FBI Raid wrong house W/ a CHAINSAW.

Sig229 · Feb 3, 2012

PDinDetroit said:
What Judge in their Right Mind would approve of using a Chainsaw to gain access to a residence to execute a Warrant?

What Police Chief/Police Department in their Right Mind would approve of using a Chainsaw to gain access to a residence to execute a Warrant?

HEADS NEED TO ROLL!

I doubt the judge who issued the warrant had no idea what tools the agents were going to use at the raid.
Also, I dont know if you have ever seen a judge approve a warrant, buts its a really quick process.
Usually the officer tells the judge what PC they have and the judge just has the LEO swear that the evidence in the written warrant is truthful . When the LEO responds "yes" the judge just signs the warrant and thats it.

But I gotta tell you, its very common for LEO's to "fudge" the facts to gain PC for a warrant. I know people like to think that LEO's have "no reason to lie" but thast total ********.
I have seen with my own eyes arrest and search warrants contain a large number of inconsistencies, errors and at times complete lies.

One thing you all should know if you dont already, is that 99.9% of LEO's HATE to be thin that they may be wrong.
And even when they do realize they may be wrong about something, its difficult for them to admit it.

sudden valley gunner · Feb 4, 2012

Sig229 said:
I doubt the judge who issued the warrant had no idea what tools the agents were going to use at the raid.
Also, I dont know if you have ever seen a judge approve a warrant, buts its a really quick process.
Usually the officer tells the judge what PC they have and the judge just has the LEO swear that the evidence in the written warrant is truthful . When the LEO responds "yes" the judge just signs the warrant and thats it.

But I gotta tell you, its very common for LEO's to "fudge" the facts to gain PC for a warrant. I know people like to think that LEO's have "no reason to lie" but thast total ********.
I have seen with my own eyes arrest and search warrants contain a large number of inconsistencies, errors and at times complete lies.

One thing you all should know if you dont already, is that 99.9% of LEO's HATE to be thin that they may be wrong.
And even when they do realize they may be wrong about something, its difficult for them to admit it.

I have not read a non traffic police report (and only few of those) that hasn't had lies or misleading information or omission of facts that help the officer taint the minds of a judge or jury toward his actions as being justifiable.

I also understand human nature to want to protect your own ass, but here's a novel idea to protect your ass, don't lie on the report and if they don't have solid PC or evidence then they shouldn't involve themselves. But of course then the higher ups in the department think you aren't doing your job. And no matter what cops claim, they are rated on the amount of arrests they make. This is why I say the policing system needs to change. It is simply a corrupt system that has little to do with justice.

jgregel · Feb 15, 2012

Aknazer said:
If I heard/saw a chainsaw working on taking out my door I would either be putting a few rounds with my shotgun through the door or I would be grabbing my rifle with green-tipped 5.56 ammo to put through the door since I know those rounds are more likely to properly get through the door compared to my handgun. And I would NOT expect my government to be "serving" a warrant via a chainsaw.

That green-tip 5.56 goes through just about anything. I keep a side by side double magazine in my AR that is loaded with both green tip and hunting ballistic tips alternated. You never know what you will be shooting at (body armored or not) so why take the chance of having the wrong ammo in your rifle. My rule of thumb is anyone kicking in my door (or in this case using a chain saw) is my enemy and will be shot.

I'm a good, law abiding person so there is no reason for any law enforcement to break down my door. So, anyone breaking down my door is automatically assumed to be evil scum deserving of death regardless of who they claim to be. I also do practice drills from different areas of my house to deal with this if it ever does happen. Got to always have a plan.

John

Sig229 · Feb 15, 2012

jgregel said:
That green-tip 5.56 goes through just about anything. I keep a side by side double magazine in my AR that is loaded with both green tip and hunting ballistic tips alternated. You never know what you will be shooting at (body armored or not) so why take the chance of having the wrong ammo in your rifle. My rule of thumb is anyone kicking in my door (or in this case using a chain saw) is my enemy and will be shot.

I'm a good, law abiding person so there is no reason for any law enforcement to break down my door. So, anyone breaking down my door is automatically assumed to be evil scum deserving of death regardless of who they claim to be. I also do practice drills from different areas of my house to deal with this if it ever does happen. Got to always have a plan.

John

Yes, the M855 ammo is wonderful. I prefer the Israeli IMI M855.
Do you mean you have one mag with M855 and the other hunting rounds? Or you have every other bullet in one mag a M855 and a hunting tip?

jgregel · Feb 16, 2012

Sig229 said:
Yes, the M855 ammo is wonderful. I prefer the Israeli IMI M855.
Do you mean you have one mag with M855 and the other hunting rounds? Or you have every other bullet in one mag a M855 and a hunting tip?

I alternate m855 and hunting rounds in the same magazine and have two magazines connected side by side. I've killed some wild boars with the Nosler rounds and it knocks them down pretty well with just one shot. I'll assume from my field tests that they would have the same if not better results if I had to defend myself with them. The M855 rounds turns most cover into just concealment and it takes level IV body armor to stop one. Most BGs will not bother with the heavy body armor but they have been know to use the lighter stuff. The point of impact difference out to fifty yards is negligible.

I feel that this is a reasonable tactic unless anyone can give me a good reason to choose one or the other. I live in the country so I'm not supper concerned with over penetration of the M855s.

John

rscottie · Feb 16, 2012

jgregel said:
I alternate m855 and hunting rounds in the same magazine and have two magazines connected side by side. I've killed some wild boars with the Nosler rounds and it knocks them down pretty well with just one shot. I'll assume from my field tests that they would have the same if not better results if I had to defend myself with them. The M855 rounds turns most cover into just concealment and it takes level IV body armor to stop one. Most BGs will not bother with the heavy body armor but they have been know to use the lighter stuff. The point of impact difference out to fifty yards is negligible.

I feel that this is a reasonable tactic unless anyone can give me a good reason to choose one or the other. I live in the country so I'm not supper concerned with over penetration of the M855s.

John

Does it destroy the meat on those boars? Or are you not concerned about that? I have heard they are good eatin'!

jgregel · Feb 16, 2012

rscottie said:
Does it destroy the meat on those boars? Or are you not concerned about that? I have heard they are good eatin'!

The hunting rounds mushroom pretty good and they do lose about 20%-50% of their mass but the wound channel is incredible. I had one complete pass through and one that stopped in the opposite side shoulder blade. Both hogs were over 200 pounds. I prefer a perfect broadside shot right behind the front shoulder about 1/3 to 1/2 the chest height from the bottom. This shot only hits ribs and lungs without any damage to the meat and since I'm hunting just for the meat that's a good thing. Sometimes you can even clip the top of the heart along with the lungs if your shot is down by the point of the elbow. If you do shoot through the shoulder it will damage the meat but that's typical with any hunting bullet. Most of your meat is in the hind quarters and back anyway.

And Yes, they are very tasty critters.

I know, a little off topic but the question was asked.

John

rscottie · Feb 17, 2012

jgregel said:
The hunting rounds mushroom pretty good and they do lose about 20%-50% of their mass but the wound channel is incredible. I had one complete pass through and one that stopped in the opposite side shoulder blade. Both hogs were over 200 pounds. I prefer a perfect broadside shot right behind the front shoulder about 1/3 to 1/2 the chest height from the bottom. This shot only hits ribs and lungs without any damage to the meat and since I'm hunting just for the meat that's a good thing. Sometimes you can even clip the top of the heart along with the lungs if your shot is down by the point of the elbow. If you do shoot through the shoulder it will damage the meat but that's typical with any hunting bullet. Most of your meat is in the hind quarters and back anyway.

And Yes, they are very tasty critters.

I know, a little off topic but the question was asked.

John

Yeah, sorry for the OT...I was thinking with my stomach...

FBI Raid wrong house W/ a CHAINSAW.

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