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MSU Carry = Felony?

lil_freak_66

Regular Member
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Sep 8, 2008
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Location
Mason, Michigan
Nope, MSU Ordinance 18.01 goes with preemption,and even if you were to violate..its a very minor misdemeanor

http://trustees.msu.edu/ordinances/ordinances_sec18.html
01 Except as permitted by state law regulating firearms, no person shall possess any firearm or weapon anywhere upon property governed by the Board. Persons residing on property governed by the Board shall store any and all firearms and weapons with the Department of Police and Public Safety.


A few of us have been on campus w/o issue...just make sure you DON'T have any non firearm type weapon(i.e. knife),as they are strictly enforced according to a few of my friends that attend the school.
 
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TheQ

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Aug 2, 2010
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Lansing, Michigan
A Sargent with MSU Public Safety has told me they will enforce their Ordinance on anyone who is in a campus building. Including those carrying firearms. Those traversing campus on a public road would not be charged.

It is a misdemeanor, not a felony. It may be a misdemeanor that would bar a CPL?
 

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
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Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
I spoke with an MSU student who said that even possessing a gun in your car is a felony, I didn't think so, but thought I would ask.

Local municipalities like a college can not make felony ordinances only misdemeanors. They can arrest for state and federal felonies, but can't enact a felonious ordinance.
 

lil_freak_66

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Mason, Michigan
A Sargent with MSU Public Safety has told me they will enforce their Ordinance on anyone who is in a campus building. Including those carrying firearms. Those traversing campus on a public road would not be charged.

It is a misdemeanor, not a felony. It may be a misdemeanor that would bar a CPL?


they could charge all they want,but the way it is written i dont think it would hold up in court
 

DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
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Location
Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
A Sargent with MSU Public Safety has told me they will enforce their Ordinance on anyone who is in a campus building. Including those carrying firearms. Those traversing campus on a public road would not be charged.

It is a misdemeanor, not a felony. It may be a misdemeanor that would bar a CPL?

MCL 28.425o provides that a person with a valid
CPL shall not carry a concealed pistol in a pistolfree zone.
First offense is a state civil infraction.
The following is a list of the premises (excluding
parking lots) included in the statute:
* School or school property, except a parent or
legal guardian who is dropping off or picking up a
child and the pistol is kept in the vehicle
* Public or private day care center
* Sports arena or stadium
* A bar or tavern where sale and consumption of
liquor by the glass is the primary source of
income (does not apply to owner or employee of
the business).
* Any property or facility owned or operated by a
church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other
place of worship, unless authorized by the
presiding official
* An entertainment facility that has a seating
capacity of 2,500 or more
* A hospital
*A dormitory or classroom of a community college,
college, or university
*A casino (R 432.1212, MCL 432.202)

If they truly want to follow state law, then they would ONLY charge a CPL holder carrying concealed with a Civil Infraction and ONLY if they were cc in a dorm or classroom (as underlined above). My guess is that they would charge a CPL holder with a misdemeanor. I don't think one could be charged with both a misdemeanor and a Civil Infraction for the same event (Double Jeopardy??). However, I believe that they could not charge someone who is OC in these areas, as that is allowed by state law, but I could be wrong (IANAL).
 

TheQ

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Messages
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Lansing, Michigan
As I said, MSU Public Safety is of the opinion preemption doesn't apply to them. (I won't state if I agree or disagree, that'd be interjecting my opinion. I'm just stating the facts here).

I was told by Public Safety anyone (CPL or not) in a Campus Building would be brought up on a misdemeanor charge for violating their ordinance. You would be tried in the local District Court (54B District Court of Michigan).

Want to test what would happen if you OC'd in an MSU building (with a CPL or otherwise)? ...it'd be an interesting court case.
 

DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
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Location
Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
As I said, MSU Public Safety is of the opinion preemption doesn't apply to them. (I won't state if I agree or disagree, that'd be interjecting my opinion. I'm just stating the facts here).

I was told by Public Safety anyone in a Campus Building would be brought up on a misdemeanor charge for violating their ordinance. You would be tried in the local District Court (54B District Court of Michigan).

Want to test what would happen if you OC'd in an MSU building (with a CPL or otherwise)? ...it'd be an interesting court case.

The preemption law really is not an issue... their ordinance states "Except as permitted by state law...". If that is true, then OC by a CPL holder/ non-holder would be allowed everywhere on campus, except if it falls under a prohibition listed in Michigan law. But, if the officer feels that part of the ordinance is just 'extra', then the Leos are writing their own laws. The ordinance clearly says a person is not in violation if he or she is following state law; why does this officer think the ordinance does not allow carry in a building?
 

DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,272
Location
Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
Same reason you can't carry ad CADL, I can't carry in Waterford schools, and LilFreak cant get an LTP.

Apples and oranges:
CADL- the reason I can't carry there is a TRO.
Waterford Schools- can't carry there because schools are not covered under preemption
MSU- can't carry there because a cop thinks we can't. It appears that his bosses, the MSU board, think otherwise.
 

xmanhockey7

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
1,195
Apples and oranges:
CADL- the reason I can't carry there is a TRO.
Waterford Schools- can't carry there because schools are not covered under preemption
MSU- can't carry there because a cop thinks we can't. It appears that his bosses, the MSU board, think otherwise.

How are public schools not under preemption?
 

Onnie

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2010
Messages
664
Location
Maybee, Michigan
How are public schools not under preemption?

28.425o Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited; “premises” defined; exceptions to subsection (1); violation; penalties.

Sec. 5o.

(1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:

(a) A school or school property except that a parent or legal guardian of a student of the school is not precluded from carrying a concealed pistol while in a vehicle on school property, if he or she is dropping the student off at the school or picking up the child from the school. As used in this section, "school" and "school property" mean those terms as defined in section 237a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.237a.
 

lapeer20m

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
928
Location
Near Lapeer (Hadley), Michigan, USA
How are public schools not under preemption?

because mcl 123.1101 defines "a local unit of government" and it does not include school districts.

a) “Local unit of government” means a city, village, township, or county.

http://legislature.mi.gov/(S(xw13v1...g.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-123-1101

it is still lawful to cc in the parking areas of school property, or in your vehicle while picking up/dropping your child even if not technically in a 'parking area". It is also ok to oc with cpl anywhere you are allowed to be while at a school. If asked to leave by the correct person and you refuse you may face a trespassing charge. Are schools allowed to make rules regarding possession of firearms? It is difficult to say, but they do not appear to be covered by preemption under mcl 123.1102.
 
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xmanhockey7

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
1,195
because mcl 123.1101 defines "a local unit of government" and it does not include school districts.



http://legislature.mi.gov/(S(xw13v1...g.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-123-1101

it is still lawful to cc in the parking areas of school property, or in your vehicle while picking up/dropping your child even if not technically in a 'parking area". It is also ok to oc with cpl anywhere you are allowed to be while at a school. If asked to leave by the correct person and you refuse you may face a trespassing charge. Are schools allowed to make rules regarding possession of firearms? It is difficult to say, but they do not appear to be covered by preemption under mcl 123.1102.

If that's the case, I don't see MOC winning their court case.
 

TheQ

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Messages
3,379
Location
Lansing, Michigan
If that's the case, I don't see MOC winning their court case.

The Library is an Authority formed by 2 local governments, the City of Lansing and the County of Ingham. The Municipal Authority act says an Authority can only exercise powers that each local unit can exercise individually. Please read the numerous threads on this topic. This point gas been brought up many times. Please educate yourself before publicizing an opinion that's already been shot down.

ETA: A school is NOT an Authority.
 
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