Oh Yes We Can! - VCDL Picnic 7/14/12 4PM-9PM - Green Hill Park Salem, VA

ed · Jun 11, 2012

Oh Yes We Can! - VCDL Picnic 7/14/12 4PM-9PM - Green Hill Park Salem, VA
Mark your calendars! VCDL is having an "Oh, yes we can!" picnic at a Roanoke County Park on Saturday, July 14th! Big turnout requested.

HISTORY

Roanoke has an ordinance on their books that is so poorly written as to be almost impossible to understand, but could easily be misconstrued to ban firearms in the County's parks:

"15-8 (6) Hunting and firearms. ... No person shall within a park use, carry or possess firearms, ammunition or combinations thereof, as expressly prohibited by statute, or air rifles, spring guns, pellet guns, paintball guns, bow and arrows, slings or any other forms of weapons potentially dangerous to wildlife and to human safety or any instrument that can be loaded with and fire blank cartridges, or any kind of trapping device ..."

EM Ed Levine communicated on behalf of VCDL with the County to fix the wording, but the County Attorney dug in his heals claiming that the wording and intent was quite clear. Yep - clear as mud. The bottom line is that the County CANNOT prohibit otherwise lawful open or concealed carry in their parks.

BIRTH OF A PICNIC

What better way to get a clarification on that ordinance than for VCDL to hold a very large picnic in a Roanoke County park and let the police (and press) know we are doing so? The VCDL Board voted to hold and fund the picnic and you are invited! Thanks to Board member Al Steed Jr. for making the park arrangements.

PICNIC DETAILS

Where:

Green Hill Park, Roanoke County
2501 Parkside Drive
Salem, VA 24153
Shelter #2

Directions/Map: http://tinyurl.com/6rgs56m

When:

4 PM to 9 PM, Saturday, July 14, 2012

Please RSVP with number attending to Al Steed Jr. at: al@vcdl.org
or on Facebook at: https://www.facebook.com/events/350142851720166/

Food:

VCDL will providing the food. However, if you wish to bring a covered dish to share, we would be happy to have it! Let Al know if you are bringing something so he can keep track of what foods will be available.

jmelvin · Jun 11, 2012

Sounds good, I'll make sure we get down there for this and I'll see what I can do to round up some of the others from The Burg.

Grapeshot · Jun 11, 2012

VCDL Roanoke Picnic - Sat. July 14th

"Oh, yes we can!" picnic at a Roanoke County Park on Saturday, July 14th!
4:00 PM - 9:00 PM

Let's do this!

Felix · Jun 12, 2012

Probably don't need two sticky threads announcing the same picnic, Dale.

Ed already started one some six hours earlier than yours.

Should be a good one, gun rights activism at its best, an "in your face" picnic designed to test the county's contested ordinance. Guess there'll be a chance to explore what "expressly prohibited by statute" really means to the local cops and the on-duty county attorney if someone makes a CWG (Crowd with Guns) call. Actually, it appears the first test has already happened, the county Department of Parks issued Al a permit for VCDL to use Shelter #2 for the "Oh Yes We Can!" gathering. Since the usage permit application requires the organization to be listed along with a complete description of the event, they are already on notice

Grapeshot · Jun 12, 2012

Felix said:
Probably don't need two sticky threads announcing the same picnic, Dale. Ed already started one some six hours earlier than yours.

Ooops - must have looked right at it too. Thanks - fixed that.

skidmark · Jun 17, 2012

As if there was not already enough reason for this picnic -

I just saw this

http://www.roanokecountyva.gov/facilities.aspx?search=1&CID=4&RID=23&Page=detail

7/24/2012
2:00 PM

[TD="class: ft_reserv"]Humans vs. Zombies! Glenvar
SUMMER READING PROGRAM ACTIVITY: Come to Green Hill Park and play some Humans vs. Zombies. It's tag with a twist, and Nerf guns. Bring along your Reading Log for a stamp, and earn $10 of library money towards the auction.[/TD]

Click to expand...

They'll spend taxpayer dollars to get kids to come and practice headshots, but get all knotted up about us walking around not bothering anybody and certainly not pointing guns at anyone, let alone actually shooting anyone.

Roanoke County admits Zombies exist, sets up practice on how to defend yourself from Zombies, but will not allow you to carry a means of defense against Zombies. In the words of Private Cowboy (Full Metal Jacket for those of you who don't know):

There's somethin' basically wrong with that.

Click to expand...

stay safe.

nuc65 · Jun 20, 2012

You all should stop in Lynchburg for an OC breakfast before heading out to Salem.

skidmark · Jun 20, 2012

nuc65 said:
You all should stop in Lynchburg for an OC breakfast before heading out to Salem.

1 - the idea has been kicked around.

2 - why aren't you grabbing the bull by the horns and announcing you have set one up? ("If you post it they will come" works almost every time.)

3 - you do know how long it takes to drive from NoVa/Richmond/Hampton roads/Tidewater to Salem, don't you? Then factor in what time folks would need to leave in order to arrive in Lynchburg for breakfast. You could see if a local motel will give a group rate so folks can stay overnight - which also gives you the opportunity to "host" an OC dinner the night before the OC breakfast before the OC picnic. You could bill it as "The 24 Hours of OC".

See what happens when you step up with an idea? You get the chance to head up carrying it out - it's an old VCDL tradition.

stay safe.

nuc65 · Jun 20, 2012

skidmark said:
1 - the idea has been kicked around.

2 - why aren't you grabbing the bull by the horns and announcing you have set one up? ("If you post it they will come" works almost every time.)

3 - you do know how long it takes to drive from NoVa/Richmond/Hampton roads/Tidewater to Salem, don't you? Then factor in what time folks would need to leave in order to arrive in Lynchburg for breakfast. You could see if a local motel will give a group rate so folks can stay overnight - which also gives you the opportunity to "host" an OC dinner the night before the OC breakfast before the OC picnic. You could bill it as "The 24 Hours of OC".

See what happens when you step up with an idea? You get the chance to head up carrying it out - it's an old VCDL tradition.

stay safe.

1 ... been kicked around?

2 ... sure thing, give me a day and I will

3 ... a couple of hotels in the area offer decent rates for a nights sleep and if you all show up we can even do a dinner the night before as you say, I will check on a group rate which I hope implies that people will let me know as an idea how many and how much bargaining power I might have with a hotel in the area

Grapeshot · Jun 20, 2012

Responded to the wrong event and wrong time frame previously.

papa bear · Jun 26, 2012

being close to the Roanoke area, i definitly will be there. we had a dinner in blacksburg last night. went very well. good fellowship

i hope we get a huge turn out for this event. invite all your friends and even the anti's should come

Steeler-gal · Jun 27, 2012

I'm hardly able to make most events but this one sounds like something I can definitely make a point to attend.
:banana: :monkey :banana: :monkey

ed · Jul 12, 2012

Roanoke News regarding our picnic...

http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/311465

Grapeshot · Jul 12, 2012

ed said:
http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/311465

English Grammar 101 - subordinate clauses. Apparently this is not a prerequisite course for county attorneys.

"as expressly prohibited by statute" is subordinate to and modifies "No person shall within a park use, carry or possess firearms".

The word "as" in this case is not a preposition (pre-position), but rather a postposition modifying the complement "no person shall".

Conclusion by grammatical rule: The ordinance is erroneously stated and therefore invalid. There is no confusion on that.

The statute does not expressly allow the county to state "no person shall within a park, carry or possess firearms" even if they modify it after the fact. POF - they are forbidden to take any administrative action related to this. That would include posting signs that such was/is legal.

The General Assembly's directive is clear - HANDS OFF. The county has chosen to ignore that, instead redirecting with the objection that they are saying the same thing - they are not.

So is the county part of the problem or part of the solution?

TFred · Jul 13, 2012

I'm just curious, why are we playing picnic games with Roanoke County? The mere existence of the ordinance on their books violates 15.2-915, as there is no section in the Code of Virginia that expressly authorizes the statute that the County has written.

This should be open and shut in front of a judge.

TFred

skidmark · Jul 13, 2012

TFred said:
I'm just curious, why are we playing picnic games with Roanoke County? The mere existence of the ordinance on their books violates 15.2-915, as there is no section in the Code of Virginia that expressly authorizes the statute that the County has written.

This should be open and shut in front of a judge.

TFred

It has nothing to do with 15.2-915, according to Roanoke County.

The County ordinance:

15-8 (6) Hunting and firearms. ... No person shall within a park use, carry or possess firearms, ammunition or combinations thereof, as expressly prohibited by statute, or air rifles, spring guns, pellet guns, paintball guns, bow and arrows, slings or any other forms of weapons potentially dangerous to wildlife and to human safety or any instrument that can be loaded with and fire blank cartridges, or any kind of trapping device ....

They claim that the phrase

as expressly prohibited by statute

removes any conflict with 15.2-915 because 15.2-915 indicates they cannot prohibit firearms, ammunition or combinations thereof because of the passage of 15.2-915 but they can control all the other items and it was easier to just insert the five-word phrase than to delete the five word list that 15.2-915 prevents them from regulating.

Seriously, asks Roanoke County, what's the difficulty in understanding that?

Of course, nobody seems to care that

or any instrument that can be loaded with and fire blank cartridges

is also under the rubric of 15.2-915.

stay safe.

FoxtrotDelta · Jul 13, 2012

skidmark said:
I just saw this

http://www.roanokecountyva.gov/facilities.aspx?search=1&CID=4&RID=23&Page=detail

7/24/2012
2:00 PM

They'll spend taxpayer dollars to get kids to come and practice headshots, but get all knotted up about us walking around not bothering anybody and certainly not pointing guns at anyone, let alone actually shooting anyone.

Roanoke County admits Zombies exist, sets up practice on how to defend yourself from Zombies, but will not allow you to carry a means of defense against Zombies. In the words of Private Cowboy (Full Metal Jacket for those of you who don't know):

stay safe.

Click to expand...

That's awesome u know they are actually violating the regulations as well.
"15-8 (6) Hunting and firearms. ... No person shall within a park use, carry or possess firearms, ammunition or combinations thereof, as expressly prohibited by statute, or air rifles, spring guns, pellet guns, paintball guns, bow and arrows, slings or any other forms of weapons potentially dangerous to wildlife and to human safety or any instrument that can be loaded with and fire blank cartridges, or any kind of trapping device ..."

Some Nerf guns are rifles and all Nerf guns are air powered so therefore Nerf rifles are air rifles and therefore "prohibited" in the park.

FoxtrotDelta · Jul 14, 2012

I took the liberty of letting them know about the "violation" that is the Humans vs. Zombies event and included my email below for your amusement.

"Good Morning,

I would like to inform you that your event "Humans vs. Zombies" at Green Hill Park is unlawful according to county ordnance.

"15-8 (6) Hunting and firearms. ... No person shall within a park use, carry or possess firearms, ammunition or combinations thereof, as expressly prohibited by statute, or air rifles, spring guns, pellet guns, paintball guns, bow and arrows, slings or any other forms of weapons potentially dangerous to wildlife and to human safety or any instrument that can be loaded with and fire blank cartridges, or any kind of trapping device ..."

Some Nerf guns are rifles and all Nerf guns are air powered so therefore Nerf rifles are air rifles, in addition Nerf darts are not biodegradable and the wildlife or small children could potentially choke and die if they try to consume the darts therefore Nerf guns are "forms of weapons potentially dangerous to wildlife and to human safety" and therefore "prohibited" in the park.

Thank you for your time"

Hope some of you got a kick out of that.

TFred · Jul 14, 2012

skidmark said:
It has nothing to do with 15.2-915, according to Roanoke County.

Exactly. So I repeat my question, why are we playing these silly games and not filing a suit? I am fairly sure that a solicitation for funds would be quite quickly answered. ETA: And of course after the suit was won, we would hope the judge would make them pay the costs anyway. We sure have a lot of proof that Roanoke County knew what they were doing.

TFred

cch10000 · Jul 14, 2012

Well how did it go??

Oh Yes We Can! - VCDL Picnic 7/14/12 4PM-9PM - Green Hill Park Salem, VA

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