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A lawyers opinion on OC in a school

Raggs

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2012
Messages
1,181
Location
Wild Wild West Michigan
From Facebook
George Gostias: As an attorney, former mcrgo volunteer, and NRA instructor I can tell you that you there is way to much misinformation on the web. If that is where you get your legal advice from you are headed for trouble. DO NOT, i repeat, do not carry a firearm onto school property. Federal law still prohibits that. see gun free school zones act of 1990.

What do you guys think?
 

smellslikemichigan

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
2,307
Location
Troy, Michigan, USA
From Facebook
George Gostias: As an attorney, former mcrgo volunteer, and NRA instructor I can tell you that you there is way to much misinformation on the web. If that is where you get your legal advice from you are headed for trouble. DO NOT, i repeat, do not carry a firearm onto school property. Federal law still prohibits that. see gun free school zones act of 1990.

What do you guys think?

do you have a link? i don't see this on his law firm page. the MSP also disagree with him. not to mention current MCRGO attorney Steve Dulan and MCRGO also acknowledges the legality of open carry in schools. so does MOC.
 
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TheQ

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Messages
3,379
Location
Lansing, Michigan
Federal law provides an exemption for people who have a permit issued from the state the GFSZ is in if that permit was issued after a background check has been done.

If this wasn't the case, you couldn't OC or CC a pistol in a city because you'd almost always be within 1000' of a school.
 

DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,272
Location
Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
From Facebook
George Gostias: As an attorney, former mcrgo volunteer, and NRA instructor I can tell you that you there is way to much misinformation on the web. If that is where you get your legal advice from you are headed for trouble. DO NOT, i repeat, do not carry a firearm onto school property. Federal law still prohibits that. see gun free school zones act of 1990.

What do you guys think?

Although the attorney may be trying to dissuade gun owners from doing so, and MAY be correct regarding a person just taking their pistol and carrying it at a school, the fact remains that Federal law does NOT prohibit those who have a license issued by the state in which the school is located, which required a background check before it was issued, from possessing the firearm in a school.

If he thinks that a Michigan license to purchase, carry, etc does not meet that requirement, he MAY be correct. And in the dictum regarding a charge in which that issue had absolutely no bearing on the actual decision, at least one Lansing area judge may actually hold the same personal opinion.

But, as the case in which the Kent County prosecutor decided no law was violated when a CPL holder carried while voting at a school in Grand Rapids showed, when people are asked to prosecute actual violations of the law, they will likely choose to follow the law even though they personally disagree with what the law clearly states. Knowing the prosecutor's desire to aggressively prosecute those who violate the law, I'm sure the prosecutor would have done so if he had even the remotest chance of being successful.

My guess is that this attorney is attempting to express something that is more wishful thinking than an understanding based on a reading of the law. This statement only shows that not all self-identified gun-law experts are.

If I had to find an attorney to represent me in regards to anything having to do with firearms and I saw this person's name as possible representation, I would keep looking.

Were you surprised that a supposed advocate would be so willing to throw OC under the bus in the furtherance of personal desires? Considering the most recent discussions regarding sb59, this attitude is no shock to me.
 
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griffin

Regular Member
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Aug 16, 2011
Messages
871
Location
Okemos, MI
In general, the guy is wrong. There is only ONE case in the entire USA that I am aware of where this wasn't true, and it was in GA (I think) where the .gov argued that GA gave carry licenses out like candy without doing real background checks, so GA authorities didn't follow the federal guidelines for the exemption.
 

Michigander

Regular Member
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Aug 24, 2007
Messages
4,818
Location
Mulligan's Valley
Back in 2009, when I took my CPL class, Dean Greenblatt detailed how and why OC in CEZ's is legal, and for the same reasons why so many of us state that it is.

It really isn't complicated.
 

MKEgal

Regular Member
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Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
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in front of my computer, WI
George Gostias said:
As an attorney, former mcrgo volunteer, and NRA instructor I can tell you...
do not carry a firearm onto school property. Federal law still prohibits that. ee gun free school zones act of 1990.

I think he needs to learn how to read federal law at least as well as a regular person.
There are a handful of conditions that make having a firearm on school property perfectly legal according to federal law.
 

davidmcbeth

Banned
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Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
The law is not written in Klingon ... people can read law and case law and find out stuff pretty well .. as we see on this thread.

Good job guys.
 

SpringerXDacp

New member
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
3,341
Location
Burton, Michigan
http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/batf_school_zone.pdf

18 USC, Section 922(q) (2) (B) (ii):

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922

(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
 

DanM

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
1,928
Location
West Bloomfield, Michigan, USA
Noiw is the time to open carry at K-12 schools in Michigan - the Governor demands it!

Yes, the governor has left CC'ers with the same option they always had before: OC in PFZs. I would encourage them to exercise the carry legally available to them, as they see fit while going about their business.

It is better that CC'ers get comfortable with OC and practice it in PFZs, rather than be gun-rights turn-coats and help get it banned.
 
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OC4me

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2009
Messages
750
Location
Northwest Kent County, Michigan
From Facebook
George Gostias: As an attorney, former mcrgo volunteer, and NRA instructor I can tell you that you there is way to much misinformation on the web. If that is where you get your legal advice from you are headed for trouble. DO NOT, i repeat, do not carry a firearm onto school property. Federal law still prohibits that. see gun free school zones act of 1990.

What do you guys think?

Perhaps some OCers can email photos of themselves carrying at their local school to this guy. He may have trouble reading statutes but like they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.
 
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springerdave

Regular Member
Joined
May 16, 2008
Messages
665
Location
Northern lower & Keweenaw area, Michigan, USA
www.cmda-law.com/.../Firearms+Open+Carry+is+Legal+in+Michigan


Check out the column from the On Law October 2012 issue. Ms Linda Davis Friedland wrote that open carry w/ CPL is indeed lawful in Michigan schools. I do not know how to post a link other than giving you the above web-site info. Interesting article. I am faced with a local prosecutor in the county north of me (MontMorenci)who says that it is a crime unless you have your box checked on your permit. More later.springerdave.
 
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