DanM
Regular Member
A mere money settlement and confidentiality agreement would be unacceptable.
That's not what we donated for.
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Macomb Daily - Michigan man sues police for open carry harassment
- Thread starter Mike
- Start date
A mere money settlement and confidentiality agreement would be unacceptable.
That's not what we donated for.
1ADAM12
Regular Member
Did you put that stipulation in the comments box of your donation?
fozzy71
Regular Member
I didn't know we could make demands if we donated. 
In that case, I would like a Bic Mac Value Meal if he settles. :monkey
In that case, I would like a Bic Mac Value Meal if he settles. :monkey
Evil Creamsicle
Regular Member
If you are expecting something in return, that, sir, is a purchase.
A donation is just that, a donation. It was made with the belief that, if Jeff wins, it is good for all of us. And this is true. But making statements such as yours is in poor taste, IMO
ETA: For the record though, while perhaps not 'ideal', a cash settlement, for enough money, would still be a positive win for everyone, as it would still make WPD think before they act. A pocketbook is a powerful thing.
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Shadow Bear
Michigan Moderator
I did not donate to this, BUT, if this goes down with a confidentiality, then I NEVER WILL for any future endeavours.
Settlement with confidentiality = greed
Now, go ahead & flame on....
Settlement with confidentiality = greed
Now, go ahead & flame on....
Evil Creamsicle
Regular Member
Not going to flame sir. I would prefer that no confidentiality agreement be signed as well.
However, I would expect Jeff to do what his lawyer tells him to do over my own preferences.
That said, I know Jeff well enough to know that he wants what we all want, and since we know he is not really at liberty to discuss the matter until it is settled, one way or the other, conversation of this nature will do nothing but continue to get more heated as more and deeper speculation occurs over the same lack of hard facts, and all these 'ultimatums' you guys are presenting based on this lack of facts, especially when his tongue is tied, shows a lack of trust that, in Jeff's position, I would probably be offended by.
It seems to me we should give him the benefit of the doubt until presented a reason not to. Seems to be what we preach, right?
Oh and Shadow... I promised I wouldn't flame, and I won't, but I feel I should point out that Jeff has stated his intentions for the money he wins, if he wins, elsewhere on this forum, and it is anything but greedy. If a confidentiality agreement were to be part of the settlement, I am confident it would be for good reason.
Winning > Settlement without confidentiality > Settlement with confidentiality > Losing
NHCGRPR45
Regular Member
Losing a small amount of money is not going to change anything. And if they lose a lot of money it won't change anything. Put a gag order on top of that and warren gets away with what they did. IMO I believe warren needs some "assistance" with the legal way to treat people. I was a part of a "warren shake down" And saw first hand how we the "little" people are treated. Money is not enough, retraing if there was any traing at all. And a mandatory class on how to deal with people. I'll steal an idea from a friend and say if jeff gets enough from warren that he buy a nice new car and have it airbrushed with "paid for by the citizens of warren, courtesy of your Police Department!"
T1mH
Regular Member
Wow what a bunch of whiners.
I'm new here so maybe this is normal but I'm surprised by the responses in this thread. I would think any result that wasn't a loss would be a victory. But like I said I'm new here what do I know?
I'm new here so maybe this is normal but I'm surprised by the responses in this thread. I would think any result that wasn't a loss would be a victory. But like I said I'm new here what do I know?
CoonDog
Regular Member
T1mH, stay here long enough and you, too, will be able to summon the courage to stand up for your rights and not just bow down before the system.
The greater goal is to ensure that this police abuse isn't suffered by the next guy walking the streets of Warren. Accepting a settlement with no admission of wrong-doing and no plan by the Warren PD to retrain on open carry doesn't serve that goal. When you reach a certain number of years, you'll realize that there are more important issues than accepting the first monetary offer that allows "The Man" to sweep it under the rug. Make "The Man" admit his mistake publicly--as any real man would--and make him change his ways.
Plus, it's a slam-dunk case...why should Jeff accept anything less than his demands?
The greater goal is to ensure that this police abuse isn't suffered by the next guy walking the streets of Warren. Accepting a settlement with no admission of wrong-doing and no plan by the Warren PD to retrain on open carry doesn't serve that goal. When you reach a certain number of years, you'll realize that there are more important issues than accepting the first monetary offer that allows "The Man" to sweep it under the rug. Make "The Man" admit his mistake publicly--as any real man would--and make him change his ways.
Plus, it's a slam-dunk case...why should Jeff accept anything less than his demands?
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1ADAM12
Regular Member
Just because the plaintiff can not discuss the settlement, doesn't mean it won't be published.
1ADAM12
Regular Member
What did you do about it?
Glock9mmOldStyle
Campaign Veteran
Well I was part of that "shake down" group also. And one thing is clear with Warren PD, when it comes to legal OC. As far as "they" are concerned IT IS ILLEGAL. They will find a way to molest, intimidate and otherwise abuse lawful citizens because they "don't like" certain lawful behaviors. Until enough public scrutiny is brought to their ILLEGAL behavior I don't think one thing will change in their-OUR Warren PD???
Glock9mmOldStyle
Campaign Veteran
Hey here's an idea:
Well I'd say calling people names may not be the best foot to start out on but hey, I could be wrong? May I ask what you plan to do to promote freedom? Just curious? We seem to have a plethora of "key board commandos" as of late, no disrespect to keyboards intended. They type a brave game, but you never see them, EVER, on the front lines. Maybe you will organize an outing (Park chili cookout or McDonald's Lunch etc..) in your area T1mH, or a similar event? .... That would be great to see
I do agree with your sentiments though, if they are: we need more action and less typing
Well I'd say calling people names may not be the best foot to start out on but hey, I could be wrong? May I ask what you plan to do to promote freedom? Just curious? We seem to have a plethora of "key board commandos" as of late, no disrespect to keyboards intended. They type a brave game, but you never see them, EVER, on the front lines. Maybe you will organize an outing (Park chili cookout or McDonald's Lunch etc..) in your area T1mH, or a similar event? .... That would be great to see
I do agree with your sentiments though, if they are: we need more action and less typing
Onnie
Regular Member
i agree we are a bunch of winers, by the way, i like cheese with my wine please!!! wahhhhhh!
T1mH
Regular Member
I apologize to the whiners I was out of line.Well I'd say calling people names may not be the best foot to start out on but hey, I could be wrong? May I ask what you plan to do to promote freedom? Just curious? We seem to have a plethora of "key board commandos" as of late, no disrespect to keyboards intended. They type a brave game, but you never see them, EVER, on the front lines. Maybe you will organize an outing (Park chili cookout or McDonald's Lunch etc..) in your area T1mH, or a similar event? .... That would be great to see
I do agree with your sentiments though, if they are: we need more action and less typing
I have not yet had the opportunity to attend an event much less organize one. I only found out a couple months ago that open carry was legal in Michigan and have had my CPL for almost 2 weeks. Maybe tomorrow will be the day I carry a gun, I'm working up to it.
Shadow Bear
Michigan Moderator
Ummm, yes, it does. If there is a confidentiality agreement, the settlement will not be made public.
There was a similar case recently in Grand Haven; someone had to search through Grand Havens expenditures to find a check to the plaintiff to at least know the size of the settlement.
Shadow Bear
Michigan Moderator
Greed may have been too strong a sentiment, I agree. Forgive my passion of the moment.
Money's great, but if it has to be used to fight the same battle over (and over) again, its a waste.
Anything less than a public admission of guilt, or a court verdict indicating guilt, is a loss, though.
It must be decisive! There is no good reason for confidentiality. Confidentiality = complicity.
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Glock9mmOldStyle
Campaign Veteran
Makes sense to me, start out slow with baby steps. I see you are on the west side of the state. You may want to PM Autosurgeon {MOC Western MI Coordinator} He organizes some pretty cool things, including a annual OC motorcycle ride. It is always easier to start OCing with others vs going it solo, in my opinion.
Carry on
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Evil Creamsicle
Regular Member
And here again, I agree with you. I was only making the point that we should not make assumptions about the situation until information can be provided. When one assumes, they make an 'ass' out of 'u' and 'me'
Not a victory, per se, but yes, that was the point I was making as well. Maybe it wasn't clear, I want what you guys want, and with the case the way it is, it shouldn't be a problem, but with the legal system the way it is, especially in that city, one never knows. Which is why I said I would expect Jeff to listen to his lawyer, and would not fault him for doing so, regardless of what I would like to happen.
This appears to need clarification for the sake of Shadow Bear
Just because the plaintiff can not discuss the settlement at this current point in time, ie. while the case is still active and pending decision, doesn't mean it won't be published upon completion of court proceedings and after a verdict is rendered.
The shake down occurred because of an attempt to correct an injustice. You do the same, while being stared down by a dozen Warren police officers waiting for even the slightest reason to draw on you, and see how you fare. A shootout with the Warren police was not in 'the best interests of OCers'.
1ADAM12
Regular Member
My question was more as to what he did to take corrective action in response to his being "shaken down". Jeff sued when he got shaken down. This guy apparently did nothing. Big difference. It's easy to sit and criticize Jeff. But there seems to be very very very few that have done squat when faced with an adverse police encounter. Jeff did. And everyone is crawling out from under the woodwork to tell him what he's done wrong or should be doing. But they can't speak from a position of experience to substantiate their directives.
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