and adds on escaping custody as well?

Sorry, it's a weird night and my brain is jumping sideways, but it's still a fun hypothetical scenario.
 

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
Might consider an audio recorder for those moments you dont have video going. Would have been gold to hear this pants wetter making threats of "arrest"


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have been on the other side ... making or threatening a CA. Nothing wrong with threatening ~ a CA is a legal act. If you perform it and actually arrest, this is where one puts himself in the position of having possible civil penalties applied to the person who performs a CA w/o good cause.

Lord Sega is funny .. I don't think following the guy and then claiming you were in his custody might get much cash. Funny though.
 

Alpine

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
671
Location
Idaho
I was wondering if you'd be out there covering the Maydayhem Rogue.

If you think that is bad, just wait until the new SPD chief comes in. The final 3 candidates are from CA, MA, and AZ. What is the liklhood they'd pick the AZ one? Low.

Most likely we'll get the CA guy or the MASS guy, and we both know how those states are with guns. My guess is expect a whole new SPD that bucks state law. Hopefully no OCers get shot in the next decade by SPD.
 

Difdi

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
987
Location
Seattle, Washington, USA
With three exceptions, citizen's arrest in Washington is legally identical to the sort of arrest police make.

The first difference is that a citizen's arrest must be immediate -- police can wait a while to make an arrest, but citizens must make an arrest immediately after witnessing a crime or not at all.

The second difference is that police making an arrest can disarm the arrested individual no matter who he or she is, but a citizen cannot legally disarm a police officer when arresting the officer without a judge's order or in self-defense if the officer attempts to resist arrest with the weapon.

The third is that police have qualified immunity to civil lawsuits for actions taken in the line of duty -- if a cop makes a mistake on the law, it may be impossible to sue him. Citizens have no such shield when making arrests.

Aside from those three differences, citizen's arrest is no different from police arrest for the purposes of things like resisting arrest, escape, etc. If someone tells you you are under arrest, take it VERY seriously! If you attempt to escape, that's a crime. Resisting arrest is also a crime, and the person making the arrest is legally allowed to use what force is necessary to accomplish the arrest, stop resistance and prevent escape. This means that if you don't take it seriously and walk away, you could get tackled and fighting back against the guy adds crimes to the list -- resisting arrest isn't self-defense.

Note that nothing prevents two people from arresting eachother. Being under arrest does not stop you from making arrests.
 
Last edited:

Primus

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
3,939
Location
United States
Also, a Google search pulls up a PDF from Department of Licensing that explains it. It seems legit, cites rcw and the case law that backs it up.



Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
 

rightwinglibertarian

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2014
Messages
827
Location
Seattle WA
If you put a bunch of lawyers in the room but tell them all they need to do to get out and get food and drink is to all agree to turn the doorknob counterclockwise you would find them all dead in a week because they cannot all decide on what is a doorknob

The second difference is that police making an arrest can disarm the arrested individual no matter who he or she is, but a citizen cannot legally disarm a police officer when arresting the officer without a judge's order or in self-defense if the officer attempts to resist arrest with the weapon.

The third is that police have qualified immunity to civil lawsuits for actions taken in the line of duty -- if a cop makes a mistake on the law, it may be impossible to sue him. Citizens have no such shield when making arrests.

Aside from those three differences, citizen's arrest is no different from police arrest for the purposes of things like resisting arrest, escape, etc. If someone tells you you are under arrest, take it VERY seriously! If you attempt to escape, that's a crime. Resisting arrest is also a crime, and the person making the arrest is legally allowed to use what force is necessary to accomplish the arrest, stop resistance and prevent escape. This means that if you don't take it seriously and walk away, you could get tackled and fighting back against the guy adds crimes to the list -- resisting arrest isn't self-defense.


Note that nothing prevents two people from arresting each other. Being under arrest does not stop you from making arrests.


This is where is gets very dicey. While you may be technically allowed to Citizen arrest a police officer, what are the chances a cop violating your rights is going to have any respect for a citizens arrest? Citizen arrest may allow you to use extreme force if needed, but when dealing with the police other contradictory laws come into play. Thats not to say I wouldnt try it though. About time people started teaching public servants they are accountable to the citizen and the law.
 

Primus

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
3,939
Location
United States
This is where is gets very dicey. While you may be technically allowed to Citizen arrest a police officer, what are the chances a cop violating your rights is going to have any respect for a citizens arrest? Citizen arrest may allow you to use extreme force if needed, but when dealing with the police other contradictory laws come into play. Thats not to say I wouldnt try it though. About time people started teaching public servants they are accountable to the citizen and the law.

Lol

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
 

wimwag

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2013
Messages
1,049
Location
Doug
This is where is gets very dicey. While you may be technically allowed to Citizen arrest a police officer, what are the chances a cop violating your rights is going to have any respect for a citizens arrest? Citizen arrest may allow you to use extreme force if needed, but when dealing with the police other contradictory laws come into play. Thats not to say I wouldnt try it though. About time people started teaching public servants they are accountable to the citizen and the law.


I give you six months to live.
 
Top