• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Another City prohibits open carry

SixGunCowboy

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Messages
111
Location
Somewhere
Missouri State Law

Okay, as I understand it, Missouri State Law says that cities and municipalities can "regulate" open carry, but is it legal that they can ban it on the Missouri side?
 

WOD

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2012
Messages
224
Location
Onalaska WA
Someone needs to get their Representatives busy working on a Preemption Law before these ordinances spread. You all know they will spread too...
 

SixGunCowboy

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Messages
111
Location
Somewhere
Unfortunate, but true, WOD. If a pre-emption law isn't passed and soon, even Kansas City may adopt ordinances that outlaw Open carry. Already, Excelsior Springs has adopted such an ordinance. I just hope and pray something is done and soon. Or we may all lose our rights to Open carry.
 

mechanicworkman

Regular Member
Joined
May 30, 2011
Messages
200
Location
St. Louis
In the article link above:

"Reno also said that while it would technically be illegal for someone to carry a firearm on his or her way to hunt or target shoot outside the city limits, police officers would have some discretion and respond to such incidents on a case-by-case basis"

Is this true? Outside the city limits as well. Police have the discretion to respond? Obviously I do not work at 911 but, every time i have heard of a MWAG call the police respond................talk about playing with words.

Whom ever wrote this article seems to be swaying the article to to justify to the public that is somehow OK to take away citizens rights before anyone has committed a crime and attempting to justify criminalizing something and calling it for the good of the people. ---seems like Missouri is going down hill fast
 

Redbaron007

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2011
Messages
1,613
Location
SW MO
Curious what prompted them to pass this. Was it a recent encounter? Did someone put a bug in their ear? Have there been any other towns around there that did this? I can't believe this was passed out of thin air.....someone/something prompted this.....IMHO.:confused:
 

LMTD

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Apr 8, 2010
Messages
1,919
Location
, ,
Curious what prompted them to pass this. Was it a recent encounter? Did someone put a bug in their ear? Have there been any other towns around there that did this? I can't believe this was passed out of thin air.....someone/something prompted this.....IMHO.:confused:

Because police chiefs have excessive influence on muni boards. Hence the response to "inquiries" comment from the police chief. The police chief association is a very active anti-gun org and outs money up on a regular basis to fight citizens having guns.

You should have seen the illegal dog and pony show the chesterfield mayor and police chief put on last year, it was pathetic, took over 20 minutes of the meeting while citizens got held to the three minute limit. Not to mention the doctored "evidence" they produced without allowing for alternative views, a couple of true PUNKS is what they are sir, punks. Does not change the fact that they had the power to do it, does not change the fact no one has the power to fight the gate keepers, but does make it clear that at the muni level, you pretty much can not trust the council person to do anything beyond retaining their own power regardless of the law.

That is how it came about, does not change just because it is on the other side of the state, it was just slower developing over there and depending upon a very few factors, it may indeed spread rapidly.
 

Redbaron007

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2011
Messages
1,613
Location
SW MO
Because police chiefs have excessive influence on muni boards. Hence the response to "inquiries" comment from the police chief. The police chief association is a very active anti-gun org and outs money up on a regular basis to fight citizens having guns.

You should have seen the illegal dog and pony show the chesterfield mayor and police chief put on last year, it was pathetic, took over 20 minutes of the meeting while citizens got held to the three minute limit. Not to mention the doctored "evidence" they produced without allowing for alternative views, a couple of true PUNKS is what they are sir, punks. Does not change the fact that they had the power to do it, does not change the fact no one has the power to fight the gate keepers, but does make it clear that at the muni level, you pretty much can not trust the council person to do anything beyond retaining their own power regardless of the law.

That is how it came about, does not change just because it is on the other side of the state, it was just slower developing over there and depending upon a very few factors, it may indeed spread rapidly.


You are 100% correct about the council members. And if you do not live in the city limits or have a hefty size business in the city; you are silent in their eyes...at least here. A resolution was presented a few years ago to ban CCW in the city parks and sidwalks. They pulled it and then passed a resolution supporting the banning of CCW in the city.

We now have a COP who talks they support 2A, including CCW & OC....but I'm just waiting for the city council to pull/reduce funding if he doesn't support any anti-OC bill. Our council is become very liberal and isn't shy about playing politics.:mad::cuss:
 

M1A shooter

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2012
Messages
21
Location
Excelsior Springs, Missouri
Exxcelsior Spring and State Preemption

The Missouri Legislature has claimed all gun right to thenselves but the various codes that apply seem to have a few loopholes that cities can use. No one will tell me what these looholes are . I have read RSMo 21.750 in full as well as the related codes and honestly can't see what Excelsior could have used to ban open carry. Look up 21.750 and read all of it and the related links and see for yourself.

Four councilmen passed this with no comment. A 4-0 vote to strip us of a State Right.
 

mspgunner

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2009
Messages
1,966
Location
Ellisville, Missouri, USA
The Missouri Legislature has claimed all gun right to thenselves but the various codes that apply seem to have a few loopholes that cities can use. No one will tell me what these looholes are . I have read RSMo 21.750 in full as well as the related codes and honestly can't see what Excelsior could have used to ban open carry. Look up 21.750 and read all of it and the related links and see for yourself.

Four councilmen passed this with no comment. A 4-0 vote to strip us of a State Right.

Here you go:
See 21.750.3
Missouri Revised Statutes
Chapter 21
General Assembly
Section 21.750

August 28, 2011



Firearms legislation preemption by general assembly, exceptions--limitation on civil recovery against firearms or ammunitions manufacturers, when, exception.
21.750. 1. The general assembly hereby occupies and preempts the entire field of legislation touching in any way firearms, components, ammunition and supplies to the complete exclusion of any order, ordinance or regulation by any political subdivision of this state. Any existing or future orders, ordinances or regulations in this field are hereby and shall be null and void except as provided in subsection 3 of this section.
2. No county, city, town, village, municipality, or other political subdivision of this state shall adopt any order, ordinance or regulation concerning in any way the sale, purchase, purchase delay, transfer, ownership, use, keeping, possession, bearing, transportation, licensing, permit, registration, taxation other than sales and compensating use taxes or other controls on firearms, components, ammunition, and supplies except as provided in subsection 3 of this section.
3. Nothing contained in this section shall prohibit any ordinance of any political subdivision which conforms exactly with any of the provisions of sections 571.010 to 571.070, with appropriate penalty provisions, or which regulates the open carrying of firearms readily capable of lethal use or the discharge of firearms within a jurisdiction, provided such ordinance complies with the provisions of section 252.243.
 

M1A shooter

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2012
Messages
21
Location
Excelsior Springs, Missouri
Like I said...

As I said, I have read 21.750 in its entirety as well as 571.010 through 571.070 and 252.243. I can not see anything that applies to this city wide ban. I have posed the question to Kevin L. Jamison, Esq. A pre-emminent gun rights lawyer. I am trying to set up an open holster protest at the next city council meeting too.
 

mspgunner

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2009
Messages
1,966
Location
Ellisville, Missouri, USA
As I said, I have read 21.750 in its entirety as well as 571.010 through 571.070 and 252.243. I can not see anything that applies to this city wide ban. I have posed the question to Kevin L. Jamison, Esq. A pre-emminent gun rights lawyer. I am trying to set up an open holster protest at the next city council meeting too.

Did you read the above post, it answers your question.
 

M1A shooter

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2012
Messages
21
Location
Excelsior Springs, Missouri
Yes I did

I read your post and it did not answer my question. I read all oft he applicable codes and still see no line item they can apply to this situation. We do not have any TIF funded construction projects nor any game or wildlife preserves and any of the other thing they have to meet EXACTLY to enact a prohibition.
 

M1A shooter

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2012
Messages
21
Location
Excelsior Springs, Missouri
AS far as preemption.../

This says it all...


21.750. 1. The general assembly hereby occupies and preempts the entire field of legislation touching in any way firearms, components, ammunition and supplies to the complete exclusion of any order, ordinance or regulation by any political subdivision of this state. Any existing or future orders, ordinances or regulations in this field are hereby and shall be null and void except as provided in subsection 3 of this section.

Then you read all the attachments to subsection 3 and you find definitions and specification on areas or reasons that can trigger prohibition.
 

mspgunner

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2009
Messages
1,966
Location
Ellisville, Missouri, USA
I read your post and it did not answer my question. I read all oft he applicable codes and still see no line item they can apply to this situation. We do not have any TIF funded construction projects nor any game or wildlife preserves and any of the other thing they have to meet EXACTLY to enact a prohibition.

3. Nothing contained in this section shall prohibit any ordinance of any political subdivision which conforms exactly with any of the provisions of sections 571.010 to 571.070, with appropriate penalty provisions, or which regulates the open carrying of firearms readily capable of lethal use or the discharge of firearms within a jurisdiction, provided such ordinance complies with the provisions of section 252.243

This is the staute by which they can prohibit OC.

If you or some one you know whould like to challange this in court, cool. It is probably unconstitutional in Missouri... Art. 1 Sec. 23 of the Misosuri Constitution.

That or a legislative action is required.

Both are being investigated, the legislative approach (many bills) was tried last year without success. May very well be attempted next year.

That's all I have to say about that.
 

Festus_Hagen

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2010
Messages
490
Location
Jefferson City, Mo., ,
Like Marc says, this part is what they are going on when banning open carry :

3. Nothing contained in this section shall prohibit any ordinance of any political subdivision which conforms exactly with any of the provisions of sections 571.010 to 571.070, with appropriate penalty provisions, or which regulates the open carrying of firearms readily capable of lethal use or the discharge of firearms within a jurisdiction, provided such ordinance complies with the provisions of section 252.243

The bold part needs removed.
 
Top